Emirati women in the cockpit.
Oct 29th 2009, 11:25 am
#166
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 551
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
No, I am not running away....other than that....all that Shiva said...exactly right, I could not have put it half as nice and polite as Shiva did.
I have lived in the ME 10 years now, and if what Shiva said is incorrect (it is 100% correct IMHO), then I want to ask you....why are Expats here???? Because the locals can't do what what Expats do because they are so small in numbers? Come on man.......
Sure, there are locals who do an excellent job,but how many are there who are employed because of their nationality and everybody is relieved they only come in to drink coffee and talk on the phone, as they otherwise would do more harm then good???
How may times have we gone to meetings, have waited for god knows how long for people to show up , to then leave and ask ourselves why we had to waste precious time to listen to small talk???
How many times have we sat on planes to wait for the elect few who were busy chatting and having coffee ,to then witness the fight over plane seats?
I could go on and on....as I am sure most of us could.
All that would not be that big of a deal , if there wasn't this ,IMHO, completely irrational claim of supremacy.
I wish the lady flying a plane all the best, and hope she will be an example to those lacking all that she hopefully has.
I have lived in the ME 10 years now, and if what Shiva said is incorrect (it is 100% correct IMHO), then I want to ask you....why are Expats here???? Because the locals can't do what what Expats do because they are so small in numbers? Come on man.......
Sure, there are locals who do an excellent job,but how many are there who are employed because of their nationality and everybody is relieved they only come in to drink coffee and talk on the phone, as they otherwise would do more harm then good???
How may times have we gone to meetings, have waited for god knows how long for people to show up , to then leave and ask ourselves why we had to waste precious time to listen to small talk???
How many times have we sat on planes to wait for the elect few who were busy chatting and having coffee ,to then witness the fight over plane seats?
I could go on and on....as I am sure most of us could.
All that would not be that big of a deal , if there wasn't this ,IMHO, completely irrational claim of supremacy.
I wish the lady flying a plane all the best, and hope she will be an example to those lacking all that she hopefully has.
however, there is a small minority of UAE nationals who hate this kind of behaviour and hate what it is doing to their reputation.
Oct 29th 2009, 11:31 am
#167
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 2,675
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
There is so much fighting between the families/tribes, reputations to be kept etc....it is all very intricate and difficult....and those who want to do things have more often than not to stand back for those of a "more important"family.
Oct 29th 2009, 11:36 am
#168
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 551
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
Yes, I know, it is the same here in Qatar.
There is so much fighting between the families/tribes, reputations to be kept etc....it is all very intricate and difficult....and those who want to do things have more often than not to stand back for those of a "more important"family.
There is so much fighting between the families/tribes, reputations to be kept etc....it is all very intricate and difficult....and those who want to do things have more often than not to stand back for those of a "more important"family.
It is very sad when things like this emerge and it can only add to the negative vibes that the expats feel here, I appreciate that so many come here to save for their future and yet they sometimes see uneducated, lazy narrow minded people working for double their salary and not performing, I know that on a personal level, I get asked so many times why do you work ? you are a UAE national, the simple answer being that I want the best for my children, I want a secure future that is not reliant on the government. The other classic line is why bother coming to work you are a national no need o come they cannot fire you ................... well hot news off the press is that you can fire a national but those who dont care obviously dont want and dont need to work and they need to move over for those nationals who want and need to work and let them carry on boy/ girl hunting in the malls.
Oct 29th 2009, 11:45 am
#169
banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,611
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
No, I am not running away....other than that....all that Shiva said...exactly right, I could not have put it half as nice and polite as Shiva did.
I have lived in the ME 10 years now, and if what Shiva said is incorrect (it is 100% correct IMHO), then I want to ask you....why are Expats here???? Because the locals can't do what what Expats do because they are so small in numbers? Come on man.......
Sure, there are locals who do an excellent job,but how many are there who are employed because of their nationality and everybody is relieved they only come in to drink coffee and talk on the phone, as they otherwise would do more harm then good???
