Editha

Yet again, I'm unable to verify your assertion that both the Dimblebys were members of the Young Socialists.

On the contrary, David Dimbleby was a member of the Bullingdon Club when he was at Oxford, and his early career involved an anti Labour Party documentary -- "Yesterday's Men."

I can't find any reference to any political allegiance on the part of Jonathon Dimbleby, but if he is a socialist, he is the patron of some remarkably conservative charities.

Yet again, sources please? And I'm still waiting for sources for your earlier assertions. Are you just making this stuff up as a way of wasting my afternoon?

bigglesworth

As I am an old fashioned Manchester Liberal, the answer is clearly Yes, I do think liberals are left wing. Is a Manchester Liberal right wing? You seem to have very fixed ideas of how the world is. I wish I did. I find much of one's perspective depends on where one stands.


I do find it odd that, when the BBC describes itself as liberal - the minuscule is the clue- that anyone should argue the opposite. The BBC knows full well what it means by that. Its reports into itself are a matter of public record. Look them up.


Honestly though, what on earth does membership of a drinking club have to do with political allegiance? But if that is what floats your boat - fine. I really do not care very much about this.

Editha

Manchester liberal? You mean you are for free trade and the repeal of the corn laws???

If you know what you are talking about (which I am beginning to doubt), you'll know that most of the things the Manchester liberals stood for are now associated with the right, not the left.

Most socialists that I know nowadays would react quite angrily to the notion that they were liberals, since the word has become associated with neo-liberal economics and globalisation. My husband, teaching nineteenth century history, often has quite a hard slog persuading his left-leaning undergraduates that liberalism implies any values that they might subscribe to.

I am a liberal with a capital L, since I am a Liberal-Democrat, and I regard myself as a centrist rather than left or right wing.

The statements that you quoted from the BBC don't say quite what you think they say. First of all you misquote Thompson who said, in an interview with the New Statesman, that there was a left wing bias at the BBC when he joined the organisation as a trainee in 1979. He did not say there is a left-wing bias now. And that was his opinion as a young trainee, not the view of the corporation.

Humphries' and Marr's statements seem uncontroversial to me. People who have had a liberal arts education do tend to have liberal values. My husband is not left-wing, but I think he would be very disappointed if his undergraduates went away from his courses unaware of the virtues of liberal democracy and the dangers of nationalism. But that doesn't necessarily make them left wing. In fact, only yesterday I had coffee with a young man who is my husband's ex-student, undoubtedly liberal in his views, but also an aspiring Canadian Conservative politician.

You still have not provided any sources for your contention that Naughtie is a member of the Labour Party, or that both the Dimbleby brothers were members of the Young Socialists. Did you make them up?

bigglesworth

My goodness you certainly have a considerable regard for yourself. I am going to guess you have little experience of consensual or co-operative roles.

You will find that "liberal" in Europe generally is associated with the left, and has been for a number of years. In general, in my opinion, it carries a connotation of illiberal, a quality you seem to exemplify. What one regards oneself as was precisely my point, but as usual you hector and bluster onwards, without paying the slightest attention
If you can be bothered to read what I wrote rather than what you think I wrote, I make several of your points myself.

There really is little point in conversing with someone who cherrypicks and misrepresents as you do.

dunroving

Maybe I am just naïve but I haven't ever really bought into terms like left, right, liberal, conservative, socialist, etc. (do we still have Whigs?)

I think most people are a mix of all of these things. Liberal when it comes to welfare, conservative when it comes to abortion laws, etc.

On reflection I must be naïve because I also don't see the biases in telly and radio presenters that others seem to see (or at least if I see some swaying in favour of or against a guest, I don't think much of it). Surely we are all capable of taking what someone says on telly and making up our own minds about whether we agree or not, and it's the ability to make our own informed decisions that is important?

I think most politicians of every stripe talk a load of cobblers these days so maybe that makes me apolitical? I don't think so.

I watch This Week every week and I love listening to Michael Portillo and Alan "AJ" Johnson banter about politics. It seems like once a politician retires, he/she is allowed to talk like a real person. I can't wait for Dianne Abbot to retire because she talks complete gibberish.

bigglesworth

Chris, one for you I think

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/e...this-year.html

Beginning to look like a virtuous circle. As unemployment drops and /or employment rises, so growth increases and government revenues improve.
As growth increases, employment rises, unemployment drops, government expenditure drops too, and revenues grow.

roaringmouse

I'm with you, in that I don't really see much of a bias on the news. Different programs will have a different emphasis, but if there is a bias it isn't particularly strong.

In the UK, people who can't think for themselves generally vote for who they're told to by the gutter press - which is almost every newspaper nowadays.

cheeky_monkey

very rarely post in here, but I thought I'd share the good news, as according to the IMF, the UK economy is on the up and up and is projected to be the fastest growing economy in the G7 with growth estimates of 2.9% for 2014 and 2.5% for 2015....It's not all doom and gloom!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-26935148

chris955

No, not even close to being all doom and gloom, in fact not too much doom and gloom at all. Some would like to take the gloss off of every bit of good news but that says more about them than the state of the economy.

chris955

Labour would have said just borrow more and got us even more in debt. The Governments approach certainly now seems more successful even though it meant a few painful years. Create a healthy economy, create jobs and pay off the debt.

roaringmouse

I'm not sure if anyone has suggested it's all doom and gloom.

roaringmouse

The UK national debt has continued to increase since 2010, and shall continue to increase while the budget is in deficit.

dunroving

I have never been able to figure this out. Just about every country in the world seems to have a national debt (the US national debt is scary) and is running a deficit.

So who do we all owe the money to?

bigglesworth

Very true.

But if the rate of increase continues to decline, then we can envisage a time in the not too distant future when the debt too starts to be paid off.

bigglesworth

Most are obviously the Petro economies - Saudi, Kuwait etc - and countries with abundant raw materials. (The main reason why African nations have done so much better over the last ten years or so). But also Germany and China. I think Russia is still in there too.

We do still have this unfortunate habit of buying stuff we don't have.