Bitcoins
#16
Re: Bitcoins
Interesting that Kittycat asked for help from an IT expert, not a currency expert - which is just as well, because after 35 years working in currencies, I might lay cliam to the latter title.........
........ but I readily confess to not quite getting the gist of Bitcoin.
Actually - I think I do, but as it is a currency with (presumably) no central bank, no monetary policy (no interest rates, in fact), it cannot be legitimately described as a currency as we know it. I can see similarities with gold (which I have always regarded as just another currency, not as a commodity), I admit.
Having read a lot on it - and a few of the comments in this thread are well-informed and helpful - I don't see (a) how you get your money out of Bitcoin if you want to (the talk is of spending any surplus gains you have on another transaction), and (b) how or why it has allegedly 'risen' in value lately.
Someone will help me, I'm sure, but it has the feel of a good old-fashioned Ponzi to me..........
........ but I readily confess to not quite getting the gist of Bitcoin.
Actually - I think I do, but as it is a currency with (presumably) no central bank, no monetary policy (no interest rates, in fact), it cannot be legitimately described as a currency as we know it. I can see similarities with gold (which I have always regarded as just another currency, not as a commodity), I admit.
Having read a lot on it - and a few of the comments in this thread are well-informed and helpful - I don't see (a) how you get your money out of Bitcoin if you want to (the talk is of spending any surplus gains you have on another transaction), and (b) how or why it has allegedly 'risen' in value lately.
Someone will help me, I'm sure, but it has the feel of a good old-fashioned Ponzi to me..........
It's no different to (say) gold or housing being a reserve of wealth if you can find someone to sell it to. The problem is the market of fools is much smaller than with physical stuff.
Surely it is less Ponzi that a FIAT currency?
#17
Re: Bitcoins
With bitcoins you can retieve physical cash using an ATM which is/was on trail in canada.. There are a few exchanges - its definately speculative.
Link: http://mashable.com/2013/10/30/bitcoin-atm-2/
Im just watching on the sides but worth a punt as i believe it will raise higher as more Central Banks and Governments take it as a serious currency/commodity.
Link: http://mashable.com/2013/10/30/bitcoin-atm-2/
Im just watching on the sides but worth a punt as i believe it will raise higher as more Central Banks and Governments take it as a serious currency/commodity.
Last edited by UKCityGent; Dec 2nd 2013 at 11:35 am. Reason: added link
#18
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Dubai
Posts: 3,467
Re: Bitcoins
So anybody punted?
My mate is kicking himself as he nearly bought 500 quids worth of Bitcoins when they first came out years ago. Would have been several million by now. Ha!
As for punting I have a few (literally) Litecoins - these are similar to Bitcoins but trading around $35-$45 not $950. I also have about 50,500 Infinite coins. These go for **** all at the minute and are quite honestly a out and out gamble.
My mate is kicking himself as he nearly bought 500 quids worth of Bitcoins when they first came out years ago. Would have been several million by now. Ha!
As for punting I have a few (literally) Litecoins - these are similar to Bitcoins but trading around $35-$45 not $950. I also have about 50,500 Infinite coins. These go for **** all at the minute and are quite honestly a out and out gamble.
#20
Re: Bitcoins
Its bad to trade in for goods right now, especially for a buyer. As one coin (for example) for a dress might be $200 today but $300 tomorrow. So it doesn't make sense.
If it stabilises it is an interesting alternative. One further thing is that it is finite, so once all the coins are 'mined' so to speak then there are no others, it is not possible to go out and print some more (like they are doing with dollars etc).
There will be other attempts at this with other systems which might be more stable, but the key is reputation.
If I was to give you $100 dollars or 21,500 Yemeni Rials for example as a choice (both are worth the same) you would take the dollars simply on reputation and image of being a stable, universally accepted currency.
If it stabilises it is an interesting alternative. One further thing is that it is finite, so once all the coins are 'mined' so to speak then there are no others, it is not possible to go out and print some more (like they are doing with dollars etc).
There will be other attempts at this with other systems which might be more stable, but the key is reputation.
If I was to give you $100 dollars or 21,500 Yemeni Rials for example as a choice (both are worth the same) you would take the dollars simply on reputation and image of being a stable, universally accepted currency.
People mine them or buy them and others are willing to accept them as payment.
There is a good argument to be made that not only are they a real currency but are arguably a more "real" currency than the standard fiat currencies of the globe.
The only concern with them is that they are a threat to governments and banks so will be outlawed. Ironically this will probably cause their value to rise even further and they will be quietly traded online anyway.
#21
Re: Bitcoins
I want to know where all these Bitcoin millionaires are. Over the two spikes someone surely must have cashed out and blown it all on coke and hookers? They can't all be holding them given the sums being talked about
#22
Re: Bitcoins
Probably dead, but what a way to go, kind of like Leaving Las Vegas meets Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas I guess.
