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Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Old Sep 16th 2005, 12:18 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Agree with all the above. It's just not always the right decision to stay, end of story. Experiences in my opinion contribute to quality of life.

However, if people who have never been to Australia refuse to accept the negatives it might be because they really want the postitives of Australia badly and am prepared to take the inevitable rough with the smooth. Its not a head in the sand, its a 'we really want x and will get it '. In other words, it goes without saying that if y happens, so be it. They know its not perfect. (Many posters do in fact allude to this). It would be patronising to assume otherwise.

I'm quite cautious to not openly flame these posters because often they are on a high horse out of fustration - they want to be in Australia so of course it is convenient to blast the UK and 'Tony Blair' - if they were in Australia they wouldn't need to - its all displacement of energy, and its amusing for everyone else. These posters 'driven by politics' probably don't really care - its actaully an excuse to opt for a more hedonistic lifestyle for themselves without the guilt. ie 'talk about kids playing outside and we can get to BBQ'.

Posters like Grayling like to jump on them immediately - I give them 10 minutes. There are a few idiots of course who are all politics. We just smile and warn once more.

When people criticise Australia, the rose tinters feel they can weather those problems or have contingency plans for them. Some are ill prepared, but others do know of course that its not all perfect. All we can do is warn. It is as funny to lambast the 'rose tinters' as it is to lambast the 'failures' - we are all as bad as each other. The winners are those who end up happy wherever they are.

Just a cautionary tale - there is no point in laughing at rose tinters, many people who return home are victims of their own 'rose tinted glasses' themselves - the fact they are back home means that they have at worst made a hole in their wallet and are in no position to ridicule others. The rose tinters who stay in Australia and end up, to use that unfortunate expression 'living the dream' ultimately get the rewards. There is no doubt that these people are success stories. Of course they are; but returnees are not failures.

All we can do is warn.

Myself : I'd been in Australia for a year before I even came on this site so chose not to bother with negative posts - wasn't why I joined this site. I knew Australia in ways that most people don't so I counted myself as fortunate. I used to laugh at all the BBQ posters and concentrate on the real culture here. People have different agendas - different reasons - many people post positively because they can; they might get enough negativity in their work etc.

the problem with internet forums is that posters tend to come on here with a perceived 'identifit', which I've joked about before, the reality is that we are all more balanced, more educated than people realise and emotions run high. Single points get jumped on and others that forget the balance are discarded.

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Last edited by Badge; Sep 16th 2005 at 12:42 pm.
 
Old Sep 17th 2005, 9:32 pm
  #32  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by TanyaN
I think the main reason a lot of British people don't stick it out in Australia is the feeling of isolation, especially in places like Perth and Adelaide. When you've lived in Europe and everything is so close at hand and where you can do things like go to Paris for the weekend, it's no wonder people feel homesick.

However, if you've made the commitment to emigrate as well as the expense, it's only fair to give yourself at least 2 years to settle. People who give up after a few months obviously aren't being serious and are looking for a holiday rather than a new lifestyle.

There was no way I was stopping two years, 16 months was enough. I have Aussie Nationality anyway so didint need to stay the two years...BUT why put yourself through two years if you know you're not going to return to live permanently? To some I'm sure doing two years would seem like a prison centence?

I also didn't feel isolated in Perth because of where it was, I felt isolated due to my friends and family being in a different country, no matter how far away.

Some people may only take a few months to realise that Oz isnt for them and so return, I certainly knew very soon after landing, although circumstances led us to stay longer to arrange flights etc for our pets. I can imagine for some a few months there is a few months to long,

and I'm sure when they sold up their lives in the UK they were 100% as you are about emmigrating.
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Old Sep 17th 2005, 10:02 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

When a Brit relocates to the continent you're an 'expat'. When you move to Australia/NZ you're an 'immigrant'. Completely different mindset. Might be same language, but a different culture and lifestyle which you have to feel comfortable with otherwise it won't work.

If you're close to family and friends then moving to the other side of the earth is not a good idea.

So, yes, I agree with the original post, it's all to do with attitude.
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Old Sep 17th 2005, 10:28 pm
  #34  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by TanyaN
When a Brit relocates to the continent you're an 'expat'. When you move to Australia/NZ you're an 'immigrant'. Completely different mindset. Might be same language, but a different culture and lifestyle which you have to feel comfortable with otherwise it won't work.

If you're close to family and friends then moving to the other side of the earth is not a good idea.

So, yes, I agree with the original post, it's all to do with attitude.
People can be close to loved ones and family but still love living in Australia, however I do agree with you that the larger the family you have, the better quality of life you leave behind and the closer/larger circle of friends you have will make it all the harder to settle.

Moving to Europe has never come up as an optional place to live, Europe and Australia are worlds apart? We didnt want to choose somewhere like Spain because it was close to family and friends? We chose Australia due to thousands of other reasons and probably the same reasons as yourself and many others on this site.

