Ajeeb

No, not at all britexpat. There have been many questions--yours being one amongst them--and I hoped that you would have at least given the book a read to get your questions answered. Anyhow, Islam is the fastest growing religion not because, as you suggested, people would be put to death if they left the religion. The fact of the matter is that this growth comes mainly from the West, where certainly no one is killed if they do decide to leave the religion. Have a look at the links below from your own sources. Since I took the time to respond to your question, please have a look at least at the table of contents of said book. You're open minded right?

http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/ind...al-rate-in-uk/

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...lim-faith.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...h-2175178.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfx4glTU5JQ

britexpat76

Ajeeb, the fastest growth is not in the west at all. Please look at the stats. You still missed my questions about converts from Islam and females marrying outside Islam. See, I am in a strange predicament my wife is married to me - an infidel and she is also a journalist so I think I am quite knowledgable in this. But enlighten me on what we are doing wrong.

Ajeeb

I'm in the West, and I, like many converts have turned away from Christianity as I've found it flawed and insufficient. I've turned towards Islam; this is despite all the propoganda about 9/11 and 7/7/07, etc. I think if the information we received about Islam was fair and balanced even more people would be accepting Islam.

Women aren't allowed to marry outside the religion simply to protect their religion. If religion is a matter of heaven and hell, why would anyone jeopardize their daughter's prosperity by having her marry one who would put her religion at risk? Would you have your daughter marry a criminal, drug addict or gang member?

Paracletus

Women aren't allowed to make their own decisions on who to marry so the religion propagates itself in perpetuity? Clever, very clever. I realize alot of people do get indoctrinated both at home and later by their teachers as well. There is no difference between a strict religious observer or a staunch ideologist. I'm glad however, you confirm without a hint of irony one of the many survival techniques of your ancient tribal doctrine.

I'm glad Europe is shifting religion further away from politics every day, for the most part. You can even tear up a bible in Poland now and claim artistic freedom. Good times.

Also, nothing much happened on 07/07/07 really, it happened in '05..but details details...whats a few years in an eternity?

As for fair and balanced..well..fair and balanced like fox news? Yes..fair and balanced in that case. I can accept that 911 and 7/7 were done by nutters..but why so much anger for some drawings by an old man? Or death threats for books and films? Not so fair and balanced I feel.

shiva

So many posts and so much nonsense, where to begin?

A site set up to convert is hardly an independent analysis likely to persuade any but those already convinced.
Marxism where did that come from? For the record I'm pretty far to the right. I do however believe strongly in social responsibility and noblesse oblige.


All religions evolved to answer questions which at the time couldn't be answered. As mans knowledge has increased over the millennia so have these questions and needs decreased.

God is no longer needed to explain the dawn or seasons, solar eclipses or lightning. It is no mere accident that the more scientifically literate the community the lower the number of religious believers becomes.

Some will argue and I can concede that there are a couple of questions left for god.
Where did the singularity that led to the Big Bang come from? Ill concede this is a question that allows for god still but only because science is a few thousand years behind religion on this one. Give it another 20 years and I'm confident that this one too will be dismissed.

Ill also conceded that the question why are we here is a valid one to some.
Human consciousness is so remarkable a thing that I will concede that most will find it difficult to comprehend that the vastness of time can randomly lead to a self questioning and examining creature.
I personally subscribe to the belief that its perfectly possible via randomness and time to evolve human consciousness and that we are here like every creature to procreate and pass on our genes only. Everything in excess of that is a bonus and a result of that evolutionary drive taken to a remarkable level.

Given that science has been a minority pursuit ( and oft persecuted one) for a relatively short period of time it is truely remarkable that we have come so far in so short a time.

The really remarkable thing is that despite so many questions now having been answered and that our world is a scientific and technological one, that religion still exists at all. So many of the answers are now available that it takes willful ignorance to ignore them and still require god.

If, as the religious would have you believe, god created mans mind, then he also created his ultimate destruction

scrubbedexpat141

This is getting really ****ing stupid.