How may times have we gone to meetings, have waited for god knows how long for people to show up , to then leave and ask ourselves why we had to waste precious time to listen to small talk???
How many times have we sat on planes to wait for the elect few who were busy chatting and having coffee ,to then witness the fight over plane seats?
I could go on and on....as I am sure most of us could.
All that would not be that big of a deal , if there wasn't this ,IMHO, completely irrational claim of supremacy.
I wish the lady flying a plane all the best, and hope she will be an example to those lacking all that she hopefully has.
I have lived in the ME 10 years now, and if what Shiva said is incorrect (it is 100% correct IMHO), then I want to ask you....why are Expats here???? Because the locals can't do what what Expats do because they are so small in numbers? Come on man.......
Sure, there are locals who do an excellent job,but how many are there who are employed because of their nationality and everybody is relieved they only come in to drink coffee and talk on the phone, as they otherwise would do more harm then good???
How may times have we gone to meetings, have waited for god knows how long for people to show up , to then leave and ask ourselves why we had to waste precious time to listen to small talk???
How many times have we sat on planes to wait for the elect few who were busy chatting and having coffee ,to then witness the fight over plane seats?
I could go on and on....as I am sure most of us could.
All that would not be that big of a deal , if there wasn't this ,IMHO, completely irrational claim of supremacy.
I wish the lady flying a plane all the best, and hope she will be an example to those lacking all that she hopefully has.
Oct 29th 2009, 1:00 pm
#170
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,869
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
Thanks for joining in, Shiva, Banter.
Commander- nice picture.
Nobody ever said that all Emiratis were hard working industrious types. We are here because there is a skills gap- our skillsets are hard to find- if not impossible- amongst the local talent pool.
The waiting on a plane and wasted meetings syndrome is , as bad as it seems now, dying down. Very slowly, but it is so much less than it used to be.
I remember when it used to be the norm, 30 years ago.
Commander- nice picture.
Nobody ever said that all Emiratis were hard working industrious types. We are here because there is a skills gap- our skillsets are hard to find- if not impossible- amongst the local talent pool.
The waiting on a plane and wasted meetings syndrome is , as bad as it seems now, dying down. Very slowly, but it is so much less than it used to be.
I remember when it used to be the norm, 30 years ago.
Oct 29th 2009, 1:07 pm
#171
banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,611
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
Thanks for joining in, Shiva, Banter.
Commander- nice picture.
Nobody ever said that all Emiratis were hard working industrious types. We are here because there is a skills gap- our skillsets are hard to find- if not impossible- amongst the local talent pool.
The waiting on a plane and wasted meetings syndrome is , as bad as it seems now, dying down. Very slowly, but it is so much less than it used to be.
I remember when it used to be the norm, 30 years ago.
Commander- nice picture.
Nobody ever said that all Emiratis were hard working industrious types. We are here because there is a skills gap- our skillsets are hard to find- if not impossible- amongst the local talent pool.
The waiting on a plane and wasted meetings syndrome is , as bad as it seems now, dying down. Very slowly, but it is so much less than it used to be.
I remember when it used to be the norm, 30 years ago.
We get round it by organising another meeting as a fallback for when the one that involves the locals/Arabs falls through again..
Usually a weekly planning meeting by the expats.
Oct 29th 2009, 1:43 pm
#172
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 2,675
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
A local told me this, and I think it really explains it all in a nutshell "For us making money should involve as little effort as possible, if you can do that, then you get a lot of respect.....if you work hard to earn a living, you are not very clever".....please note, NOT MY opinion, it was an explanation given to me by a local.
Oct 29th 2009, 2:39 pm
#173
Its all good
Joined: Oct 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 7,650
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
I have heard first hand of the attitudes of some of the EK cadets - don't think they are going to be taking over the world - after all they can retire on full pay after 15 years. Also they are going straight from cadet flying to operating a 777 or similar - something that is not done in most other airlines. Worrying in my opinion.
