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The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Old May 2nd 2014, 6:10 pm
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Default The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Just 3 reports over the last couple of days... each and every one depressing.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...eally-2014/?fb
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pean-elections
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...on-hattenstone

to be fair, America is also horrendous...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...layton-lockett

Not to mention this region...

What a f**ked up situation.

FUBAR

Last edited by Autonomy; May 2nd 2014 at 6:13 pm.
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Old May 2nd 2014, 6:33 pm
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Autonomy View Post
Just 3 reports over the last couple of days... each and every one depressing.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...eally-2014/?fb
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pean-elections
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...on-hattenstone

to be fair, America is also horrendous...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...layton-lockett

Not to mention this region...

What a f**ked up situation.

FUBAR
No matter where you are, the FUBAR mentality is easily found.
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Old May 3rd 2014, 4:23 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Autonomy View Post
Just 3 reports over the last couple of days... each and every one depressing.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...eally-2014/?fb
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pean-elections
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...on-hattenstone

to be fair, America is also horrendous...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...layton-lockett

Not to mention this region...

What a f**ked up situation.

FUBAR
not just Britain, the world.
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Old May 3rd 2014, 6:46 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Autonomy View Post
Just 3 reports over the last couple of days... each and every one depressing.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...eally-2014/?fb
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pean-elections
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...on-hattenstone

to be fair, America is also horrendous...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...layton-lockett

Not to mention this region...

What a f**ked up situation.

FUBAR
The offences committed by Clifford were in the 70's and 80's (when offences like this weren't prosecuted)
The UKIP support base is among those brought up in the 50's.

The good old days.

Meanwhile crime is falling, murder is at a forty year low,child homicide peaked in the mid 70's, xenophobia among the young is miniscule compared to forty years ago.
The Britain of Jimmy Savile and Enoch Powell was not the good old days.

Last edited by shiraz1; May 3rd 2014 at 6:50 am.
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Old May 3rd 2014, 7:39 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Autonomy View Post
Just 3 reports over the last couple of days... each and every one depressing.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...eally-2014/?fb
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pean-elections
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...on-hattenstone

to be fair, America is also horrendous...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...layton-lockett

Not to mention this region...

What a f**ked up situation.

FUBAR
And, of course, the Middle East is the epitome of fair treatment, no capital punishment, no xenophobic rules and laws, complete tolerance of religious minorities, sexual preferences. There is bad, and good, everwhere in the world, and you will never escape it, but at least in some places things do get done about injustices, the press is allowed to report such things.
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Old May 3rd 2014, 8:01 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by mikelincs View Post
but at least in some places things do get done about injustices, the press is allowed to report such things.
Superinjunctions were a big barrel of laughs
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Old May 3rd 2014, 9:13 pm
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

A big part of the problem is that the Britain everybody thinks *used* to exist, back in the good old days, never really existed in the first place. For example, the received wisdom is that children are in more danger from sexual assault these days, but they're not - at worst, they're in equal danger, and in all likelihood they're in considerably *less* danger.

There's plenty of evidence that sexual assaults and domestic violence and all those things we tend to think of as modern problems were widespread back in the idyllic 1950s and earlier, but they simply didn't get reported the way they do now.

It's like autism - supposedly it's massively on the increase, but of course it isn't. The actual incidence of autism is unchanged from 20 years ago (or however far back you want to go), we're just much more aware of it now, and kids who would previously have been described in a different way are now more correctly diagnosed as autistic.
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Old May 4th 2014, 2:43 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Autonomy View Post
Just 3 reports over the last couple of days... each and every one depressing.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/da...eally-2014/?fb
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...pean-elections
http://www.theguardian.com/media/201...on-hattenstone

to be fair, America is also horrendous...

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...layton-lockett

Not to mention this region...

What a f**ked up situation.

FUBAR
I think I see your problem. You are reading far too much of the Guardian, which is as balanced and unbiased as the Daily Mail.

Take the Clarkson story. It refers to a two year old unbroadcast clip in which a team of audio forensics determined, after a lot of work, that they were 75% certain Clarkson used the word. This is mischief making of the highest order and is being used by the media as an additional stick to beat UKIP with (it gives the impression that racism is rife in the UK, which I believe is not the case).

The rise of UKIP has certainly got both the established parties rattled. It would be interesting to see what would happen if they achieved any measure of power, an I certainly do not see them as the panacea for all that is wrong in the UK, but seeing how previous governments have mismanaged the economy, started illegal wars, betrayed the electorate and abused the expenses system with breathtaking impunity the bar has been set pretty low.
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Old May 4th 2014, 3:21 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Fossildog View Post
Take the Clarkson story. It refers to a two year old unbroadcast clip in which a team of audio forensics determined, after a lot of work, that they were 75% certain Clarkson used the word.
BBC does claim below
Although he mumbles the word, Clarkson begins by saying the letter "n"
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-27266102
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Old May 4th 2014, 4:36 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Fossildog View Post
I certainly do not see them as the panacea for all that is wrong in the UK, but seeing how previous governments have mismanaged the economy, started illegal wars, betrayed the electorate and abused the expenses system with breathtaking impunity the bar has been set pretty low.
Why would you expect anything better from UKIP? It's nothing more than a more openly racist Tory Party. Farage isn't some kind of "man of the people" figure, he's a privately-educated ex-Tory City broker who's got his snout firmly in the EU trough. He's the natural ally of the bankers and other c***s who helped screw up the economy in the first place.
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Old May 4th 2014, 7:51 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Why would you expect anything better from UKIP? It's nothing more than a more openly racist Tory Party. Farage isn't some kind of "man of the people" figure, he's a privately-educated ex-Tory City broker who's got his snout firmly in the EU trough. He's the natural ally of the bankers and other c***s who helped screw up the economy in the first place.