When people plan to emmigrate they do think of family that they are leaving behind but it's not untill you are 'living the life' that reality hits and you realise just how much you do miss them, or not as they case may be.

***People take chances and moving abroad is a big chance for many people, the pull and hold of a strong family isn't always recognised until you have left them behind, this is no reason not to go, it doesn't mean that person had a bad attitude because they returned, some may feel the family pull stronger than others.

It's goes the same for other things too, someone might have given up a great job in the Uk got to OZ and found they were working harder and longer for less money, some people can't cope with less money and this makes them return. Some people can't cope with the heat, although they know it's a hot country, living there becomes a reality. Some can't stand the laidback/boring lifestyle (compared with perhaps the buzz they had before in the UK) and it's only when they are living that reality do they realise all these things. No one can pinpoint one thing and accuse someone of having an attitude problem because they dont like it. ***

We will have to agree to disagree
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Old Sep 17th 2005, 10:46 pm
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

I'm actually Australian and live in Europe. Can't bear the thought of going back to OZ permanently. It's too isolated, insular and most of it is just full of suburban types living in the suburbs. Think of 'Kath & Kim' and it's very close to the mark.

Most Brits I've known throughout the years just want to leave the UK because of weather. They talk about lifestyle, quality of life etc but basically they're just euphanisms for 'hot and sunny'. If the natives speak English, even better. Big mistake.

If you just want somewhere sunny, stick close to home.
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Old Sep 17th 2005, 10:51 pm
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by TanyaN

If the natives speak English, even better. Big mistake.

If you just want somewhere sunny, stick close to home.

Totally agree with you. I do think that many Brits (Myself included..hand up here being honest) think that because Australians speak English then settling will be far easier than somewhere in Europe. It is so different it doesn't even compare but you only know after living there don't you.
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Old Sep 17th 2005, 11:01 pm
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

I've lived in the UK/Europe/Middle East/OZ and can honestly say the Brits seem to adapt better to Europe and the Middle East. They can live as 'expats', continue to be British and all that entails and still enjoy living outside the UK.

The expectation in OZ is that you will try and become 'Australian' and they don't really tolerate Brits in general. That's because they're not interested in your life in the UK and definitely don't want to hear if you think it was better.
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Old Sep 18th 2005, 1:54 am
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Smile Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

I think that they key to all of this is that at least if you've been then you've followed your dream. It is better to go, give it 100% and then if it doesn't work out return to the UK than it is to say how much you'd like to do it and admire others who do, but not actually do anything about it. At least you've tried it and if it hasn't worked out then you've still gained in the experience because you appreciate the UK all the more on your return. We are all in different situations, with different reasons for emigrating and different priorities. It works for some but not others. But you never know unless you try. There's no shame in returning, there's more in not having the balls to give it a go in the first place.

Follow your heart - it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all - and the same applies to your emigration dream.

All the best everyone, whatever your personal circumstances and story.

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Old Sep 18th 2005, 11:09 am
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by adele
I think that they key to all of this is that at least if you've been then you've followed your dream. It is better to go, give it 100% and then if it doesn't work out return to the UK than it is to say how much you'd like to do it and admire others who do, but not actually do anything about it. At least you've tried it and if it hasn't worked out then you've still gained in the experience because you appreciate the UK all the more on your return. We are all in different situations, with different reasons for emigrating and different priorities. It works for some but not others. But you never know unless you try. There's no shame in returning, there's more in not having the balls to give it a go in the first place.

Follow your heart - it's better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all - and the same applies to your emigration dream.

All the best everyone, whatever your personal circumstances and story.

Adele xxx
All of what you have just said here is true, but there is a huge financial implication if you decide it's not for you. (e.g.me!)

I hate to think what we have spent doing this, I haven't added it up. It could be £40k, it could be £50K or £60K. Thankfully we can still afford to return home, but there are many who can't return home from the financial angle.

Do it, but leave the door open, don't burn your bridges, and make sure you have a pot that you can return with if you need it.
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Old Sep 18th 2005, 11:42 am
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by TanyaN
I've lived in the UK/Europe/Middle East/OZ and can honestly say the Brits seem to adapt better to Europe and the Middle East. They can live as 'expats', continue to be British and all that entails and still enjoy living outside the UK.

The expectation in OZ is that you will try and become 'Australian' and they don't really tolerate Brits in general. That's because they're not interested in your life in the UK and definitely don't want to hear if you think it was better.
You can add the good ol' USA to that aswell. I've lived in Hong Kong myself, and no one expected us to suddenly become Chinese, talk Cantonese and eat only Chinese food whilst we were there. Yet here, we are expected to become totally integrated and be like the locals purely because we speak the same language.
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Old Sep 19th 2005, 4:58 am
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by janeyray
It makes me quite angry when I read that people who don't stay in the country they choose to emmigrate to mustn't have the right attitude.

