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Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Old Aug 7th 2012, 4:00 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Tockalosh
....disadvantaged...
I hate this word as it suggests some plague that befell upon them from space. Have a mate brought up by a single mum who had grenades falling on his head while he was studying in Croatia back in 90's. He made it in life because his mum (coming from a crappy background herself) instilled good values in the chap.

These 'disadvantaged' fellas have all the opportunities of a developed country at their feet and yet they are born and die like f***ups because nobody is teaching them (and their parents) proper values. Today people seem to think that if only a lager welfare cheque and a nicer council flats are required. That's balls. In Dublin they tried mixing social housing in high end estates and this didn't make the benefactors any better. This is because social workers are bleeding-hearts and the police are soft, the liberals destroyed all traditional authorities and proper values are frown upon as 'middle class'.
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Old Aug 7th 2012, 6:05 pm
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Tockalosh
Hmm were they African Anglos scousers from the disadvantaged suburbs of one of the most disadvantaged shitholes up over ?
Bless em
When was the last time you were in Liverpool?
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Old Aug 8th 2012, 7:00 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Tockalosh
Hmm were they African Anglos scousers from the disadvantaged suburbs of one of the most disadvantaged shitholes up over ?
Bless em
It's always someone else's fault unless they are white...

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Old Aug 8th 2012, 7:03 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Desert Dubliner
I hate this word as it suggests some plague that befell upon them from space. Have a mate brought up by a single mum who had grenades falling on his head while he was studying in Croatia back in 90's. He made it in life because his mum (coming from a crappy background herself) instilled good values in the chap.

These 'disadvantaged' fellas have all the opportunities of a developed country at their feet and yet they are born and die like f***ups because nobody is teaching them (and their parents) proper values. Today people seem to think that if only a lager welfare cheque and a nicer council flats are required. That's balls. In Dublin they tried mixing social housing in high end estates and this didn't make the benefactors any better. This is because social workers are bleeding-hearts and the police are soft, the liberals destroyed all traditional authorities and proper values are frown upon as 'middle class'.
Welfare is the enemy of the working class...it takes away their desire and need to work because it provides just enough to survive. It killed the black working class in the USA years ago - the amount of crime, broken homes etc has shot up since the 1970s. Pretty much the same in the UK.

Killed with good intentions by the modern liberal establishment.

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Old Aug 8th 2012, 9:01 am
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Desert Dubliner
I hate this word as it suggests some plague that befell upon them from space. Have a mate brought up by a single mum who had grenades falling on his head while he was studying in Croatia back in 90's. He made it in life because his mum (coming from a crappy background herself) instilled good values in the chap.

These 'disadvantaged' fellas have all the opportunities of a developed country at their feet and yet they are born and die like f***ups because nobody is teaching them (and their parents) proper values. Today people seem to think that if only a lager welfare cheque and a nicer council flats are required. That's balls. In Dublin they tried mixing social housing in high end estates and this didn't make the benefactors any better. This is because social workers are bleeding-hearts and the police are soft, the liberals destroyed all traditional authorities and proper values are frown upon as 'middle class'.
nobody is teaching them (and their parents) proper values.

Why do those values need to be 'taught'? I have instinctively good values, I help people in difficulty, I don't commit crimes, etc, etc. True, had I chosen a different path, my parents would have slapped me down, but essentially my decency and good values are self-created.
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Old Aug 8th 2012, 9:04 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by The Dean
nobody is teaching them (and their parents) proper values.

Why do those values need to be 'taught'? I have instinctively good values, I help people in difficulty, I don't commit crimes, etc, etc. True, had I chosen a different path, my parents would have slapped me down, but essentially my decency and good values are self-created.
Nature not nurture, then. Exclusively?
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Old Aug 8th 2012, 9:55 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by The Dean
nobody is teaching them (and their parents) proper values.

Why do those values need to be 'taught'? I have instinctively good values, I help people in difficulty, I don't commit crimes, etc, etc. True, had I chosen a different path, my parents would have slapped me down, but essentially my decency and good values are self-created.
These are things that come with good culture.

We have had huge institutional shifts in Britain in the last 50 years which have changed the fundamentals of culture. Now parents obey their children. No one teaches right from wrong or the concept of personal responsibility. You can't spank a child because it's always horrific child abuse and you have to consider everyone's feelings...especially children's.

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Old Aug 8th 2012, 11:57 am
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Norm_uk
It's always someone else's fault unless they are white...

N.
Wow, really? You rail against illogical thinking and propaganda from so many sources, usually with much justification, and here you spout a foul race-baiting distortion of which Goebbels himself would be proud...

