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Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Old Sep 7th 2013, 9:42 am
  #16  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
The debate about the influence of Gulf-based airlines has also proven one thing - these days people are willing to spend more for better service. This explains why the expensive Emirates flights to Europe tend to be fully or near-fully booked, while cheaper (often European) carriers rarely are.
Mmm... Are the Gulf-based airlines more expensive? When I was flying my family out a couple of times a year from UK to UAE, Etihad was probably the cheapest (although they generally flew KLM because of the convenience of their living only 15 minutes from Leeds/Bradford airport).

Aside from that, you've got to consider the demographic of those flying Etihad and Emirates (in particular those two): for most passengers a hundred pounds or so difference between fares is irrelevant. For passengers not Gulf-based or Gulf-related, I imagine that price is still the major factor.
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Old Sep 7th 2013, 10:06 am
  #17  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
Mmm... Are the Gulf-based airlines more expensive? When I was flying my family out a couple of times a year from UK to UAE, Etihad was probably the cheapest (although they generally flew KLM because of the convenience of their living only 15 minutes from Leeds/Bradford airport).

Aside from that, you've got to consider the demographic of those flying Etihad and Emirates (in particular those two): for most passengers a hundred pounds or so difference between fares is irrelevant. For passengers not Gulf-based or Gulf-related, I imagine that price is still the major factor.
They are now - even just a year ago, it was debatable, but the prices I have been quoted by Emirates in recent months have been prohibitive. In fact, I have now lost my Skywards Gold status entirely due to flying with others. Ironically, Lufthansa were very good to me earlier this week.
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Old Sep 7th 2013, 10:36 am
  #18  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Emirates flights are often significantly cheaper if you're starting from outside the ME. Their are some excellent deals to be had on package holidays from Europe flying Emirates, too. Probably the majority of people we know here in Dubai only fly Emirates if somebody else (i.e. their company) is paying, or they don't have families. Otherwise, it's all about the cheaper carriers - Royal Brunei is popular because it's direct.
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Old Sep 7th 2013, 11:20 am
  #19  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post

I can't see how any carrier from any industrialised country can compete.
I would not say Air France are being entirely truthful when they blame ME operating costs, realistically you would expect the airline operating out of its own hub to be cheaper than the competition flying in there imo.
I would say they are also losing in Europe competing against other European carriers such as Ryanair, who manage to undercut them with the same tax issues by being much more efficient with operating costs.
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Old Sep 7th 2013, 11:39 am
  #20  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Originally Posted by Eeyore View Post
Emirates flights are often significantly cheaper if you're starting from outside the ME.
Yup, couple of us commented on that a while back. I'm still flying UK - DXB - UK and no intention of paying for a one way flight because it's cheaper to fly UK-DXB-UK.
Good site www.skyscanner.net
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Old Sep 9th 2013, 7:43 am
  #21  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Originally Posted by mikewot View Post
Yup, couple of us commented on that a while back. I'm still flying UK - DXB - UK and no intention of paying for a one way flight because it's cheaper to fly UK-DXB-UK.
Good site www.skyscanner.net
when I lived in Singapore I usually flew Emirates to London, but from Dubai last time BA were far cheaper.
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Old Sep 9th 2013, 8:20 am
  #22  
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Default Re: Everybody’s fault but our own by Air France unions……

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
Because (I assume) the French social welfare system, from which they can't escape, limits them to 35 hours per week and relatively early retirement. I also assume that AF can't escape from that either. So that's Point 1: AF has to play by French employment rules (including all the other employment legislation that doesn't apply in the UAE), and therefore costs are automatically higher.

Point 2 is that EH/AH's other operating and capital costs are far lower because of subsidies, absence of tax (corporate, social welfare and fuel being, I imagine, the three most significant) and access to slave labour.

I can't see how any carrier from any industrialised country can compete.
Have been looking at US data this morning...de unionised for the most part and they are miles ahead of Europe in terms of competitiveness and economics. Companies are actually setting up there to manufacture.

The solution is to get rid or seriously limit the unions and socialised employment laws. The EU is slowly becoming uncompetitive by both industrialised nation standards (well, except for Germany) and global standards.

N.
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