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First Syria and now Iraq

First Syria and now Iraq

Old Jun 12th 2014, 7:03 am
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Default First Syria and now Iraq

Suddenly, or perhaps it has just become "newsworthy", Iraq appears to be heading towards civil war based on religious factions...

What has just happened in the last 48 hours is quite incredible and definitely another destabilising factor in the region.

Who are Isis - "A terror group too extreme for Al Qaida"...Who are Isis? A terror group too extreme even for al-Qaida | World news | theguardian.com

From the Guardian:-

Forces from the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (Isis) have taken two cities in recent days, bringing the total number held by the insurgents to four. In December last year the group retook parts of former al-Qaida strongholds Fallujah and Ramadi.

An estimated 30,000 Iraqi troops fled from just 800 insurgents after three days of sporadic fighting in Mosul, handing Isis its most significant gain in the sectarian clashes.

Fighters entered Mosul and stripped the main army base, released hundreds of prisoners from jails and may have seized up to $480m in cash from Mosul banks.

Isis also seized the Turkish consulate, kidnapping 25 staff including the diplomatic head of the mission. Turkish prime minister Erdogan has promised swift retaliation if any hostages are harmed.

At least 500,000 people displaced by the violence are believed to be heading to the Kurdish northern region where NGOs are scrambling to mobilise support for the refugees.

Overnight forces also took the city of Tikrit - birthplace of former Iraq leader Saddam Hussein - and bringing them closer to capital city Baghdad.

Hundreds of prisoners were also released from Tikrit jails, it has been reported, and several police stations were overrun in the initial stages. Local Tikrit residents and police now say the city is completely under Isis control.

US monitoring group SITE has said Isis plans to continue its march towards Iraq's capital, with the insurgency group promising "the battle is not yet raging, but it will rage in Baghdad and Karbala".

Isis forces have reportedly reached the outskirts of Samarra, about 110km from Baghdad. An attempt to take control of Beiji, home to a major oil refinery between Mosul and Tikrit, was reportedly repelled by government security forces.
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Old Jun 12th 2014, 7:51 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

We know where the Salafists are getting their funding from...
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Old Jun 12th 2014, 8:04 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

concerning current developments no doubts there, particularly the complete capitulation (again) of the Iraqi military. As for civil war that was on the cards as soon as we invaded 10+ years ago and has always and will always be inevitable.

Ironically ISIS is the best chance for a united Iraq assuming that the govt can actually catch its breath in the next few days and organise some kind of counter attack.

The most concerning thing is the money. Thats a lot of money on the black market I'd imagine that would easily pay for a few suitcase bombs and the **** nut jihadists to ruin Europes day
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Old Jun 12th 2014, 5:00 pm
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Wait till the same happens in Afghanistan!
Thanks for bringing them all 'Freedom' and 'Democracy'
Now I am as much against oppression as the next guy but if you look at the context then didnt Russia do a better job? They invaded but atleast they plan on staying.
Why invade a country if you are going to completely ignore its local demographics, politics, sectarian variables and install your (failed) version of democracy (if you want to call it that) and then foxtrot oscar out of there after a few years?

Stay for atleast a hundred years, convert the young to your brand of thinking, make sure they are on the same page as you when they grow up and then head out if you really want to, otherwise stay and enjoy

and I call the version of the septics' democracy a farce because of what the lobbyists have made it into now
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Old Jun 13th 2014, 3:38 pm
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

I would imagine the last thing the US/UK/Israel (and I mean the power/money people) want is lots of stability in the region. There is no money to be made from stability there, there is the risk of cohesion between muslim countries, which may be bad for Israel and may be bad for getting reliable supplies of oil. Conflict is good for business - the banks lend the government money and make big profits, arms manufacturers make big profits, companies such as Halliburton make big profits, and so do all their major shareholders. The governments have to find the money from somewhere and they get it from the pockets of the ordinary people.

If Iran can't help themselves from getting involved it gives the aforementioned monetary alliance the perfect excuse to get stuck into Iran.