Oct 29th 2009, 3:56 pm
#174
Big Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,889
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
I have heard first hand of the attitudes of some of the EK cadets - don't think they are going to be taking over the world - after all they can retire on full pay after 15 years. Also they are going straight from cadet flying to operating a 777 or similar - something that is not done in most other airlines. Worrying in my opinion.
http://www.keralamonitor.com/gulfaircrash.html
It scares the crap out of me. It's not like driving a bus.
Oct 30th 2009, 9:47 am
#175
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Joined: Aug 2009
Location: The Magic Kingdom
Posts: 308
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
They have benefited and those who are educated to a high standard do feel that the roles that they are qualified to do are taken by the expats, now I know there is the generalisation as to well locals do not want to work but SOME do and they are not able to avail the salaries and or the benefits that are offered to expats.
This is what put me off getting a job in the UAE, hence ending up in the Magic Kingdom.
Oct 30th 2009, 11:55 am
#176
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Joined: Apr 2007
Location: Doha, Qatar
Posts: 2,675
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
This is what put me off getting a job in the UAE, hence ending up in the Magic Kingdom. (Quote from post above)
What makes you think it is different there?
This is what I have been told...yes, SOME locals earn more money for the same job as an Expat...BUT there are loads who actually earn less.
Makes them pretty upset. I do not understand why though, as we, if we live and work in our countries, earn a lot less too, generally (there are of course exceptions).
What makes you think it is different there?
This is what I have been told...yes, SOME locals earn more money for the same job as an Expat...BUT there are loads who actually earn less.
Makes them pretty upset. I do not understand why though, as we, if we live and work in our countries, earn a lot less too, generally (there are of course exceptions).
Oct 30th 2009, 2:13 pm
#177
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Joined: Aug 2009
Location: The Magic Kingdom
Posts: 308
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
1: British/ American Expats
2: Other Europeans
3: Saudis
4: Other Arabs
5: People from the Subcontinent/ Asians
Oct 30th 2009, 3:24 pm
#178
If I have to explain...
Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Where ever the road takes me
Posts: 3,999
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
It might be also the case in KSA, but from what I gather there is a government/ National drive to pay UAE locals more. From my knowlege the salary levels in KSA are:
1: British/ American Expats
10-12 hours productive work per day with a sound background and experience in the discipline concerned.
2: Other Europeans
10-12 hours mainly productive work per day with some background and experience in the discipline concerned
3: Saudis
6 hours per day including prayer time and time spent on the mobile chatting to friends with no experience but my dad is related to the Sheikh so can I have an office and a car
4: Other Arabs
Does my hair look OK and do these trousers make my but look fat. Oops, look busy...here comes the boss
5: People from the Subcontinent/ Asians
410 employed with no clue as to what is expected or what living conditions will be and treated like slaves but expert at looking busy while achieving little.
1: British/ American Expats
10-12 hours productive work per day with a sound background and experience in the discipline concerned.
2: Other Europeans
10-12 hours mainly productive work per day with some background and experience in the discipline concerned
3: Saudis
6 hours per day including prayer time and time spent on the mobile chatting to friends with no experience but my dad is related to the Sheikh so can I have an office and a car
4: Other Arabs
Does my hair look OK and do these trousers make my but look fat. Oops, look busy...here comes the boss
5: People from the Subcontinent/ Asians
410 employed with no clue as to what is expected or what living conditions will be and treated like slaves but expert at looking busy while achieving little.
Sad but mainly true.
Oct 30th 2009, 8:00 pm
#179
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,553
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
Indeed...the Gulf Air flight that crashed in 2000, was (and I got this from Gulf Air pilots) due to the pilot not being qualified to handle the plane.
http://www.keralamonitor.com/gulfaircrash.html
It scares the crap out of me. It's not like driving a bus.
http://www.keralamonitor.com/gulfaircrash.html
It scares the crap out of me. It's not like driving a bus.
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-...1030-ho0y.html
Oct 31st 2009, 12:39 am
#180
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Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Dubai
Posts: 2,082
Re: Emirati women in the cockpit.
This thread officially sucks the big fat kumara.