Anyone lived in the US?
Sep 13th 2017, 1:00 pm
#18
I still dont believe it..
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
I have one observation on americans - well texans really who love to tell that this is different to being american.
Individually, almost all texans are charming people who would give you the shirt off their back if they thought you wanted it, However, collectively, they can be a bit scary. The frequent lack of knowledge of the world outside murica, 'we dont call 911', the local machine gun club, the combined bar and gun range, and some widely held beliefs about exotic religions like islam and gung ho attitude towards some furriners [brits are from observation a sort of hybrid furriner, basically quaint and safe.]
Individually, almost all texans are charming people who would give you the shirt off their back if they thought you wanted it, However, collectively, they can be a bit scary. The frequent lack of knowledge of the world outside murica, 'we dont call 911', the local machine gun club, the combined bar and gun range, and some widely held beliefs about exotic religions like islam and gung ho attitude towards some furriners [brits are from observation a sort of hybrid furriner, basically quaint and safe.]
Sep 13th 2017, 1:04 pm
#19
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Sep 13th 2017, 1:21 pm
#20
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
Just wondering. Not saying I'm eager to move there after spending a week in the US. When you're going to a posh wedding weekend in pretty environs that's always distorting the reality. I've spent enough time in the US that if you cobble it together it adds up to about a year but living there on a day to day basis is surely a different thing, no?
If you lived in the US what was it like compared to the UK (or since I should keep this thread relevant to the forum, the Middle East?)
So far I've observed the following:
1. US food is tasty but portions are disgustingly huge. Even at nice places and I ate at nice places just about all the time.
2. Scale of everything is bigger. Houses, buildings, cars, people. Even normal suburban houses could be enormous.
3. A lot of surprisingly ugly stuff. Most of NYC is, when you get down to it, ugly. Their suburbs sprawl everywhere endlessly. Much of their countryside is unremarkable although they do have spectacular scenery in places.
4. Plenty of Americans don't fit the stereotype of loud and crass. Many are better mannered and educated than most Brits or Europeans.
5. Americans are very insular. Even when watching US national broadcasts you get the impression the world outside US borders is a fuzzy grey area that should properly be labelled here be dragons.
6. 99.5% of Americans have no idea who the PM is. Even Harvard educated people and I met a few at the wedding (the groom went to Harvard).
7. Despite the media racial relationships seem pretty easygoing.
8. Much more socially divided than you might think. I think in its way America is worse than the UK. Americans pretend they aren't but outsiders can clearly see the social divides in American society.
9. Everything is cheaper. Except health care.
10. Clothes shopping is cheaper but variety is much less. All their better clothing are just variations of Polo and dull.
11. Infrastructure (roads, airports, trains) are mediocre. Ok, not third world but surprisingly well below what you'd expect.
Anything else?
If you lived in the US what was it like compared to the UK (or since I should keep this thread relevant to the forum, the Middle East?)
So far I've observed the following:
1. US food is tasty but portions are disgustingly huge. Even at nice places and I ate at nice places just about all the time.
2. Scale of everything is bigger. Houses, buildings, cars, people. Even normal suburban houses could be enormous.
3. A lot of surprisingly ugly stuff. Most of NYC is, when you get down to it, ugly. Their suburbs sprawl everywhere endlessly. Much of their countryside is unremarkable although they do have spectacular scenery in places.
4. Plenty of Americans don't fit the stereotype of loud and crass. Many are better mannered and educated than most Brits or Europeans.
5. Americans are very insular. Even when watching US national broadcasts you get the impression the world outside US borders is a fuzzy grey area that should properly be labelled here be dragons.
6. 99.5% of Americans have no idea who the PM is. Even Harvard educated people and I met a few at the wedding (the groom went to Harvard).
7. Despite the media racial relationships seem pretty easygoing.
8. Much more socially divided than you might think. I think in its way America is worse than the UK. Americans pretend they aren't but outsiders can clearly see the social divides in American society.
9. Everything is cheaper. Except health care.
10. Clothes shopping is cheaper but variety is much less. All their better clothing are just variations of Polo and dull.
