Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Old Apr 18th 2021, 1:03 pm
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Default Scotland,Land of the Free for all

As a recent new arrival to Scotland from abroad,I have been following the programmes on British TV for the May elections in both England & Scotland.Have I indeed relocated to a promised Utopia? Nicola Sturgeon has set out her manifesto & it looks like she has taken a cutting from Boris the Brag´s magic money tree which has grown to full size.Should she be successful in retaining her role as 1st.Minister we are all in for some real financial goodies,free dentistry,free TV licence,a 4day working week etc etc.I can imagine that the Border towns will be once again subjected to invasion from"foreign" parts,Hadrian´s wall taking more of a bashing from those from southern regions determined to be first across..Anyone from N.Ireland,capable of even operating a pedalo,may be seen braving the waves as the Ferries could be fully booked to Stranraer.It may even be possible that Billy Connelly is right now getting Removal quotes to return to his beloved Glasgow. Fortunately there are other Scottish political parties that,as I do,support the right for Scots to decide if they want to hold another Independence referendum.Therefore as I now have the chance to vote once more in the UK,something denied me in the EU referendum,I shall have a choice.Over the years of operating my own business successfully,I have been very conscious that,yes,you must be ambitious but overstepping the mark so often has a nasty consequence which is called "being Bankrupt".The SNP have not learned it appears,from the many U-turns that Boris Johnson in England has had to do & that with a far more compliant electorate than the steely Scots.
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Old Apr 18th 2021, 2:38 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Isn’t the free TV licence proposal in Scotland just for the over 75s?
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Old Apr 19th 2021, 3:43 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

You could be right about that Robin1234.By the time I got to that bit,I think I was so bemused that all I could reckon was that it didn´t matter too much as we would all be so much better off.Seriously though,I think it is really dreadful that such things as free breakfasts/lunches are promised for schoolchildren in Britain today as an incentive to vote for a political party.
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Old Apr 20th 2021, 7:20 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
You could be right about that Robin1234.By the time I got to that bit,I think I was so bemused that all I could reckon was that it didn´t matter too much as we would all be so much better off.Seriously though,I think it is really dreadful that such things as free breakfasts/lunches are promised for schoolchildren in Britain today as an incentive to vote for a political party.
I agree, but do people really vote on that simplistic basis? I’m guessing voters judge which candidate or party they are broadly in sympathy with - particular policy proposals are just one building block that goes to make the whole picture.
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Old Apr 21st 2021, 8:26 am
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

It´s many years since I voted in UK & scotland has a 2 tier system as well.Maybe a Scot is better informed than myself.Anyone on here who can give us a an opinion?
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Old Apr 21st 2021, 12:12 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
You could be right about that Robin1234.By the time I got to that bit,I think I was so bemused that all I could reckon was that it didn´t matter too much as we would all be so much better off.Seriously though,I think it is really dreadful that such things as free breakfasts/lunches are promised for schoolchildren in Britain today as an incentive to vote for a political party.
Isn't that a bit like suggesting 'free' healthcare is an incentive to vote for one particular party? Or 'free' education? Or "vote for us and we'll provide roads for you to drive on"
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Old Apr 21st 2021, 12:29 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by BristolUK View Post
Isn't that a bit like suggesting 'free' healthcare is an incentive to vote for one particular party? Or 'free' education? Or "vote for us and we'll provide roads for you to drive on"
That is just asking for the opposing party to up the ante. “Vote for US! We’ll provide free potholes in the roads!”
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Old Apr 21st 2021, 12:33 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by robin1234 View Post
That is just asking for the opposing party to up the ante. “Vote for US! We’ll provide free potholes in the roads!”
And then they'll give the road repairs contracts to party donors.
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Old Apr 22nd 2021, 3:12 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

