Jeeper

It's not about changing his mind or even if he can be rehabilitated ....no one wants to ever see him set free.
It's about punishing him.
He might not see right or wrong...but he will certainly hate being in a cell for the rest of his days (and I don't mean a UK cell with tv's, visit rights, gyms etc).
If he's dead there's nothing for anyone.

If you want radical form of public protection...I don't think death is the answer....lock him up in a sh.it box and throw away the key......public is protected....and he is going through at least some sort of prolonged hell that the poor kid went through.

A boss of mine used to say we should lock them up in stacked cages - without toilets - the worst criminals go at the bottom of the stack.

Meow

So you think it is OK to murder someone then? And you'd offer to do it yourself?

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Hello.Kitty

it's difficult, because you have to ask whether it should be a case of punishment or if it becomes revenge. The stackable cells thing (for example) is pure revenge - such a thing, were it to exist would be pure Hell - good, old-fashioned Dante's Inferno type hell... and that's not punishment, that's stripping everything that makes a person away from him - dignity, expression and personality.

After a while of that kind of treatment, a person would have nothing left to lose, apart from his life, which he'd consider worthless anyway...

Jeeper

But if you shot him he wouldn't lose his dignity, expression and personality?

Of course there's some degree of revenge in it. We're humans....not fairy angel twinkle stars coated in warm gooey sauce.

Hello.Kitty

NO, of course it's not OK to murder someone.

I'm just arguing (objectively) that "the death penalty" can hardly be called a punishment, if you consider that "punishment" should allow the perpetrator to realise he's done something wrong and be forgiven for it by paying a price. A jail term is the price you pay for absolution of your crime in the eyes of society... death cannot do that. If you have no remorse, then punishment is meaningless.

My point was wondering whether there are certain cases where, if absolution is not sought (by the criminal) or not accepted (by society), then a jail term is not the appropriate answer.

The closest parallel I can find to it is if a dog bites a human. If it does it once, you try to teach it not to and take precautions not to put it in situations where it'll feel like doing it again... you can muzzle it, you can punish it, you could even give it a good beating to "teach it a lesson" if you were so inclined... most dogs would learn not to, but some just have that ferocity in them and given a chance would do it again and again and again. What do you do if the dog did it again and showed no signs of realising it was wrong? Do you keep it in a room in your house for the rest of its life or do you put the dog down because it's a menace to anyone it may encounter, including yourself?

I know what I would do in the case of a dog... to scale that up and decide if your'd do it to a human is a big ask.

I've said it before though... I do think you have to be prepared to watch any "punishment" you decide should be carried out for the duration.

Jeeper... all things are relative. Firing squad is more dignified that hanging, crucifiction, stoning... not by much, but hey.

"Fairy angel twinkle stars coated in warm gooey sauce" sounds like a great cake recipe!

Eva

Norm, there is a rule of law,quite clear it is too.

While Dubai has opted out of Federal codex, they do observe-very closely- Egyptian lex.
Imho,the death penalty is on the statute books as a deterrent; tho' evidence in partic, from the USA shows it fails as such.
Capital Punishment I believe, has nothing to do with justice & is the byline/signature tune of global retributionists...
It seems that child harmers/abusers/slayers are recidivistic however, so what is the answer?
I dunno.
This brings me back to a discussion on here last year about Baby P when someone was given pelters for suggesting that those who harm children were a product of human nature.I still believe that and no amount of capital sentences will eradicate those flawed genes.I find the concept of capital punishment alien.
It pains me to know that while the world is becoming more sophisticated, there is still an unacceptable level of child murders(1 is too many).
How to punish those who take a child's life?
This is where to legislate 'a life for a life' is questionable....
In the circumstances herein, I suggest he should be in prison for life.
Just my 2fils...

Inselaffen

he'll probably get a Ramadan pardon and then seek and be granted asylum in the UK

Victor Meldrew

..... and given an apartment to live in, a tv, internet and money for food. After a year or so he will get legal aid to pursue compensation for the pain and suffering he is experiencing having to live away from his homeland.

(I know, probably not a completely realistic scenario, but I enjoyed venting with it )

Meow

Too many readers of the Daily Mail posting here.

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Victor Meldrew

I read the Times at the weekend and also do the crossword...... do I get some redemption?

Victor Meldrew

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showthread.php?t=650808

Norm_uk

If there was rule of law in Dubai why do the police regularly fail to enforce even basic traffic laws (the "highway code" of the UAE is very similar to the UK - yet driving is nowhere near what it is in the UK. You're 6 times more likely to die here than in Europe)? Why are sentences varying widely for serious crimes? Why are members of the ruling families often immune? They have laws for sure...but the enforcement and rule of them varies...they detain people indefinately without evidence too. That's not rule of law - it's whim and influence running the show.

Most of us have the capacity to kill, murder, maim and steal yet despite our genes most of us rarely do anything worse than get parking tickets or draw cartoons of religious figures

My support of the death penalty for certain crimes is one of saving tax payers money as much as it is a deterrant or retribution - I see no reason to feed and care for someone who has deliberately committed despicable acts...I don't really care if it's a deterrant - I think it's morally questionable to care for someone who rapes children or murders people in cold blood even if they repent. And it's final...we don't have to worry about them escaping or encouraging others to do the same. Money is better spent on education and medicine.

N.

Autonomy

So your main argument is it's cheaper to kill him...

I'm against the death penalty for what it does to us as a society not for what it does to the accused.

Jeeper

...and the fact that many innocent / wrongly convicted people have been sentenced to death in the past.

MacScot

Surely, if we murder the murderer then his/her act can no longer be described as "despicable"…as we would also have committed the same said act and debased the value of human life.