11. Infrastructure (roads, airports, trains) are mediocre. Ok, not third world but surprisingly well below what you'd expect.
Anything else?
7. That's kinda true, but the US population is very compartmentized, not only racially. Most crime is internal to one of the compartments, so a scarily high homicide rate is easy to tolerate when the chances of being attacked is low, .... unless you are attacked by a member of your own family, or are in one of the "high crime compartments", of course.
9. There are options to manage how much you pay for healthcare, but yes, it is expensive. You also forgot "groceries" - the cost of buying food and household consumables is surprisingly high. Over on the US forum we usually tell newbies to expect to pay about $250/person/mth.
My brother lives in the US, married about 2 years ago. He lives in North Carolina. Like much of the US, there are two types of people:
1. gun toting, bible thumping, Rush Limbaugh loving, flag waving zealots who think muslims are satanic, atheists are worse, and that America is a special country chosen by god to do god's work
2. Sane people who own a passport, have relatively liberal views, and are embarrassed and scared by the proportion of number 1s they're surrounded by. .....
1. gun toting, bible thumping, Rush Limbaugh loving, flag waving zealots who think muslims are satanic, atheists are worse, and that America is a special country chosen by god to do god's work
2. Sane people who own a passport, have relatively liberal views, and are embarrassed and scared by the proportion of number 1s they're surrounded by. .....
Lived in Texas for a year, it was ok, I was happy enough living there but wasn't sad when I had to leave.
The food portions are obscene depending where you go, seeing people waddling out of restaurants with their polystyrene boxes with leftovers to have for lunch the next day was far too common. Some great places to eat, particularly if you like Mexican (Tex-Mex if you're one of those bores who's spent a week in Cancun and absolutely must let everyone know that burritos are not real Mexican food) or Vietnamese food.
Breakfasts there are all atrocious though. Pancakes and waffles are shit. They don't know how to cook eggs. No matter what you order, half the plate consists of potatoes. They don't do proper sausages, you either get a sausage patty or a piece of smoked sausage. Orange, plastic cheese on everything. Shit coffee.
Healthcare is a nonsense. Our daughter's doctor decided to become a "boutique doctor" which meant she was aiming to slash her patient list by 80% and have the remaining 20% pay $12,000 a year retainer fee to have increased access to her. Even if your employer heavily subsidises your insurance, you still get a huge whack deducted from your salary. Getting paid every fortnight is a bit weird too come to think of it.
The biggest difference I found was the amount of crime. They didn't seem to just have dodgy neighbourhoods, they'd have ghetto apartment blocks just round the corner from huge suburbs, you were never far away from a street with a large crime index. Fortunately I wasn't impacted personally by anything, but despite living in a quiet and fairly affluent area, there were plenty of shootings, car jackings and the odd murder in the area. Hard to get used to having to scan the car park every time you leave the grocery store for potential muggers.
When choosing a house, the only thing that matters is the school district you're zoned too. I didn't know this when we arrived, we went for the house in the quiet, leafy street with the private pool as you would. We were zoned to the school a couple of streets down next to a dicey looking apartment complex. According to the municipality report, the school wasn't that great and only 9% of the pupils were white. Luckily my daughter was too young for school while we were there.
The things I miss most are the huge appliances (washing machine, dryer, ovens, fridge, etc), they make life so much more convenient. And the garbage disposal units in the sink are ace, surprised they haven't really caught on anywhere else. We even had a built-in trash compactor too. Other than Amazon delivery boxes, we hardly filled our bin.
Agree on the lack of choices with shopping, everyone dresses the same. Our local mall had 3 huge department stores (Macys, Dillards and I forget the other one) that all stocked exactly the same stuff - Polo, Tommy Hilfiger, Levis, Calvin Klein and Dockers.
