Euthanasia

Old Sep 22nd 2008, 10:14 pm
  #1  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Euthanasia

I hope the Mods will allow this letter (taken from the Telegraph) to remain unedited and uncensored - it brings a moving perspective to an issue which I had previously felt quite ambivalent about.........


Sense on euthanasia

I am writing my first ever letter to a national newspaper in complete support of Baroness Warnock for talking sense on euthanasia (report, September 19).

My mother is 87 and is in a home for Alzheimer's sufferers. She lives on uselessly, hardly even aware that she's alive. When she was still healthy she used to say repeatedly, "If I ever lose my marbles please shoot me."

Watching her indignity now, I recall those words and know she would be horrified if she realised the state she was in. Food dribbles over her clothes, she is incontinent and often unwashed. "Human rights" forbid the carers from insisting if she refuses help. They do their best and it is an excellent caring environment. But I know that she would rather be dead, along with my father, who died five years ago. Thank God he didn't live to see his wife of 62 years in this condition.

I feel so guilty about not caring personally for Mum, but I also know it was starting to destroy me and wreck relations with my husband, children and friends. I have made a "living will", which I wish would go as far as euthanasia. I would not want the same indignities to be my children's last memory of me.

Val Jones, Sudbury, Suffolk
The Dean is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 2:41 am
  #2  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Kim67's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 5,400
Kim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

There are arguments for both sides of the coin. There is a famous euthanasia advocate doc in Australia, Dr Phil Nitche. He's helped numerous people end their lives, there've been heaps of court cases, but the latest case against him could see him go down. He's written books (not legally available) about how and where to get the drugs to end your life. A young mum suffering post natal depression checked herself out of hospital (with the book under her arm - that staff had seen), flew to Mexico, got the drug he advocates and topped herself in her hotel room. Where do you draw the line.
Kim67 is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 5:04 am
  #3  
hmmmm...nice
 
MataHari's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,920
MataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Holland is the place to go....
MataHari is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 5:09 am
  #4  
hmmmm...nice
 
MataHari's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,920
MataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by Kim67 View Post
There are arguments for both sides of the coin. There is a famous euthanasia advocate doc in Australia, Dr Phil Nitche. He's helped numerous people end their lives, there've been heaps of court cases, but the latest case against him could see him go down. He's written books (not legally available) about how and where to get the drugs to end your life. A young mum suffering post natal depression checked herself out of hospital (with the book under her arm - that staff had seen), flew to Mexico, got the drug he advocates and topped herself in her hotel room. Where do you draw the line.
there always be people doing stupid things...if you really want to die, you will find a way, don't blame the book under her arm...
MataHari is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 5:28 am
  #5  
BE Forum Addict
 
Jeeper's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2,082
Jeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond reputeJeeper has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by MataHari View Post
there always be people doing stupid things...if you really want to die, you will find a way, don't blame the book under her arm...
Indeed.

It's almost like taking Ace Hardware to court for selling rope?



I agree it's a tough one to legislate. Some people (like the post natal depression woman) can be helped and will one day be grateful that they didn't do it. But in the case of people whose situation is irrecoverable, such as that in the first post, it's easy to understand why they should be able to be 'put down'.

Fact is......many without human intervention would have passed on anyway.....so with current laws it's not people ending lives......it's people postponing death.
Jeeper is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 8:58 am
  #6  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 13,553
The Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond reputeThe Dean has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by MataHari View Post
Holland is the place to go....
If that's a serious reply (and I suspect it is), can you elaborate?

You mean euthanasia's legal there? Or just that there is a better standard of care for sufferers like the woman in the letter?

There's a lot about Holland that fascinates me - enlightened sort of place in many ways.
The Dean is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 9:14 am
  #7  
hmmmm...nice
 
MataHari's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,920
MataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
If that's a serious reply (and I suspect it is), can you elaborate?

You mean euthanasia's legal there? Or just that there is a better standard of care for sufferers like the woman in the letter?

There's a lot about Holland that fascinates me - enlightened sort of place in many ways.
I am not familiar with the rules and regulations but I know about quite a few 'cases' similiar as the one above where doctors 'helped' the patient to end a pointless life...
Not all doctors are willing to do it, I know friends back home that have recently changed their GP because of his views on euthanesia.
There is an 'euthansie law' in Holland since 2002 by the way. Like I said, not sure what the criteria are. You can draw up an euthanasia will from the age of 16.

