Eeyore

So what *are* you talking about?

I realise that the whole "short, uninformative, cagey responses" schtick is a bit of a thing among a certain pro-Brexit contingent, but it would be helpful to know what the hell you're on about just to be sure you're not making it up

Eeyore

Not sure what that's supposed to mean, but it's just a fact that there *isn't* a massive groundswell of popular opinion within the EU about leaving it, no matter what the pro-Brexit nutjobs in the UK keep trying to pretend. Sure, most member states have their lunatic fringe parties (usually extremely right-wing) that bang on about it, but they don't command any widespread popular support. Healthy EU-scepticism is massively more common on the continent than EU-phobia.

And once the ERG has achieved its aim of making the UK entirely subservient to Trump, it'll be even plainer why the EU dealing with the USA and China will be in a far more powerful position than any lone European country ever could.

BritInParis

Exactly what I said. I appreciate you’re trying to plant traps to catch me out as one of those ill informed knuckle dragging plebs but suffice it is to say I’d rather not spent the next twenty posts going off topic arguing about what you think you know about the EU migration crisis.

weasel decentral

That's the essential problem with all Brexit/EU analysis, all of it is based on what the opinion holder wants to happen rather than in depth knowledge.

For what it's worth I don't think Britain leaving will have any appreciable effect in the medium to long term, it's a pity but in the end if the EU is going to continue then it will have to survive events like this. As Britain was a country that always hedged its ideological bets with the EU the effect is not anyway as profound (or project ending) imo, as Germany or France leaving the EU.

In my lifetime I have seen only overall benefit from the EU and those who embrace it fully seem to do better, rather than the half committed approach. The shining example of this for me is on the same island how much more developed Ireland is versus northern Ireland, in both mentality and standard of living, infrastructure etc.

Anyhow I guess all my life I have heard how its all going to fail, but so far and despite the economic recession and the migrant crisis which I think are bigger events than Britain leaving, it continues.

Eeyore

Which was so vague as to be meaningless anti-EU boilerplate.

So you'll just allude to deeper knowledge that you refuse to explain with reference to specifics. Again, standard playbook for a certain flavour of Brexiter, and one of the reasons why we're in this whole sorry mess - keep it vague, broad and sloganeering and avoid any details that could be fact-checked.

scrubbedexpat141

I think even the Italians aren't daft enough to realise that leaving the EU doesn't stop boats coming from Africa.

Good point, to us it's huge but like others have said, it perhaps isn't on the continent. We've always remained relative outsiders thanks to the Channel and not joining the Euro.

BritInParis

No-one is suggesting that.

scrubbedexpat141

I didn't say anyone was or wasn't.

csdf

This must win the prize for the most opaque thread of the year. It's full of people clarifying what they're not saying, without explaining exactly what point they are making.

nonthaburi

what do you mean?

csdf

What I don't mean, is that this is an outstanding thread with lots of original content.

scrubbedexpat141

Award for the least valuable and worthwhile contribution to a thread award goes to..........

scrubbedexpat141

Another day of high drama ahead from a British perspective.
Another day of wondering what all the blustering and bullshit is about from an EU perspective.

It's getting even more embarrassing isn't it. Some MPs absolutely up in arms over the deal that's apparently been drafted....so angry that none will resign of course...but angry enough that they think sticking the knife in is a contribution.
Looks increasingly likely for NI to remain part of the Customs Union to sort that border issue. Seems that it's being considered a possible option for the rest of the UK to join if nothing else better can be agreed?

BritInParis

The cabinet meeting is at 2pm today. If there’s to be any ministerial resignations then they’ll come later tonight. I’m not holding my breath. Given that it’s unlikely to get through Parliament I suspect they’ll just bide their time.

scrubbedexpat141

It whiffs a bit of blustering and shouting, for long term self preservation and positioning.

Unfortunately, it would be the same net result with any party or any make up of any cabinet from any party. It's almost an impossible task to lead this negotiation, it's scooping water out of a sinking ship with a thimble with holes in.