Boomhauer

There would be a drastic drop in the % of people treating others like shit if they knew they were going to face punishment, just as fear of the law curtails many actions.

Norm_uk

I don't steal things because I will be punished. I do it because I have something called empathy...clearly these people lack empathy for their fellow humans. Religion doesn't make people moral - I know of one religion that tells it's followers they can lie to non-believers. They don't all teach pacifism, meekness and love...despite what some would like to believe or hope.

I think they don't care about others because they are raised to put their tribe, race and then religion before anything else. They believe they are the chosen people and heirs to a perfect system...they also have so much without working for it. That makes them arrogant, conceited and without empathy (generally speaking of course...plenty of them are quite decent and DO care).

N.

Desert Dubliner

This is absolutely correct. I dare people to find a single behavioural trait built into the Christian morale that is actually bad.

For each such trait I will find at least five liberal behavioural traits which are highly damaging.

Btw, I am neither religious nor atheist. I am an agnostic but I find the tradition of Christianity to be rather positive especially in today's world where traditions and authorities are being destroyed to 'improve' our societies, with the results being quite the opposite.

Desert Dubliner

So let us see, you wouldn't steal $100 off Bill Gates because you feel empathy towards him??

RedDragon2008

Like catholic administration saying we dont have a problem with child abuse right?

littlejimmy

Morality is an evolutionary thing. We need to be good to each other. If we all screwed each other over, we'd be...well...screwed.

Desert Dubliner

Of course they said it. You will now provide a reference I presume.

kimilseung

It was the individuals not the church.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...lea?CMP=twt_fd

mikewot

This sentence makes no sense, can you say what you're trying to say in English because I get the impression that you're trying to say that religion is a good thing. Lets look at just the UK where religion firmly subordinates women and firmly teaches intolerance (gays).

Desert Dubliner

The sentence is too complicated for you?

How exactly is it that the religion subordinates women and teaches intolerance of gays? Is it calling for violence against women or gays? Is it calling for unequal treatment of individuals?

Desert Dubliner

Ah ok then. But surely we can paint this as an official stance.

Lets have a look at this 'logic'. Government officials are for tax cheating and some were even caught with child porn. So the conclusion is that the government is evil.

mikewot

No it doesn't make sense. "I dare people to find a single behavioural trait built into the Christian morale that is actually bad." What do you mean by a behavioural trait in relation to christians? For morale I assume you mean morals (as opposed to esprit de corps) but what are christian morals, where do morals come from?
It is blatantly obvious that it calls for unequal treatment, have you not seen the very recent news headlines about no women bishops and churches may still discriminate against gays and not allow gay marriages in church?

mikewot

The government have not actively condoned such behaviours nor moved individuals caught actively engaged in such behaviours to other posts. The RC church has done exactly that and has been caught doing so on many occassions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_C...ses_by_country

nonthaburi

My current boss is a convert . An American from Miami from a wealthy family . He converted before he met his wife ( a Saudi ) . He's a nice guy and I like him . His dad disowned him on finding out that he married a Saudi although that might change now they've just had a kid together . I saw the video about conversion he put on youtube and it was quite good . Trying to explain Islam in a simple way .

Desert Dubliner

So a one letter typo from iPad auto-correct is preventing your understanding? I don't think so. Looks like you perfectly understand. On your second point regarding the origin of Christian morals, these derive from 10 commandments and the New Testament. Most criticism comes from past observations of exclusivity of religion which resulted in wars in the ancient past, but this was at the time when wars were waged over just about anything. Today religious coexistence is taken as a norm in Christianity and you will not hear anything else being preached today. Such criticisms based on archaic understanding of Christian religion are misplaced.


Church is a voluntary organisation and as such is entitled to its own practices. If gays want to marry, they have civil options available. I don't go to London Cricket Club and insist I play Gaelic Football.