No,no,the repairs contracts for the free potholes that may be on offer will not be given to party donors as,it is rumoured,that the cost has been taken into consideration already.Probably only been mentioned in Scotland so far BUT..... a Highland council is to ban custard,among other things,from school dinners because of the sugar it contains resulting in podgy children.Obviously the revenue saved will be used elsewhere without the need to further tax the public.An extra run around the playground before dashing for the car to take the kiddies home was,I believe,suggested instead but was not cost effective for the potholes solution.That should make the opposition up the ante.
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Old May 4th 2021, 5:30 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by dougal03 View Post
As a recent new arrival to Scotland from abroad,I have been following the programmes on British TV for the May elections in both England & Scotland.Have I indeed relocated to a promised Utopia? Nicola Sturgeon has set out her manifesto & it looks like she has taken a cutting from Boris the Brag´s magic money tree which has grown to full size.Should she be successful in retaining her role as 1st.Minister we are all in for some real financial goodies,free dentistry,free TV licence,a 4day working week etc etc.I can imagine that the Border towns will be once again subjected to invasion from"foreign" parts,Hadrian´s wall taking more of a bashing from those from southern regions determined to be first across..Anyone from N.Ireland,capable of even operating a pedalo,may be seen braving the waves as the Ferries could be fully booked to Stranraer.It may even be possible that Billy Connelly is right now getting Removal quotes to return to his beloved Glasgow. Fortunately there are other Scottish political parties that,as I do,support the right for Scots to decide if they want to hold another Independence referendum.Therefore as I now have the chance to vote once more in the UK,something denied me in the EU referendum,I shall have a choice.Over the years of operating my own business successfully,I have been very conscious that,yes,you must be ambitious but overstepping the mark so often has a nasty consequence which is called "being Bankrupt".The SNP have not learned it appears,from the many U-turns that Boris Johnson in England has had to do & that with a far more compliant electorate than the steely Scots.
The problem with the SNP is that they are leftist and nationalist together. Left or socially left in terms of "everything is for free if you vote for me" plus nationalist, when it comes "we want to be independent" The SNP seems to be obsessed with independence. What the SNP doesn't say: What they offer to be "for free" is financed by the much hated England, London and Boris. One thing is certain: An independent Scotland will have a very strong austerity to deal with, and also a land border to the rest of the UK where around 70% of business is done. And EU membership of Scotland isnt't certain, nor guaranteed, no matter what the SNP promises. It's not down to the SNP but to the EU to decide on that one. Currency, military and defence as well as even citizenship aren't even mentioned. Another problem is the toxic climate between Sturgeon and Salmond's newly founded Alba Party.
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Old May 4th 2021, 5:43 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
The problem with the SNP is that they are leftist and nationalist together. Left or socially left in terms of "everything is for free if you vote for me" plus nationalist, when it comes "we want to be independent" The SNP seems to be obsessed with independence. What the SNP doesn't say: What they offer to be "for free" is financed by the much hated England, London and Boris. One thing is certain: An independent Scotland will have a very strong austerity to deal with, and also a land border to the rest of the UK where around 70% of business is done. And EU membership of Scotland isnt't certain, nor guaranteed, no matter what the SNP promises. It's not down to the SNP but to the EU to decide on that one. Currency, military and defence as well as even citizenship aren't even mentioned. Another problem is the toxic climate between Sturgeon and Salmond's newly founded Alba Party.
All very true but until a credible opposition appears in Scotland then the SNP will keep getting back in. The Tories were daft to allow Ruth Davidson to quit.
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Old May 5th 2021, 3:57 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

You have to be daft to believe most of the freebies on offer with any Party.I left Spain only in early February.At that point it seemed apparent to me that Scotland would be welcome in the EU but my town was mostly resident Scandinavians,Dutch & Germans.My Spanish son-in-law´s family was in favour also.EU currency rules are surely well known & the euro would have to be adopted at some stage.The border question is probably going to be quite a debate though.For years there has been a "tongue in cheek"joke that at Carlisle a fee has to be paid for onward travel but must confess,not sure for which way.Business would likely be lost from England but then Scotland would gain a market in the EU & be able to trade directly itself.The Whisky trade must be worth a bit.Then there is the biggest headache.The Faslane base & Trident which provides hundreds of jobs but the majority of Scots are against Nuclear weapons on their territory.The SNP these last weeks have put out new messages expressing this view,even in the English newspapers.Who else will want it relocated to their country or area? As said,there is no credible opposition in Scotland,but neither in England also which keeps Bonkers Boris in charge.This weekend will be very interesting TV watching.
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Old May 5th 2021, 5:49 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by BritInParis View Post
All very true but until a credible opposition appears in Scotland then the SNP will keep getting back in. The Tories were daft to allow Ruth Davidson to quit.
Matters as grave as this are sadly rarely settled with reasoning. Just think about the issues in Quebec way back when.....