You need to take a driving test if you move there and have a UK licence. It's a piece of piss, literally a 5 minute drive around the neighbourhood. I got scolded for putting the car into neutral while sitting at traffic lights instead of leaving it in "drive" with my foot on the brake. Driving standards are terrible compared to UK, but if you're used to the Middle East, it's not too bad. They love Stop signs and expect you to come to a complete stop even if you can see there's no traffic in any direction for miles. I got no speeding fines, but several for going through stop signs (safely in my opinion).
The food portions are obscene depending where you go, seeing people waddling out of restaurants with their polystyrene boxes with leftovers to have for lunch the next day was far too common. Some great places to eat, particularly if you like Mexican (Tex-Mex if you're one of those bores who's spent a week in Cancun and absolutely must let everyone know that burritos are not real Mexican food) or Vietnamese food.
Breakfasts there are all atrocious though. Pancakes and waffles are shit. They don't know how to cook eggs. No matter what you order, half the plate consists of potatoes. They don't do proper sausages, you either get a sausage patty or a piece of smoked sausage. Orange, plastic cheese on everything. Shit coffee.
Healthcare is a nonsense. Our daughter's doctor decided to become a "boutique doctor" which meant she was aiming to slash her patient list by 80% and have the remaining 20% pay $12,000 a year retainer fee to have increased access to her. Even if your employer heavily subsidises your insurance, you still get a huge whack deducted from your salary. Getting paid every fortnight is a bit weird too come to think of it.
The biggest difference I found was the amount of crime. They didn't seem to just have dodgy neighbourhoods, they'd have ghetto apartment blocks just round the corner from huge suburbs, you were never far away from a street with a large crime index. Fortunately I wasn't impacted personally by anything, but despite living in a quiet and fairly affluent area, there were plenty of shootings, car jackings and the odd murder in the area. Hard to get used to having to scan the car park every time you leave the grocery store for potential muggers.
When choosing a house, the only thing that matters is the school district you're zoned too. I didn't know this when we arrived, we went for the house in the quiet, leafy street with the private pool as you would. We were zoned to the school a couple of streets down next to a dicey looking apartment complex. According to the municipality report, the school wasn't that great and only 9% of the pupils were white. Luckily my daughter was too young for school while we were there.
The things I miss most are the huge appliances (washing machine, dryer, ovens, fridge, etc), they make life so much more convenient. And the garbage disposal units in the sink are ace, surprised they haven't really caught on anywhere else. We even had a built-in trash compactor too. Other than Amazon delivery boxes, we hardly filled our bin.
Agree on the lack of choices with shopping, everyone dresses the same. Our local mall had 3 huge department stores (Macys, Dillards and I forget the other one) that all stocked exactly the same stuff - Polo, Tommy Hilfiger, Levis, Calvin Klein and Dockers.
You need to take a driving test if you move there and have a UK licence. It's a piece of piss, literally a 5 minute drive around the neighbourhood. I got scolded for putting the car into neutral while sitting at traffic lights instead of leaving it in "drive" with my foot on the brake. Driving standards are terrible compared to UK, but if you're used to the Middle East, it's not too bad. They love Stop signs and expect you to come to a complete stop even if you can see there's no traffic in any direction for miles. I got no speeding fines, but several for going through stop signs (safely in my opinion).
In short many Americans don't travel well, so many of those that do have passports really shouldn't - in other words, Faulty Towers got it right! 
Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 13th 2017 at 3:05 pm.
Sep 13th 2017, 1:34 pm
#21
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
all that said... George town is lovely, as are many parts of the country. I may go there on one day but would much rather take an emerging market over the US.
I do find it all too 'political', everyone looking to be offended by something and everyone mission critical to their job - and wanting to tell you. Truth is no one is mission critical and if you're offended by something it's largely your problem. Just as I don't understand them, they don't understand me - I find the level of freedom they have highly questionable and a large gap between how they feel and the truth.
I do find it all too 'political', everyone looking to be offended by something and everyone mission critical to their job - and wanting to tell you. Truth is no one is mission critical and if you're offended by something it's largely your problem. Just as I don't understand them, they don't understand me - I find the level of freedom they have highly questionable and a large gap between how they feel and the truth.