This all the tip of the iceberg, I reckon. More atrocities, more terrorist attacks, more excuse for the US and UK governments to introduce more tough laws "to protect its citizens"

and so on and so forth.
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Old Jun 13th 2014, 4:28 pm
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Originally Posted by elmtree View Post
I would imagine the last thing the US/UK/Israel (and I mean the power/money people) want is lots of stability in the region. There is no money to be made from stability there, there is the risk of cohesion between muslim countries, which may be bad for Israel and may be bad for getting reliable supplies of oil. Conflict is good for business - the banks lend the government money and make big profits, arms manufacturers make big profits, companies such as Halliburton make big profits, and so do all their major shareholders. The governments have to find the money from somewhere and they get it from the pockets of the ordinary people.

If Iran can't help themselves from getting involved it gives the aforementioned monetary alliance the perfect excuse to get stuck into Iran.

This all the tip of the iceberg, I reckon. More atrocities, more terrorist attacks, more excuse for the US and UK governments to introduce more tough laws "to protect its citizens"

and so on and so forth.

If Iraq and and Iran set off again, well, it keeps them preoccupied and bankrupt too, and are a self contained weapons market not troubling the rest of the world. '79 -'88 kept East Europe above drowning level when the USSR ran out of money. Who knows? Could be happy times again for the amoral arms dealers!
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Old Jun 14th 2014, 1:06 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper View Post
Wait till the same happens in Afghanistan!
Thanks for bringing them all 'Freedom' and 'Democracy'
Now I am as much against oppression as the next guy but if you look at the context then didnt Russia do a better job? They invaded but atleast they plan on staying.
Why invade a country if you are going to completely ignore its local demographics, politics, sectarian variables and install your (failed) version of democracy (if you want to call it that) and then foxtrot oscar out of there after a few years?

Stay for atleast a hundred years, convert the young to your brand of thinking, make sure they are on the same page as you when they grow up and then head out if you really want to, otherwise stay and enjoy

and I call the version of the septics' democracy a farce because of what the lobbyists have made it into now
Good idea. The only problem there is staying on for the long haul is akin to colonialism: a dirty word to supporters of the current brand of self-destructing democracy.
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 4:49 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
Either we are an Empire or we are just idiots of get our soldiers killed for no real benefit or gain

N.
ahh but the right people did gain, significant sums of money, some of which they shared and will continue to share with those in power
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 8:45 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Heres a short story :
A thief once stole a horse from a barn. The farmer took him to court and accused him of stealing the horse but since he didnt have any evidence he couldnt prove anything. The magistrate had a hunch that the thief was guilty but he could not prove anything either. So he merely stated 'the one who stole the horse from the barn, will have some straw stuck in his beard', and before anyone else could say anything, the thief yelled out triumphantly 'But I dont even have a beard!'
.
.
I give you the clean shaven fool :
Tony Blair rejects 'bizarre' claims that invasion of Iraq caused the crisis | Politics | The Observer
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 9:21 am
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<<<@[email protected]>>>

believe me, he's no fool:

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Old Jun 15th 2014, 9:27 am
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It's a cluster **** that can't be ignored. They appear to be seriously organised, powerful and obviously well stocked financially. They are unlikely to stop at taking over Iraq aren't they...
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 10:09 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
It's a cluster **** that can't be ignored. They appear to be seriously organised, powerful and obviously well stocked financially. They are unlikely to stop at taking over Iraq aren't they...
An Iraqi guy who works for me told me it's all about the government and how shit they are. He described it as a revolution, people want new leaders and this is a short term effect.
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 10:10 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Originally Posted by NorthernLad View Post
An Iraqi guy who works for me told me it's all about the government and how shit they are. He described it as a revolution, people want new leaders and this is a short term effect.
Fair enough, but executing folk in the street seems a touch severe...
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 10:10 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

Originally Posted by Scamp View Post
They appear to be seriously organised, powerful and obviously well stocked financially. They are unlikely to stop at taking over Iraq aren't they...
How have you come to this conclusion, by the way?

You could also say that the Iraqi army were under-resourced, under-trained, and poorly organised. A US/UK doing. Just sayin' you're not wrong, but I'm not totally sure that you are right either.

Anyway, Blair tells us it's not his fault. I believe him.
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Old Jun 15th 2014, 10:14 am
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Default Re: First Syria and now Iraq

I read the Bliar article and I cannot help but think he has a hidden agenda. Obviously religion is playing a big big part in all of this and our Tony is well know for his religious afilliations. I am strongly reminded of the crusades, only a modern version.
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