Gordon Brown resigns

Old May 10th 2010, 7:29 pm
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Default Gordon Brown resigns

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/p...10/8672859.stm
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Old May 10th 2010, 11:27 pm
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

It's not quite a resignation - more of a negotiating position...
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Old May 11th 2010, 3:51 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by shakh your bootie View Post
It's not quite a resignation - more of a negotiating position...
"Look Nick would you do a deal to keep the Tories out if I resigned to get out of the way?"

Shameful - and I confidently predict this shabby little piece of connivance means the end of Nick Clegg's career as a political figure of any clout whatsoever.
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Old May 11th 2010, 3:55 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

time for a second general election
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Old May 11th 2010, 3:57 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
time for a second general election
Yes - and we would get this shambles every time if they ever shamefully introduce proportional representation..............
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Old May 11th 2010, 7:32 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Yes - and we would get this shambles every time if they ever shamefully introduce proportional representation..............
Forgive me for perhaps asking a stupid question, but what exactly is the big deal with a potential coalition government in the UK? Most European countries function perfectly well using proportional representation and have multiple parties establishing governments more often than not.
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Old May 11th 2010, 8:25 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

If and i say IF Nick Clegg joins in Labour COULD this could mean a second
unelected Labour P.M.
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Old May 11th 2010, 8:46 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
Forgive me for perhaps asking a stupid question, but what exactly is the big deal with a potential coalition government in the UK? Most European countries function perfectly well using proportional representation and have multiple parties establishing governments more often than not.
if you want to see what is wrong with PR look no further than Italy
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Old May 11th 2010, 9:17 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by Inselaffen View Post
if you want to see what is wrong with PR look no further than Italy
fair enough italy has political issues, but at the same time I have trouble seeing how the british system is superior...
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Old May 11th 2010, 9:48 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Coalition governments are unproven for the British. It isn't only forming the coalition but also the governing - both in terms of winning votes in Parliament for every bill, and the Civil Service's ability to carry out the policies when they have to report to two, not one, master. British government and bureaucracy is structured to serve one party in power.

Whatever coalition gets assembled will be lucky to last more than a month.
Originally Posted by norsk View Post
fair enough italy has political issues, but at the same time I have trouble seeing how the british system is superior...
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Old May 11th 2010, 10:06 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by Ethos83 View Post
Coalition governments are unproven for the British. It isn't only forming the coalition but also the governing - both in terms of winning votes in Parliament for every bill, and the Civil Service's ability to carry out the policies when they have to report to two, not one, master. British government and bureaucracy is structured to serve one party in power.

Whatever coalition gets assembled will be lucky to last more than a month.
Obviously it is unproven and there are plenty of examples of coalitions breaking up or being renegotiated during a term, but usually they hold up fine. In terms of the two masters argument, I just don't buy it. Even in a coalition you only have one government and the whole purpose of the coalition is to find common ground which is then used to guide the policy. The Civil Service should therefore continue to function in exactly the same way as it does with a majority government. The only sticking point is whether the coalition agreement will hold or whether it turns out to be a rule on a case by case basis which will slow things down considerably....

Last edited by norsk; May 11th 2010 at 11:19 am.
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Old May 11th 2010, 10:10 am
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

The British mindset is entrenched with the duopoly of Tory v Labour. FPTP works OK where there are only 2 parties, but that just isn't the case, and more often than not we are stuck with the equivalent of a schizophrenic dictator who spends and taxes for a decade then changes his mind and slashes and burns for the next. The result? Not much progression.

Of the 16 AAA-rated countries in the world, 12 run a PR-based election system and 10 have coalitions. Furthermore, there isn't always a Centrist party in perpetual power. Germany has a left/right grand coalition and Scotland has an SNP minority government.

We Brits gave a lot to the world...parliamentary democracy, technology, sport...we just have to accept that in many cases other countries have taken our inventions and improved them.
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Old May 11th 2010, 12:20 pm
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by norsk View Post
Forgive me for perhaps asking a stupid question, but what exactly is the big deal with a potential coalition government in the UK? Most European countries function perfectly well using proportional representation and have multiple parties establishing governments more often than not.
Coalition means weak, wishy-washy, bit-of-this, bit-of-that government. The reason the US and the UK have the strongest democracies in the world is precisely because they have a FPTP system.

There's another reason - we now have the right to elect who we want to represent us locally. In a PR-based candidate list system, the seats are allocated afterwards. An MP from, say, Southampton might find himself representing a constituency nowhere near there. This happens a lot in many coalition-governed countries.

My view of democracy at its best is that good or bad policies are less important than definite policies.
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Old May 11th 2010, 3:23 pm
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Coalition means weak, wishy-washy, bit-of-this, bit-of-that government. Is that any better than what we've had for the past 20 years or so? The reason the US and the UK have the strongest democracies in the world is precisely because they have a FPTP system. But the point isn'about stong democracies for democracy's sake--its effective government representing the people's views. LibDems got 32% of the votes and 9% of the seats--how's that democracy?

There's another reason - we now have the right to elect who we want to represent us locally. In a PR-based candidate list system, the seats are allocated afterwards. An MP from, say, Southampton might find himself representing a constituency nowhere near there. This happens a lot in many coalition-governed countries. And I say down with parochialism. Its as divisive as racism.

My view of democracy at its best is that good or bad policies are less important than definite policies. = The road to Hell is paved with good intentions.
Resigns or re-signs?
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Old May 11th 2010, 3:36 pm
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Default Re: Gordon Brown resigns

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Coalition means weak, wishy-washy, bit-of-this, bit-of-that government. The reason the US and the UK have the strongest democracies in the world is precisely because they have a FPTP system.

There's another reason - we now have the right to elect who we want to represent us locally. In a PR-based candidate list system, the seats are allocated afterwards. An MP from, say, Southampton might find himself representing a constituency nowhere near there. This happens a lot in many coalition-governed countries.

My view of democracy at its best is that good or bad policies are less important than definite policies.
Strongest democracies in the world? You mean, best at bending over for corporate interests. Definite policies just get swept away every time the reins change hands for another, opposing set of "definite" policies.
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