I read from many posters who are yet waiting to go/or those that are settled and living quite happily in thier new chosen country that if you want to return or don't like where you are then it's all about attitude?

What is the right attitude then? Are they saying that as soon as we land that we aren't prepared to work? we aren't prepared to live a different way/to adapt to their culture? that we aren't prepared to leave the Uk behind? What?..what is then that makes the right attitude???

I think my family certainly had the 'same' attitude that the thousands of migrants that leave the UK each day have. We planned for ages, did our research, did everything the same as everyone else, we didnt do anything different.

When we arrived we did the same as everyone else, made friends (Aussie and British) hubby got a job, daughter started school, we bought a house, we got on with our lives in Perth. We didnt have a different attitude towards Australia that singled us out as a definate to return to the UK. Homesickness isn't a fault, it isn't an attitude problem.

Everything we did in our plans to go to Australia were the same as thousands of others...it's just plain and simple... you either like it or you dont, there is no hidden secret as to why some stay and some don't. It doesn't matter what type of person you are and what type of attitude you have...what rubbish.
Hi Janey, agree with you a lot on here. Often feel we get this comment from expats in Oz on this subject. We're are made to feel guilty because we CAN go home.....Had that comment a lot.....
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Old Sep 19th 2005, 10:29 am
  #42  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

You are all so right.

I have moved to Oz. One reason is because of not having the language barrier. Didnt think for one minute I would have a problem intergrating with the locals.

Now I am here, I may as well be speaking double dutch as far as the locals are concerned.

I find it really hard to mingle with the natives.

We have decided that we are going to do a christmas here, but after that we are getting the hell out of here.

Hope everyone else on the journey of going back home, has a smooth ride.

Take care everyone.

Libby
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Old Sep 24th 2005, 3:54 am
  #43  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

I admire all of you for making the decision to return as I believe having the courage to migrate in the first place is extremely brave but admitting it wasn't for you and returning is equally brave.

My question is how difficult are you finding it to get back onto the property ladder and is your standard of living much lower on return then the one you left?

Good luck and best wishes to you all

Bill
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Old Sep 24th 2005, 9:40 am
  #44  
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by BillBart1

My question is how difficult are you finding it to get back onto the property ladder and is your standard of living much lower on return then the one you left?


Bill
We found it difficult. Hubby had to get a letter from the agency he started work for when we arrived back in the UK (Manpower) to say he was working on a permanent basis for them. It did the trick though

There was none of this 4 and five times your wages to compensate for the house price increase though! Hubbys wages and mine were taken into considersation but I think we were only given roughly 3x our wages. Same as when we applied for a mortgage years ago.


We have also had to take out a 25 year mortgage :scared: (only had 12 years left previously)
BUT..

Our standard of living is better than before, hubby got a permanent job and was promoted a few months ago and is now management. Before we moved to Oz he had been in the same job for 12 years so Oz did change him in some respects.
I work for the government and feel lucky to have landed such a good job. It was hard to get in but worth it.
We have another baby on the way, see family and friends often, and feel better off financially (even though mortgage is 200 pounds a month more than before!) than in 2003. We are definitely far far better off financially than we would have been in Perth. I've never felt so skint as I did while we lived there.
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Old Sep 24th 2005, 10:00 am
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Default Re: Those returning dont have the 'right attitude'

Originally Posted by janeyray
We found it difficult. Hubby had to get a letter from the agency he started work for when we arrived back in the UK (Manpower) to say he was working on a permanent basis for them. It did the trick though

There was none of this 4 and five times your wages to compensate for the house price increase though! Hubbys wages and mine were taken into considersation but I think we were only given roughly 3x our wages. Same as when we applied for a mortgage years ago.


We have also had to take out a 25 year mortgage :scared: (only had 12 years left previously)
BUT..

Our standard of living is better than before, hubby got a permanent job and was promoted a few months ago and is now management. Before we moved to Oz he had been in the same job for 12 years so Oz did change him in some respects.
I work for the government and feel lucky to have landed such a good job. It was hard to get in but worth it.
We have another baby on the way, see family and friends often, and feel better off financially (even though mortgage is 200 pounds a month more than before!) than in 2003. We are definitely far far better off financially than we would have been in Perth. I've never felt so skint as I did while we lived there.
I was wondering whether 25 years takes you past retirement age? I seem to remember way back when I first took out a mortgage in the UK (late 80's), that lenders were reluctant to give you a mortgage term extending past your retirement age. Conversely, here in the US, it really doesn't seem to be an issue - my current 30 year mortgage would take me past my 75th birthday!

Just looking ahead to when I try to get back on the ladder in the UK, whether this is no longer an issue with UK lenders. Prices are bad enough as they are without having to cram payments into a 15-year term!
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