Sep 13th 2017, 1:40 pm
#22
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
That is likely more due to Washington than America in general. DC is a very politicised place but if you go into the hinterlands or even the other coastal cities it's far less so. I have relatives up the road in Baltimore (and why I pop over to America every now and then) and it's nothing like DC. Very laid back. Most Americans I've met actually have zero interest in politics.
If you think DC was bad then London is just as bad as well, but surely from your London days you know it's easy to avoid the judgemental Miss Anne Thropes of the world
Baltimore, by the way, is a fascinating city. Summarises a lot about the US. Large parts of it is a war zone that is appalling for the richest country in the world and yet blocks away you have affluent, groomed and lush neighbourhoods that are as safe as anywhere can be.
If you think DC was bad then London is just as bad as well, but surely from your London days you know it's easy to avoid the judgemental Miss Anne Thropes of the world
Baltimore, by the way, is a fascinating city. Summarises a lot about the US. Large parts of it is a war zone that is appalling for the richest country in the world and yet blocks away you have affluent, groomed and lush neighbourhoods that are as safe as anywhere can be.
I do find it all too 'political', everyone looking to be offended by something and everyone mission critical to their job - and wanting to tell you. Truth is no one is mission critical and if you're offended by something it's largely your problem. Just as I don't understand them, they don't understand me - I find the level of freedom they have highly questionable and a large gap between how they feel and the truth.
Sep 13th 2017, 1:56 pm
#23
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
Where I was in London it was about making money - never politics. DC, the two seem closer linked. But I agree, that's quite specific to DC.
I got tired very quickly in DC nightclubs where the first questions are around what job you do, how much money you make and if you've invested in bitcoin yet.
Sep 13th 2017, 2:20 pm
#24
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
I spent about 25 years there.
I agree with most of the points brought forwards earlier in the thread.
I do agree with Pulaski that crime is "compartmentalised." You are far more likely to be attacked by a family member or a relative than by a random criminal. I feel much, much safer walking the streets when I go back today, than I did 20 years ago.
As for race relations, there are certainly racists out there. But the United States also elected an African-American President, twice. That is a significant milestone in Western Civilisation and shouldn't be minimised. Nothing equivalent has happened in Europe or the UK, nor do I feel will it happen for a long time.
What has changed, is how political the country has gotten. Politics used to be considered boring and was relegated to Sunday morning talk-back shows and the elites. Nobody EVER wanted to discuss it. Now, everyone wants to discuss it, and the media I feel is playing a very, very corrosive role in the national conversation. My own reading and viewing habits have completely turned over the past 10 years, because I feel that news is blown up into turning points in national history, on a daily basis, and I find that exhausting. I am burned out on the addiction to anger and constant demand to be outraged over everything and anything.
I agree with most of the points brought forwards earlier in the thread.
I do agree with Pulaski that crime is "compartmentalised." You are far more likely to be attacked by a family member or a relative than by a random criminal. I feel much, much safer walking the streets when I go back today, than I did 20 years ago.
As for race relations, there are certainly racists out there. But the United States also elected an African-American President, twice. That is a significant milestone in Western Civilisation and shouldn't be minimised. Nothing equivalent has happened in Europe or the UK, nor do I feel will it happen for a long time.
What has changed, is how political the country has gotten. Politics used to be considered boring and was relegated to Sunday morning talk-back shows and the elites. Nobody EVER wanted to discuss it. Now, everyone wants to discuss it, and the media I feel is playing a very, very corrosive role in the national conversation. My own reading and viewing habits have completely turned over the past 10 years, because I feel that news is blown up into turning points in national history, on a daily basis, and I find that exhausting. I am burned out on the addiction to anger and constant demand to be outraged over everything and anything.
Last edited by carcajou; Sep 13th 2017 at 2:23 pm.
Sep 13th 2017, 2:28 pm
#25
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
As for race relations, there are certainly racists out there. But the United States also elected an African-American President, twice. That is a significant milestone in Western Civilisation and shouldn't be minimised. Nothing equivalent has happened in Europe or the UK, nor do I feel will it happen for a long time.
