Millhouse

Big Tony is an arms dealer. Simple as that.

NorthernLad

Back in 2004 an Arab bloke in the office told me the Iraq invasion would be a disaster. ..the reason being that Arabs need a brutal leader to keep them in check. Horrific what Saddam used to do but it did keep control. It's a very emotive subject, but maybe some truth in it. Look at Syria, I suspect fat more have suffered and died in last few years than in the past decade.

Beaverstate

Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria..... The Arab spring has been a disaster.

Your friend was right.

OleJanx

The need for a brutal leader is usually the case where you have so many factions with differing agendas. The same thing happened in Yugoslavia shortly after Tito died. Simmering resentments eventually boiled over, and Syria and Iraq are showing signs of repeating history....

Millhouse

With the exception of the west, the vast majority of the world has done better under dictatorship vs. democracy. China's rise would not have happened under democracy, India will never rise and deliver on its potential as a consequence of "democracy". The Arabs certainly need a brutal dictator (or at least a rich benevolent one).

Don't forget the amount of blood spilt in getting Europe to democracy.

scrubbedexpat141

The speed at which the baddies have taken control of a number of cities means logically, to me anyway, that they're quite well equipped both physically and tactically. To achieve the former you need cash and if they've been ploughing through banks, they definitely have that too. It appears their numbers will have swollen by gaining support in the areas they infiltrate.

Of course you could, these kind of things are never down to one reason, it's always a combination of factors but the speed at which this has unfolded is quite spectacular.

Still, what do I know, I'm just another idiot on the internet pretending I know stuff.

OleJanx

Can you imagine the fun and games that would follow if the house of Saud fell?

NorthernLad

My Iraqi man said it was not down to how good\well equipped they are, more to do with the discontent throughout the country with the current government. He says they want change and this seems to be the quickest way.

The drones will soon sort out ISIS.

Beaverstate

I'm on the other side of the world but I gave a nervous laugh at that.

I imagine the entire Middle East would fall apart as we know it.

Beaverstate

Don't expect very much out of Obama.

Merely a token gesture as he has no stomach for it (see Syria etc...)

Millhouse

It would be amazing. It'll happen when we crack nuclear fusion/ fracking - before then we'll do our best to prop it up.

NorthernLad

And there we go...people now have very short memories (in the terms of history).

People in 'The West' expect everywhere else to immediately conform to their standards. This place is still tribal and anyone ignoring that is a bloody idiot.

Beaverstate

In many areas pushing/promoting democracy is a waste of time.

A good idea to begin with, but a proven non starter in most societies.

Perhaps the Mid East does need to redraw its maps along tribal or religious lines.

OleJanx

This is one of the reasons the west prop up the Al Sauds. The alternative is every politicians nightmare. Iraq is one thing, but their oil has been off the western radar for decades, but the loss of Saudi oil? Loosing Kuwaiti oil for a few months in '90/'91 was bad enough...

shiva

corrected your typo