The issue is that the SNP is clearly deviating from the real problems in Scotland and making it seem that independence solves everything, The NHS Scotland is a bit inferior to the rest of the UK, there are more drug problems in Scotland than in the rest of the UK also there is a pretty high suicide rate in Scotland, and there is also an aging population. In the mind of the SNP or some of their voters Scotland and the Scottish are seen as a depressed minority which will begin to blossom only when Scotland leaves the UK.

The oil business in Scotland is not there forever and other large employers, such as finance and banking do have the majority of their business in the rest of the UK, or shipbuilding contracts awarded to Scotland by London. These points are often forgotten when Scottish independence comes to mind. The currency question is not even remotely mentioned by the SNP in this election if another independence referendum is called, or whether an independent Scotland would be eager to swap British citizenship for Scottish citizenship and expecting the same international treaties applied to British citizens.......

I'd hate to se Scotland go, love them being part of the UK. I also don't think Scotland can't ever go independent, the case is from an economic and budgetary perspective way to weak. Als in the end the SNP would have to come clean with their voters on the case of currency, citizenship or defence matters of an independent Scotland, and how soon Scotland could realistically re-join the EU..... To date this is all missing.

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Old May 5th 2021, 9:52 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by OrangeMango View Post
The issue is that the SNP is clearly deviating from the real problems in Scotland and making it seem that independence solves everything
The SNP are a loose alliance of contradictory factions, bound together by a belief - for whatever reason - that it would be better for Scotland to leave the UK.

If they ever succeed in achieving their goals then they are almost certain to fracture into a number of smaller, ideologically disparate parties and both Labour and the Conservatives are likely to follow them down that path.

That puts the SNP in the handy position of being able to promise the earth in the pursuit of independence, knowing deep down that a few years after independence they won't be around to have to account for all their promises.

It's a remarkably effective tactic, and whichever coalition of successor parties eventually ends up in government can just blame all their inherited problems on the SNP, Westminster or the Tories and start off with basically a clean slate.

I also don't think Scotland can't ever go independent, the case is from an economic and budgetary perspective way to weak.
As someone who voted No last time but would probably vote Yes now, it's just not about the money any more...
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Old May 5th 2021, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: Scotland,Land of the Free for all

Originally Posted by TexanScot View Post
The SNP are a loose alliance of contradictory factions, bound together by a belief - for whatever reason - that it would be better for Scotland to leave the UK.

If they ever succeed in achieving their goals then they are almost certain to fracture into a number of smaller, ideologically disparate parties and both Labour and the Conservatives are likely to follow them down that path.

That puts the SNP in the handy position of being able to promise the earth in the pursuit of independence, knowing deep down that a few years after independence they won't be around to have to account for all their promises.

It's a remarkably effective tactic, and whichever coalition of successor parties eventually ends up in government can just blame all their inherited problems on the SNP, Westminster or the Tories and start off with basically a clean slate.
Lot's of political parties operate like this. Plus they NEVER accept responsibility, even though they trick the voter every time into that. It's be like the EU referendum, only to Scotland. Anything bad goes to England, anything good stays in Scotland, and when the reality is different and will be different it's the usual "I didn't vote for this..." " I only voted for that" kind of talk.

Originally Posted by TexanScot View Post
As someone who voted No last time but would probably vote Yes now, it's just not about the money any more...
The issue is that they ( politicians, mostly Cameron or the Tories ) tricked Scotland twice. In the first referendum they told them to vote NO for the very reason that they wouldn't be accepted by the EU anytime soon, if they were an independent country. So Scotland voted NO and remained with the UK and the EU.

Then came the EU referendum, and Scotland voted remain, for precisely that reason - to stay in the EU - as promised by Cameron.. And now it's down to Johnson and the Tories to deny them independence, whilst the SNP claims a mandate for independence to join the EU again.

In light of this development and even though I don't believe in independence for Scotland and also believe that ultimately Scotland would be worse of for a number of years even a single decade I wouldn't be surprised if voter in Scotland has no other hope than the SNP, even though the SNP can't really promise them anything. They've been fooled by London and the Tories too often, to trust them again, and also to make any reasonable choice about their future.

It'll be the third trick which will be played on the Scots. That's the sad part of it.



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