I think you'll just find that we don't brag on about it/and look at the person rather than the race, especially in Northern Europe. Our new Taoiseach in Ireland is half-Indian and gay but it's seen as normal.
Sep 13th 2017, 2:58 pm
#26
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
I spent 6 months or so in Minneapolis in the late 1990s. It didn't feel American as in what you see on TV and what you expect it to be like in NYC or LA. The food was OK, tipping was a bloody minefield. I found amazing Scotch Eggs and Newcy Brown Ale on tap in a bar called Brits. The working culture wasn't too different as I was working for a UK company, apart from the heavy warnings given to be careful about any remark that could be construed as sexist. Little quirks like having to show ID for alcohol were a bit strange. I liked it in the main and wish I'd stayed. More recently I had a trip to NYC in 2008 and felt like I was in a movie.
Sep 14th 2017, 4:32 am
#27
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
As well, frankly, I am not sure that is possible in some of those European countries - even though we want to pretend otherwise about that too. Banning Nazi symbols, hate speech etc doesn't mean all that's gone away - look how many Jews are leaving Europe these days.
It was treated as a very big deal when Cenk Uygur was elected co-leader of the German Greens a few years ago - they called him their Obama - and that was just a co-leadership of a minor party with no real shot ever at the Chancellor's position.
But I didn't post that to start a thread drift.
Last edited by carcajou; Sep 14th 2017 at 4:37 am.
Sep 14th 2017, 7:00 am
#28
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
I disagree completely. If a non-white, second-generation European with parents from, say, Congo, Turkey or Pakistan got within reach of the French Presidency, German Chancellorship or Italian Prime Ministership - it would be a huge deal and would be treated as such - not as "normal," nothing to see here. Though I understand how at times we want to pretend otherwise.
As well, frankly, I am not sure that is possible in some of those European countries - even though we want to pretend otherwise about that too. Banning Nazi symbols, hate speech etc doesn't mean all that's gone away - look how many Jews are leaving Europe these days.
It was treated as a very big deal when Cenk Uygur was elected co-leader of the German Greens a few years ago - they called him their Obama - and that was just a co-leadership of a minor party with no real shot ever at the Chancellor's position.
But I didn't post that to start a thread drift.
As well, frankly, I am not sure that is possible in some of those European countries - even though we want to pretend otherwise about that too. Banning Nazi symbols, hate speech etc doesn't mean all that's gone away - look how many Jews are leaving Europe these days.
It was treated as a very big deal when Cenk Uygur was elected co-leader of the German Greens a few years ago - they called him their Obama - and that was just a co-leadership of a minor party with no real shot ever at the Chancellor's position.
But I didn't post that to start a thread drift.
Where did you hear that? For me races never existed but according to society they do. So look at the US where apparently 13% are considered Black or African American and if you consider the time they have been living there a very slow progress. Germany also doesn't have a race category. Cenk Uygur? You must mean Cem Özdemir and I don't know anybody calling him the German Obama, apart from the Bild Zeitung:-)
Still a lot more progress in Europe and you also have to look at demographic figures? If the country just doesn't have that many people of a certain race, the chances are small that a person from that race will become president. I've also never seen a white president in China or many African countries.
Sep 14th 2017, 7:19 am
#29
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
Relax. I hear you. I agree with you in that I couldn't care less what race someone is.
However - you are vastly, vastly underestimating the amount of racism that exists in Europe, and the impact that has on the social mobility of non-whites there. This is certainly well-documented throughout the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, etc.
In a brain slip I did write the wrong name of the German politician, and wrote the name of the American political commentator. That doesn't invalidate the point. When Ozdemir was elected co-leader, it was a very big deal when that happened, and both the Greens and the media called him the German Obama.
And lots - and I mean, lots - of Jews are leaving Europe again. People act like the Holocaust is ancient history. It is not - survivors are still around today, and some of us have relatives who would still be alive today had they not been murdered in it. Aside from the Jews - millions of others were killed for similar racial/ethnic reasons.