I have to say I'm a bit devastated by this. Just shocking...
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Old Aug 8th 2012, 12:53 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by auzdafluff
When was the last time you were in Liverpool?
2009 June to December. It's a toilet of a city and if it wasn't for the odd bit of brilliance on the architectural front then it would have nothing of value to add at all. Fortunately scousers don't migrate far from their dole cheques and so one is only rarely subjected to the aural displeasure of hearing them open their gobs.
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Old Aug 8th 2012, 12:59 pm
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Tockalosh
2009 June to December. It's a toilet of a city and if it wasn't for the odd bit of brilliance on the architectural front then it would have nothing of value to add at all. Fortunately scousers don't migrate far from their dole cheques and so one is only rarely subjected to the aural displeasure of hearing them open their gobs.
Does anyone remember the brilliant sketch (I think it might have been in The Mary Whitehouse Friday Night Armistice, or whatever it was called) which starts off with London fans and Scouser fans chanting at each other ('We hate Cockneys' 'We hate Scousers' etc) then moves on to 'What's it like to have no jobs?' which then leads into a two-way chanting session about job opportunities, training initiatives, apprenticeships, etc.

Brilliant.
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Old Aug 8th 2012, 1:08 pm
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Norm_uk
It's always someone else's fault unless they are white...

N.
Accurate observation my dear Norm

I think it was Darwin who wrote that the Irishman was only slightly more developed than the savage af and scousers are all part bog trotter so perhaps in this case it matters not whether they were white or black. They, if one was to believe that Darwin was right, are just under developed from an evolutionary front and more prone to random acts of violence in their sky blue addidas trackies on the way to collect their dole cheque

Now I am sure some of bog trotters will fill aggrieved at being compared to being a bit better than savages by the great man Darwin but please direct any feelings of mistreatment to him and not me.

I can but read the words of a man who changed the way the world thought
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Old Aug 9th 2012, 7:18 am
  #27  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Miss Anne Thrope
Wow, really? You rail against illogical thinking and propaganda from so many sources, usually with much justification, and here you spout a foul race-baiting distortion of which Goebbels himself would be proud...

I have to say I'm a bit devastated by this. Just shocking...
What a peculiar world you inhabit - misunderstandings, deliberate or otherwise shock you quite easily.

I am happy to have you not like my views, or challenge them but if you can't stop comparisons to Nazi's I will be forced to think you would be better off standing on a street corner selling pencils from a cup with your inflated sense of moral worthiness and condescending attitude which is either based on ignorant or intentional misunderstanding of my posts.

Do you need me to clarify my position once more on things like Nazism like I did in another thread because you would rather attempt character assassination and libel as a means to avoid debate with someone you disagree with and clearly do not understand?

N.
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Old Aug 9th 2012, 7:49 am
  #28  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Tockalosh
Accurate observation my dear Norm

I think it was Darwin who wrote that the Irishman was only slightly more developed than the savage af and scousers are all part bog trotter so perhaps in this case it matters not whether they were white or black. They, if one was to believe that Darwin was right, are just under developed from an evolutionary front and more prone to random acts of violence in their sky blue addidas trackies on the way to collect their dole cheque

Now I am sure some of bog trotters will fill aggrieved at being compared to being a bit better than savages by the great man Darwin but please direct any feelings of mistreatment to him and not me.

I can but read the words of a man who changed the way the world thought
I suppose a lot depends on how we reckon what is more developed from an evolutionary viewpoint. The main difference between civillised men and savages is that one group will use highly controlled and focused violence for what they see as the greater good whereas the other will happily club your skull with a rock for talking to his wife for more than five seconds.

In any case it goes back to some people refusing to accept personal and cultural responsibility and change their behaviour - humans can override instincts and control them...most choose to make excuses instead (blame what my granddad did to your granddad, or you're not giving me enough dole money for me to consider behaving decently etc).

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Old Aug 9th 2012, 7:52 am
  #29  
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Miss Anne Thrope
Wow, really? You rail against illogical thinking and propaganda from so many sources, usually with much justification, and here you spout a foul race-baiting distortion of which Goebbels himself would be proud...

I have to say I'm a bit devastated by this. Just shocking...
Wow. 23 posts to hit Godwin's law. That must be a new record.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
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Old Aug 9th 2012, 10:16 am
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Default Re: Four teenagers shot in one Merseyside street

Originally Posted by Norm_uk
What a peculiar world you inhabit - misunderstandings, deliberate or otherwise shock you quite easily.

I am happy to have you not like my views, or challenge them but if you can't stop comparisons to Nazi's I will be forced to think you would be better off standing on a street corner selling pencils from a cup with your inflated sense of moral worthiness and condescending attitude which is either based on ignorant or intentional misunderstanding of my posts.

Do you need me to clarify my position once more on things like Nazism like I did in another thread because you would rather attempt character assassination and libel as a means to avoid debate with someone you disagree with and clearly do not understand?

N.
Portraying the dominant group, "white people", as the victims of minority exploitation is a classic tactic completely distorting reality to deliberately inflame majority sentiment against the minority group. It's what the Nazi did against the Jews and others. It is exactly what you did with that statement, albeit in a fortunately more limited context. Your claimed position on Nazism is irrelevant when you brazenly embrace a technique perfected by Nazis. It exposes your intellectual dishonesty, confirmed by your defence of your disgraceful statement. Yes, maybe I shock too easily and at least you don't descend to the infantile provocations of Tockalosh, but I expected better.

There's a Zulu proverb that I like, though perhaps it's not evolved or civilised enough for you and your cohorts:

I cannot hear what you say for the thunder of what you are.
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