#26
Re: Bitcoins
I doubt anyone serious in trading this, or any currency for that matter holds their position for longer than a day.
#27
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: Bitcoins
I'm sure lots of people have made money from buying/selling it but if I were a small business; I wouldn't want to accept it I don't think.
EG; I sell you a coffee cup online.
I bought coffee cup for £1. (Let's say I couldn't use bitcoins to buy it)
I sell the cup to you for 1 bitcoin (which let's say = £2).
I sell another to someone else for £2 of 'real' currency.
Now, in a week my bitcoin might be worth £3 or £5. Then I'm laughing, I can buy 3 or 5 more coffee cups to flog.
BUT, it could equally be worth £0.10 and I'm now -£0.90.
Up until now people couldn't lose almost, by buying them and hanging on for a few days / weeks to flog on. I expect though, that big businesses see it as risky and they have good enough treasurers to make their money work in other ways.
Small business - way too risky, surely? I'm sure some have done very well but if you paid me in dollars instead of pounds, I might lose a little, but not enough to really really hurt, barring catastrophe.
#28
Re: Bitcoins
I just see it as a bit of a fad.
I'm sure lots of people have made money from buying/selling it but if I were a small business; I wouldn't want to accept it I don't think.
EG; I sell you a coffee cup online.
I bought coffee cup for £1. (Let's say I couldn't use bitcoins to buy it)
I sell the cup to you for 1 bitcoin (which let's say = £2).
I sell another to someone else for £2 of 'real' currency.
Now, in a week my bitcoin might be worth £3 or £5. Then I'm laughing, I can buy 3 or 5 more coffee cups to flog.
BUT, it could equally be worth £0.10 and I'm now -£0.90.
Up until now people couldn't lose almost, by buying them and hanging on for a few days / weeks to flog on. I expect though, that big businesses see it as risky and they have good enough treasurers to make their money work in other ways.
Small business - way too risky, surely? I'm sure some have done very well but if you paid me in dollars instead of pounds, I might lose a little, but not enough to really really hurt, barring catastrophe.
I'm sure lots of people have made money from buying/selling it but if I were a small business; I wouldn't want to accept it I don't think.
EG; I sell you a coffee cup online.
I bought coffee cup for £1. (Let's say I couldn't use bitcoins to buy it)
I sell the cup to you for 1 bitcoin (which let's say = £2).
I sell another to someone else for £2 of 'real' currency.
Now, in a week my bitcoin might be worth £3 or £5. Then I'm laughing, I can buy 3 or 5 more coffee cups to flog.
BUT, it could equally be worth £0.10 and I'm now -£0.90.
Up until now people couldn't lose almost, by buying them and hanging on for a few days / weeks to flog on. I expect though, that big businesses see it as risky and they have good enough treasurers to make their money work in other ways.
Small business - way too risky, surely? I'm sure some have done very well but if you paid me in dollars instead of pounds, I might lose a little, but not enough to really really hurt, barring catastrophe.
Dollar versus euro has probably swung 25% over the last 4 years, that is certainly enough to wipe out any business with a currency risk.
You are missing the point with your example (It reminds me of primary school maths questions), the bitcoin would be transferred to your currency at the point of sale if it was set up like that. Exactly as if I bought the coffee with euros in England, they would convert it to the exact sterling rate at that instant. If you choose to hold the euros (or bitcoins) for longer than that, it is only then you assume the rate change risk.
#29
Account Closed
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 0
Re: Bitcoins
It's not about using it, its purely about trading on an exchange for profit. I doubt anyone is using now for actual purchases. Maybe it will settle down to that at some point in the future like before.
Dollar versus euro has probably swung 25% over the last 4 years, that is certainly enough to wipe out any business with a currency risk.
You are missing the point with your example (It reminds me of primary school maths questions), the bitcoin would be transferred to your currency at the point of sale if it was set up like that. Exactly as if I bought the coffee with euros in England, they would convert it to the exact sterling rate at that instant. If you choose to hold the euros (or bitcoins) for longer than that, it is only then you assume the rate change risk.
Dollar versus euro has probably swung 25% over the last 4 years, that is certainly enough to wipe out any business with a currency risk.
You are missing the point with your example (It reminds me of primary school maths questions), the bitcoin would be transferred to your currency at the point of sale if it was set up like that. Exactly as if I bought the coffee with euros in England, they would convert it to the exact sterling rate at that instant. If you choose to hold the euros (or bitcoins) for longer than that, it is only then you assume the rate change risk.
People are making a fortune in trading it, or perhaps have been. There are definitely some people who accept it as payment and I'm just amazed as it seems to be quite a big risk.
If I create an invoice tomorrow for QAR then it's taken at the rate when it's paid, obviously. I thought that bitcoins were traded via a virtual purse, rather than a paypal with direct link to bank accounts and converted from bitcoin to your currency on arrival etc?
#30
Re: Bitcoins
My buddy has been mining Litecoins, says Bitcoins take too much computing power and time.