Also in the lifetimes of people still on this planet - millions of Africans, Indians, and Asians also died for racial reasons in the name of European imperialism.
Or the Balkans - that was 25 years ago - and now a few of those countries are in the European Union and others are in NATO. Yeah I'm sure everything is different now.
Sorry. This does't go away just because it offends some sense of European continentalism/nationalism that you may have.
However - you are vastly, vastly underestimating the amount of racism that exists in Europe, and the impact that has on the social mobility of non-whites there. This is certainly well-documented throughout the UK, France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, etc.
In a brain slip I did write the wrong name of the German politician, and wrote the name of the American political commentator. That doesn't invalidate the point. When Ozdemir was elected co-leader, it was a very big deal when that happened, and both the Greens and the media called him the German Obama.
And lots - and I mean, lots - of Jews are leaving Europe again. People act like the Holocaust is ancient history. It is not - survivors are still around today, and some of us have relatives who would still be alive today had they not been murdered in it. Aside from the Jews - millions of others were killed for similar racial/ethnic reasons.
Also in the lifetimes of people still on this planet - millions of Africans, Indians, and Asians also died for racial reasons in the name of European imperialism.
Or the Balkans - that was 25 years ago - and now a few of those countries are in the European Union and others are in NATO. Yeah I'm sure everything is different now.
Sorry. This does't go away just because it offends some sense of European continentalism/nationalism that you may have.
Sep 14th 2017, 7:25 am
#30
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Re: Anyone lived in the US?
Not quite sure what you're getting at? For you races never existed? Well, they do.
There's a lot of subtle and not so subtle racism in Europe, including the UK. I don't think Europeans should be patting themselves on the back anytime soon just because non-whites were practically non-existent in Europe until 50 or so years ago. The European colonial powers did not have nice racial track records in their respective colonies and even Sweden had a few slave owning colonies in the Caribbean at one point. Eastern Europe is heavily racist to this day. And let's not forget that white America is directly descended from settlers from....Europe.
That America, with its much more direct, combative and ugly history of racism is able to turn around quickly and directly elect political leaders from non-white backgrounds is to be much more congratulated than anything in Europe, where political leaders are usually elected by parties and imposed on the population, and not directly by the voters (a very different scenario). Obama may be the first black president, but in recent years two deep Southern states with brutally ugly history of racism directly elected non-whites to governorship and senator positions (Louisiana and South Carolina elected Indian-Americans as governors and South Carolina elected a black Republican senator).
There's a lot of subtle and not so subtle racism in Europe, including the UK. I don't think Europeans should be patting themselves on the back anytime soon just because non-whites were practically non-existent in Europe until 50 or so years ago. The European colonial powers did not have nice racial track records in their respective colonies and even Sweden had a few slave owning colonies in the Caribbean at one point. Eastern Europe is heavily racist to this day. And let's not forget that white America is directly descended from settlers from....Europe.
That America, with its much more direct, combative and ugly history of racism is able to turn around quickly and directly elect political leaders from non-white backgrounds is to be much more congratulated than anything in Europe, where political leaders are usually elected by parties and imposed on the population, and not directly by the voters (a very different scenario). Obama may be the first black president, but in recent years two deep Southern states with brutally ugly history of racism directly elected non-whites to governorship and senator positions (Louisiana and South Carolina elected Indian-Americans as governors and South Carolina elected a black Republican senator).
Where did you hear that? For me races never existed but according to society they do. So look at the US where apparently 13% are considered Black or African American and if you consider the time they have been living there a very slow progress. Germany also doesn't have a race category. Cenk Uygur? You must mean Cem Özdemir and I don't know anybody calling him the German Obama, apart from the Bild Zeitung:-)
Still a lot more progress in Europe and you also have to look at demographic figures? If the country just doesn't have that many people of a certain race, the chances are small that a person from that race will become president. I've also never seen a white president in China or many African countries.
Still a lot more progress in Europe and you also have to look at demographic figures? If the country just doesn't have that many people of a certain race, the chances are small that a person from that race will become president. I've also never seen a white president in China or many African countries.
