shiraz1

I think you are confused about what an Orthodox Jew is, or isn't.

shiraz1

You seem to think that, for example Julia Neuberger is more British than Jonathan Sacks, she is Reform, he is Orthodox, or that Michael Howard,former Tory leader is not British and is the cultural equivalent of a Wahhabist, or did he become more British by attending a Liberal Synagogue after an Orthodox upbringing?
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and put it down to ignorance.

shiraz1

"Glasgow Catholics are ethnically British (Scots to be exact) "

Irish largely.

And don't forget the Italians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Scots

shiraz1

I guess it's a sexist census too, as it asks what gender people are.
And ageist

Meow

It's not that simple, as I am sure we all know. One of the great things about the UK is there is freedom of religion. You can worship how you wish, but it's not unreasonable to expect people to fit in with the general behaviours and practices of British society.

In the case of most Jews in the UK, their religion is something that they just get on with. They don't tend to demand a whole of load of special treatment or to want to make everyone else fit in with them. Jewish schools exist, but they are private. The ultra frum Hassidim are not representative of the average Jew in the UK and both many from both liberal and orthodox groups find them a bit strange.

With the rise of Nazism in the 30's many European Jews moved to the UK and a great many either changed or anglicised their names as they wanted to assimilate. Most kept their religion, but also stayed in the UK and viewed themselves as Brits of European origin. I was lucky enough to have a lot of older people like that as clients and they were all interesting people.

It seems to many people in the UK, that a good number of Muslims want special treatment and that is what annoys them. I really don't think most are bothered by mosques or the sale of halal meat (provided labelled), but they do object to demands to fit in with what is viewed as an alien religion.

I am not saying all Muslims in the UK are like that in a probably futile attempt to try and stop someone with their own agenda twisting my words and I am quite sure that most are delighted with the freedoms the UK offers and wouldn't want to change things.

It's the same story everywhere, the outspoken minority spoils things for the majority. I had friends of all religions in the UK and everyone got long just fine, making allowances for others. I worked for a firm of Jewish accountants who employed loads of Muslims and Hindus, amongst others and everyone went to the company Christmas party. There was no issue with not drinking and it just made things more interesting. What a shame more people can't behave that way, keeping their beliefs largely private and being tolerant of others.

shiraz1

"Jewish schools exist, but they are private. "

There are 42 Jewish state schools

"The ultra frum Hassidim are not representative of the average Jew in the UK and both many from both liberal and orthodox groups find them a bit strange."

I think thats who Norm was referring to as Orthodox

Meow

If there are as many as 42 I stand corrected as I have only come across private ones. Funny how we don't hear complaints about them in the press in the same as as certain other ones.

Is your agenda simply to disagree with everything anyone posts, or do you have an actual point of view of your own? You are posting like the uber negative scot47. Debate and discussion is good. Just moaning and criticising is no fun at all.

shiraz1

My point is that the entire basis of this thread, which is that Britain is down the tubes because the cops caught up with Max Clifford forty years on is bollocks.
British society compared to the 70's, when these crimes were committed is generally much safer for children (look at the child homicide rates, 40% down since 1976 from memory)



https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...N0FIDiIST8OQiw

Overall therefore, we can state unequivocally that the
possible abuse deaths in England & Wales have fallen
substantially, and significantly more than many other
countries.

As for UKIP, well people complaining about immigrants and new houses being built near them is nothing new, particularly among people who want new houses built in Spain for them to move to.Where they will of course become fluent in Spanish

Racism and assimilation in the UK are generally good news stories, and the period of Enoch Powell and the NF wasn't the Good Old Days,as some would like to believe.

redShark

But he did not believe in the principle of The end justify the means, therefore he didnt commit a wholesale killings of women children as others had done. Neither did he believe that Muslims are favoured by God because they are genetically superior to the rest of the human beings as some other religion preaches
There is one point, however, I do agree with you on and that is, inviting Islam to your country can spell a real culture disaster or a culture suicide as you put it. Because Islam and logical minds is an explosive mixture, as history have shown time and time again that this religion has an incredible power of winning the hearts and the minds of the human beings

mikewot

seriously? So where did the Picts come from?

mikewot

Islam and logic do not belong in the same sentence. But you are a gift that keeps on giving

NorthernLad

Corrected that for you.

Meow

So not compatible at all is what you are saying. Exactly what we've been telling you all along.

Thank you for conceding.

Meow

And back to those UKIP gits...

redShark

Can you provide an AUTHENTIC Hadith on this case ? Remember there are literarily hundreds of thousands of Hadiths (stories and traditions written about the prophet) that were written many decades after his death but only a few thousands are authentic or near authentic, the rest are mere fairy tells created by story tellers. One of the ways to know the truth about a historic individual is to study his pattern of behaviors . In the case of the prophet of Islam for example, all his enemies admitted that he was a kind man who had never laid a fingure on a child or a woman. There was a lady who was the wife of the head of the biggest tribe at that time and who was a fierce enemy of Muslims . One day that woman ordered one of her slaves to kill one of the the prophets uncles, Hamzah who was very dear to him. Not only that, she also asked to cut him apart and bring his liver back to her so that she could take a bite of it; so much her hate was to the Prophet and to the Muslims (I am sure you know the feeling). When the prophet came to know about the fate of his uncle he greaved a lot. Years later and after Islam had prevailed in Arabia that woman and her slave were captured and were brought to the Prophet. On the ground of justice she well deserved to be trialed for murder, but rather the prophet pardoned her and the slave. That slave then requested to meet the prophet to apologize for what he had done, but the prophet told him I am unable to look at you becaue I would remember Hamzah so just go away.

Your terribly infested idea of the truth, coupled with the alchohol in the wine you drink is I think the reason for your gloomy impression of Islam

besides, I dont think you live in the same world that I live in because secularism in the Muslim world is actually on a severe decline and nothing is more evidant than the Arab spring case which showed that when there is a free election people always chose the Islamist parties!!!!