Last edited by MataHari; Sep 23rd 2008 at 9:18 am.
MataHari is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:15 am
  #8  
Forum Regular
 
housewife's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Al Ain
Posts: 38
housewife is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Euthanasia

A GP his job is to make people better,as we all know.
Therefore there are some who do not want to " help" with euthanasia because it is against there principal.
yes indeed some docters do "help" the patient and their family.

They will give the patient a double dose of medication which the patient can not handle. Therefore the patient will fall asleep and can die peacefull in his/her sleep.
They call this a natural death but ofcourse the family and doctor will know better.

The "fatal injection" as we know in movies will not be given.
If you want to do it the official/legal way it might take ages while in meanwhile the patient does not have a human life. Even if you have it on forehand written and signed by the patient.
housewife is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:19 am
  #9  
hmmmm...nice
 
MataHari's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,920
MataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by housewife View Post
A GP his job is to make people better,as we all know.
Therefore there are some who do not want to " help" with euthanasia because it is against there principal.
yes indeed some docters do "help" the patient and their family.

They will give the patient a double dose of medication which the patient can not handle. Therefore the patient will fall asleep and can die peacefull in his/her sleep.
They call this a natural death but ofcourse the family and doctor will know better.

The "fatal injection" as we know in movies will not be given.
If you want to do it the official/legal way it might take ages while in meanwhile the patient does not have a human life. Even if you have it on forehand written and signed by the patient.
not sure if you are talking about the Dutch situation, but you make it sound like it's a bit dodgy, which in fact it is not.
There are quite a few rules that doctors need to stick to cause they have to report every case.
MataHari is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:22 am
  #10  
Forum Regular
 
housewife's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Al Ain
Posts: 38
housewife is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by MataHari View Post
not sure if you are talking about the Dutch situation, but you make it sound like it's a bit dodgy, which in fact it is not.
There are quite a few rules that doctors need to stick to cause they have to report every case.
I do am talking about the Dutch situation.
It is not dodgy MH, it is the reality which has sadly happend in my own family.
housewife is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:27 am
  #11  
hmmmm...nice
 
MataHari's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,920
MataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by housewife View Post
I do am talking about the Dutch situation.
It is not dodgy MH, it is the reality which has sadly happend in my own family.
that's what I say...it's not dodgy.
MataHari is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:31 am
  #12  
Forum Regular
 
housewife's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Al Ain
Posts: 38
housewife is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by MataHari View Post
that's what I say...it's not dodgy.
Sorry, didn't read it properly.
What is actually the Dutch word for dodgy?
I know what you mean with dodgy but how do I translate that word?
housewife is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:34 am
  #13  
hmmmm...nice
 
MataHari's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 27,920
MataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond reputeMataHari has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by housewife View Post
Sorry, didn't read it properly.
What is actually the Dutch word for dodgy?
I know what you mean with dodgy but how do I translate that word?
onbetrouwbaar, niet legaal, ondoorzichtig, dubieus....along those lines
MataHari is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 10:36 am
  #14  
Forum Regular
 
housewife's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Al Ain
Posts: 38
housewife is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by MataHari View Post
onbetrouwbaar, niet legaal, ondoorzichtig, dubieus....along those lines
thanks MH.
housewife is offline  
Old Sep 23rd 2008, 11:57 am
  #15  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Kim67's Avatar
 
Joined: Jun 2008
Location: Brisvegas
Posts: 5,400
Kim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond reputeKim67 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Euthanasia

Originally Posted by MataHari View Post
there always be people doing stupid things...if you really want to die, you will find a way, don't blame the book under her arm...
I wasn't blaming it - but the law may and the doctor that wrote it could very well end up in prison (again). I know first hand wanting to help put a loved one out of their pain and even asked the hospice staff to assist in doing so. I was told that when pain got too bad, morphine was bumped up higher and higher, resulting in death anyway. Years on I was glad that the decision was taken out of my hands.

All I was saying is that it's a very tricky thing to legalise the taking of someone's life as there are too many variables and too many emotions involved.
Kim67 is offline  

Contact Us Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.