Apart from being anti-Europe, despite several of their members feeding at that trough, I wonder if many of their supporters know anything of their policies apart from the 'little Britain' vileness?

In fact they have little in the way of real policies and their financial proposals appear unworkable, insomuch as can be construed from the vagueness. They don't believe in climate change despite the overwhelming evidence. In essence they are a hard right wing party with one main policy claiming to have a few others in a desperate attempt to cover up the bigotry.
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Old May 4th 2014, 8:08 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
Apart from being anti-Europe, despite several of their members feeding at that trough, I wonder if many of their supporters know anything of their policies apart from the 'little Britain' vileness?

In fact they have little in the way of real policies and their financial proposals appear unworkable, insomuch as can be construed from the vagueness. They don't believe in climate change despite the overwhelming evidence. In essence they are a hard right wing party with one main policy claiming to have a few others in a desperate attempt to cover up the bigotry.
One of their biggest problems seems to be having no coherent policy, with various members spouting out about this and that, and then others saying the exact opposite. The leadership needs to get some policies sorted, and also needs to have spokespeople on the different parts of their policies, and not Nigel Farage making all policies, speaking out about everything. It shows how they are percieved in Europe with far right racist parties wanting to join with them in the EU Parliament, OK Farage has said a definite NO, but it's still worrying that their party is seen in that light. If they wer really honest about being anti the EU, then all their members should refuse any payment and not attend any meetings, of if they do still refuse payment and vote against any and all policies.
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Old May 4th 2014, 8:11 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Meow View Post
I wonder if many of their supporters know anything of their policies apart from the 'little Britain' vileness?
I have to wonder if many care all that much about anything other than doing something about all the forriners.

Yes, immigration was handled badly over the last 15 years or so. There are undoubtedly issues around it. But seeing UKIP as any kind of solution is rather like trying to treat a headache by sticking a .44 Magnum in your mouth and pulling the trigger.

Another major problem, of course, is that the British public are traditionally so apathetic about Europe that they have little idea of how it actually works and the benefits EU membership brings. All they know of it are the standard bullshit stories run in the Mail et al about "bonkers Brussels bureaucrats" and the colossal amount of money it supposedly costs us (actually just 0.9% of total public spending) and they seem to think that Britain is the sole destination for migration within Europe. They simply don't understand how much the British economy depends on trade with the EU and how much they themselves benefit from laws and regulations created by the EU that wealthy right-wing City types like Farage would instinctively vote against.

Last edited by Eeyore; May 4th 2014 at 8:27 am.
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Old May 4th 2014, 9:35 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Why would you expect anything better from UKIP? It's nothing more than a more openly racist Tory Party. Farage isn't some kind of "man of the people" figure, he's a privately-educated ex-Tory City broker who's got his snout firmly in the EU trough. He's the natural ally of the bankers and other c***s who helped screw up the economy in the first place.
I don't think as a party it is racist, nor is it racist to want controlled immigration. After all, it is what Cameron promised (but failed to deliver) and nobody throws the racist tag at him. In fact I think it was Flash Gordon who coined the phrase 'British jobs for British workers', although that was another thing he spectacularly failed to deliver on. Too busy saving the world apparently.

The rise of UKIP is very much the fault of the big two failing to listen to the concerns of the electorate. If levels of immigration had been cut as Cameron promised to do then one of the central planks of UKIP policy would be a moot point. Unfortunately net migration has risen since Cameron promised to cut it and people are being affected by it in more and more different ways.

I also don't think that people think Mr Farage is one of them. However, he seems to be one of those fairly rare politicians who speak with passion and conviction and I think people appreciate that. Contrast that with Miliband who gives you the impression that everything he says is carefully scripted with no spontaneity and definitely no passion or conviction.

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Old May 4th 2014, 9:51 am
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Default Re: The Great Britain I know appears to be broken...

Many people do see UKIP as racist and it's hard not to when their main policy is about immigration.

The racist claim has been leveled at Cameron and the Tories on the back of stunts like this, which were very widely reported.



If the main concern of the people of Britain, and not just readers of the Daily Mail, is foreigners moving to the UK, then it's in a better state that we all think. From everything I read, from numerous sources, the main concerns are financial. Most people really don't think economic problems can be blamed on a few foreigners as UKIP claim.

It's extraordinary that people can be so narrow-minded as to vote for a political party on the basis of one issue and UKIP is a one issue party. I doubt most of their current supporters have a clue about anything else they state and I sincerely hope that this current level of support is a) a protest about the other parties and b) transient as few people really see the European elections as affecting their lives. It's the same as the protest votes being higher in local elections in comparison to the general ones which are viewed as the really relevant ones by most.
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