uk_grenada

Duh, TIR scheme has nothing to do with the EU, what % of containers get scanned, how they are targetted - i dont care - i also dont care if the border force grows, it needs to anyway. The sanctions on mislabelling are large but there is now plenty of eu fiddling going on so samo samo...

Maybe we should make all french wine imports go through a small hut near gravesend with one man and a rubber stamp, that should sort their vile muck out. Its what the french did to stop japanese video recorders many years ago...

uk_grenada

See - just like now really, just different places.

littlejimmy

They thought they would win (everyone did, even Leave thought they would lose) and there was no plan at all for losing, there was no safety net like a super-majority for a constitutional change of this magnitude and it was all rushed through without proper planning. Cameron and his bunch did it to try and keep their party united and to win the 2015 GE. They didn't count on the right wing press turning on them and they didn't count on the Great British public taking their chance to administer a swift kick to the nads.

TheShed

That’s a decent post! Either side of the argument, it’s pretty realistic.

littlejimmy

Thanks. It's just my point of view. I don't see how getting angry with or blaming people who voted Leave helps us. They had their reasons. This whole thing has just opened up a massive wound and divided the country. It's hard to see how we heal the wound. The people to blame are the politicians and the mendacious media, IMO.

DXBtoDOH

They'll get over it.

People always do.

Well, except those who post in the Guardian comments.

Miss Ann Thrope

So did you get on your US flight without any penalty in the end?

Inselaffen

the massive wound and divided country was already there and just taped over and hidden away.

DXBtoDOH

Ah, you remembered.

It got sorted out in Edinburgh so the rest of the legs were fine. I'm chasing for a refund. BA still can't explain why the name got screwed up but the reps I spoke with have suggested a refund for the second booking could be possible we will see.

DXBtoDOH

Exactly. Blaming it on the Tory leadership is just a red herring.

IKnowNothing

Weirdly enough me and my mate (a remainer) said exactly the same thing last night in the pub (The Huddle in Citimax Al Barsha as you didn't ask).

That and only minorities demonstrate.

captainflack

Don't be a bell end. We're talking about actual imports, i.e. goods destined for the UK. Not TIR containers which are sealed to reduce/eliminate checks on crossing intermediate borders en route to somewhere else.

The Chancellor warned of “significant disruption” if trucks entering the UK are held for even minutes more

The guy in charge of HMRC seems to think there will be problems. Maybe it's time for him to go, and you to take the job?

Brexit promised simple solutions, and unfortunately it appears to appeal to simple minded people who think that all the problems are simple to resolve when the real world is rather more complicated.

I am not saying it cannot be done. It can. At considerable cost, and if the UK had 5 years or so. It would have well under two years, even if it started tomorrow. But it's not hiring customs staff or doing any expansion, hence is betting the farm on a transitional deal because if it doesn't get one, there is no time to do anything else. There is no plan 'b'.

The choices are only these:

a) transitional deal (on whatever terms the EU demands)
b) gridlock at ports
c) no deal, but UK just waves everything from the EU through, while the EU stops and collects tariffs of 40% on UK beef, etc. or more if the UK cannot get WTO agreement to its new rate card.

As Greece found out, you have all the referendums you want, puff your chest up and demand whatever you want from the EU because of what "your people" voted for. And they will tell you that its not their job to do what "your people" want, it's their job to act in the interests of the rest of the members. And the UK, just like Greece, will capitulate, because like Greece, the alternatives are far, far worse.

uk_grenada

Greece - the pigs will take all they can safe in the inowledge that brussels cant afford for them to fail. - that ones a 2 way street. What amuses me is the way the greek people avoid with great effect attempts to have taxable anything - assets income etc etc. Its a broke country with a huge number of poor people with very nice houses cars businesses etc etc.

Look at the way greece conned the eu into modernising its island infrastructure, sure there were loans but a lot of grants. 10 years ago the place was littered with posters advertising the wonders of free eu plumbing.

uk_grenada

You dont understand TIR do you. The carnet and online handling makes admin a lot quicker for the receiving authority. Goods leaving the eu will now either require this or potentially get slowed up which means potential loss of their business/spoilage.

What proportion of containers do you imagine get looked at now? I knew a couple of years ago how many left felixtowe - like every 30 seconds - you think many are scrutinised?

captainflack

This is exactly why there will be a border unless the UK comes up with a workable plan.

The only ways to avoid a border:

(a) UK remains in customs union
(b) NI remains in customs union, customs border moves to irish sea between UK and NI
(c) Ireland leaves EU, joins UK customs union
(d) Northern Ireland votes to leave UK, join Ireland.

(c) is out of the question. Ireland spent a very long time fighting to be independent from the UK, and since then it's prospered and is one of the richest countries in the EU - significantly richer than the UK (GDP / person). It's not going to leave the EU or join the UK regardless.
(a) seems unlikely, other than for perhaps a couple of years as a transitional deal, unless the UK changes its stance. Perhaps closer to d-day, this might become more likely, when it's clear the UK is running out of time and is at the point of having to do a Greece and eat sh1t, because it has no alternative
(b) this might be a good long term solution. Unfortunately, the Tories are propped up by the DUP, who will never accept it. They don't want any kind of checks between NI and the mainland, or any different status for NI.
(d) possible longer term due to demographics. Also, I know quite a few protestant northern irish who lack the zealotry of older hardcore protestants, and are very pro-EU, and hold both passports. I think at least some of those are leaning towards reunification, because ireland is richer, and the risk of a border coming back will make NI much poorer at a time when the UK is unlikely to have more money to lavish on buying DUP support.

It's a mess, but it's certain there will not be an open border unless there is a deal along the lines of one of the four options above.