Religion is the party that needs to prove it's existence. There is no hard evidence that anything in any religious book is fact. You need to full understand those two sentences, really and truly understand them, before asking me to prove religion is based on nothing. Please, re-read them to make sure you have taken them in fully.

I'm not interested in reading more of what you post when you roundly ignore the fact that I've closed this debate no less than three times now. Religion/War/Non Religion/War. It's been cleared up. Please.

Note:

[QUOTE=Ajeeb;10571659] Reading a booklet aimed at converting people like you from either another religion or no religion is hardly a great place to start if you wanted to learn more about a religion is it?

Why did you convert by the way? You said that Christianity was flawed, what were the flaws? What didn't you like about it? What if you find similar flaws in the Qu'ran? What if you find Islam to not be what you thought it was? What if it doesn't answer questions in the long-run for you?

I'm pretty sure you're not being a good Muslim by insulting and judging people.

In fact, I'm certain.

Norm_uk

Have you actually read Mein Kampf? Hitler was very clear he was doing god's work in standing against the Jew. He wrote that he wished Germans had adopted Islam as they would have conquered half the world. He was critical of Christianity for being weak and passive yet German soldiers went to war with 'God mitt uns'(God with us) on their belt buckles. Hitler was not an atheist, he was an insane theist who swapped class for race.

Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot were communists. Communism is an evil Marxism ideology...god or not it was never going to turn out well. Atheism is not the premise of Communism (class, nation and a complete unwillingness to accept human nature and work with it are).

Atheists are a mixed bunch like most other groups. I think it's a poor debate to declare they are better or worse. Atheism only means no belief in gods or god. It says nothing about ideology, morals or political beliefs. Comparison to any religion is nonsensical since atheism is not a religion anymore than bald is a hair colour.

N.

Norm_uk

You'll find the Golden Rule in the writings of Confucius long before Christ was meant to have come out with it...morality based on empathy and occasionally thinking a bit about others is not exclusive to Christianity.

I will give you this. Christ as presented in the New Testament is infinitely a more moral character than Mohammed or Moses. I don't know if he existed like the others and don't care. If a Christian follows Christ more than he or she follows the church I really have no problem with them and would defend such a person (I'd have to because they would be pacifists with bruised cheeks!).

N.

Norm_uk

No, you seem to suggest that people only believe in God because they are afraid of dying. This would be weakness and delusion in my eyes...

Am happy to take God's name in vain though - since I don't believe in him/it/them.

If I had to choose a deity I'd pick the Norse gods - so much more in line with my culture than middle eastern desert gods who seem to be preoccupied with who I sleep with, what I eat and if I pray to them or not. Sounds like a spoiled child.

N.

shiva

I had a quick look at this. If these are your best examples of scientific accuracy then you'd be better of keeping quiet about it

Boomhauer

The fact that you equate marrying a non-Muslim to marrying a criminal or gang member says a lot about you / your Islamic beliefs.

If women can't marry outside Islam why are men allowed to? It is pretty obvious the reason men are allowed to is because Islam is a tribal patriarchal religion. It is tribal/jungle law mentality that seeks to keep women of one's ethnic group soley for the men of said ethnic group but seeks out to 'acquire' women of other ethnic groups.

I know of Muslim men and women in the West who are nominal Muslims or have left Islam for all intents and purposes except for officially renouncing the religion, and the reason for not renouncing is the intimidation/threats from the Muslim community.

Any religion that seeks to maintain its hold on adherents with threats of force/death is not a moral or humane religion.

Kix

^^^^^^ What he said!

britexpat76

britexpat76

Ajeeb, you was doing so well with your copy and paste answers from websites, though now you show your true colours. So am I a criminal, Drug addict or gang member?? Do you not believe that people could actually marry for love? For happiness? do you think an imaginary god can give more than a husband who clothes you, feeds you and takes you on holidays?

You might as well pray facing Necker as I am sure you have more chance of Richard Branson answering your prayers than a pedophile desert nomad.

markdyson

I know very little about religion, but how someone can just stop believing in something and start believing in something completely different is very strange in my opinion.

How can someone say that all of a sudden a religion has become flawed and join another?

Its like me saying, Man Utd have sold all their best players, I'm going to support Man City...