RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Old Dec 7th 2010, 11:29 am
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
I don't believe it will ever happen in the US - insurance and pharmaceutical companies have far too much strength for that.
We all like to bash insurers and big pharma (and I'm not saying that they don't deserve it) but if you look at the list of "campaign donations" that I linked to earlier, it turns out that "Health Professionals" spend more than either and almost as much as both combined.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 11:31 am
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by robin1234
Can be depressing, but also very interesting; in urban areas you get to see the backs of terraced houses, much more interesting than the fronts.
It's even more interesting sometimes when you are on the top deck of a bus going through a residential suburban area especially on streets with terraced houses. If the traffic is heavy the bus stops and starts regularly and with the top deck being level with many bedroom windows it's occasionally possible to see some interesting sights, and you realise how careless some people can be.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 11:43 am
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Oregon4now
Thats why WE have County hospitals available for those who are UNABLE to afford their Medical cost
Doesn't help much if you need rehab, cancer treatment or anything on going though...

Free resources, really depends on location. There's pretty much bugger all in my area because you are legally required to have medical insurance in my state.

Also those resources that might be available tend to have quite a threshold before offering you any help.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 11:46 am
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Lothianlad
It's even more interesting sometimes when you are on the top deck of a bus going through a residential suburban area especially on streets with terraced houses. If the traffic is heavy the bus stops and starts regularly and with the top deck being level with many bedroom windows it's occasionally possible to see some interesting sights, and you realise how careless some people can be.
No condoms, eh?

It's always been my policy to not live ON a bus line.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 12:05 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by chartreuse
We all like to bash insurers and big pharma (and I'm not saying that they don't deserve it) but if you look at the list of "campaign donations" that I linked to earlier, it turns out that "Health Professionals" spend more than either and almost as much as both combined.
Quite hard to ascertain the definitions of what the categories are - I can't find their definition of "health professional". It also seem strange that some sectors seem to be divided up - defense aerospace, defense electronics, defense misc all as separate entries.

I wonder who the "lobbyists" are lobbying on behalf of, who who funded the Leadership PACS? (let alone the "democrat/liberal and republican/conservative entries) - seems like an easy way for a particular sector to split its contributions to appear less that they really are.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 12:08 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
I was in that situation when I first came and i have a chronic health condition.
I found a part private-part state government funded charity that gave me the care and medicine I needed and that i couldn't do without.

In my research, I discovered that there were lots of scheme, programmes, etc., for people who don't have health insurance or a job that doesn't provide HI.

The issue, as I see it for the current system, is the challenge to get those who are left out of the system, to get them into work and into work that provides HI and to have a better basic coverage system for those who still can't be helped.

I do agree that the US system isn't perfect or without hassles for those who use it and clearly there is corruption and pharmaceutical price fixing as well as treatment/surgery/hospital services price fixing too, as there is in the UK/Europe.
This is global problem that no-one seems to want to fix.

The difference is that in the UK, people are unaware of these costs and of the way the government is managing the system, which is infinitely more expensive.
In the US, you are not paying for everyone's else's treatment.
Yes you are - when uninsured people have no choice but to go to the Emergency Room. Who picks up the tab for that? We all do - in the cost of higher premiums passed on to us lucky enough to have health insurance. Of course we all pay. Wake up!!!!!
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 12:32 pm
  #277  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Bob
Doesn't help much if you need rehab, cancer treatment or anything on going though...

Free resources, really depends on location. There's pretty much bugger all in my area because you are legally required to have medical insurance in my state.

Also those resources that might be available tend to have quite a threshold before offering you any help.
Great points Bob.
But in your State aren't those people then covered under the Commonwealth Care program ?
I am asking because I truly have no clue how it is working for you guys there.
I would love to see something positive coming out of the Health Ins sector that other States can use as a Model or a base .
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 12:36 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Quite hard to ascertain the definitions of what the categories are - I can't find their definition of "health professional". It also seem strange that some sectors seem to be divided up - defense aerospace, defense electronics, defense misc all as separate entries.

I wonder who the "lobbyists" are lobbying on behalf of, who who funded the Leadership PACS? (let alone the "democrat/liberal and republican/conservative entries) - seems like an easy way for a particular sector to split its contributions to appear less that they really are.
Oh, absolutely, the whole system is rigged to prevent the people ever having a clear idea as to who is buying off the dirtbag politicians that are ass raping them. I'm just saying that the doctors and hospital administrators have as much dirt on their hands as the rest of them.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 12:40 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by chartreuse
I'm just saying that the doctors and hospital administrators have as much dirt on their hands as the rest of them.
Well that link you posted doesn't show that... That's some dirty data.. they have no explanation for the industries on that list.

It simply doesn't track with the volume of letters & writing to the contrary, that I observed from health care providers (doctors etc).
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 12:45 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by meauxna
Well that link you posted doesn't show that... That's some dirty data.. they have no explanation for the industries on that list.

It simply doesn't track with the volume of letters & writing to the contrary, that I observed from health care providers (doctors etc).
I'm not saying that each and every doctor is bent. But I think all the professions, with their guilds and all, are to some extent. Individually, I'm sure there's doctors who have as much disdain for the hill rats that their professional bodies employ as I do for the ones who work for the NRA.

By way of counter example, consider hospitals that give $1m bills to folks for procedures for which they'd charge an insurance plan 10% of that amount.

Editd to add: Here's the explanations: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/index.php

For health care professionals it says (in part):
All health professionals are included in this category: various physicians, psychiatrists, dentists, chiropractors, pharmacists, nurses, nutritionists and anyone else providing health care services—as well as their professional associations. (Chiropractors, dentists and nurses are subsets of this industry and are profiled in greater detail within this section.)

Only four other industries, along with retirees, spent more than health professionals on political campaigns during the 2008 election cycle. Key players within the industry include the American Medical Association, the American Dental Association and the American Society of Anesthesiologists. All three seek to increase health professionals’ compensation under Medicare and expand access to health care for people in underserved areas. The AMA is the industry’s largest trade group, and focuses on reforming the medical liability system, as well as resisting government-run health care.

Last edited by chartreuse; Dec 7th 2010 at 12:50 pm.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 1:13 pm
  #281  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Oregon4now
Great points Bob.
But in your State aren't those people then covered under the Commonwealth Care program ?
I am asking because I truly have no clue how it is working for you guys there.
I would love to see something positive coming out of the Health Ins sector that other States can use as a Model or a base .
Here, if work offers medical insurance, you have to take it, or be covered by another family member. If it isn't offered and you can't afford your own cover, the state has a group policy which you can get, but it's still not very cheap, slightly less than private I guess and you get the benefit of a group pool, but there are quite a lot of dips in cover, some things are great, especially for things related to kids, but else where not so good, either not offering any care or having high deductibles. It is better than nothing, but because of it, there's not as much free help available as there could be.

Also, because there is state group cover policy, it's hard to get on group policy cover that's private such as through a trade association, it's simply just not offered. For instance, you can join the IGDA and get a group policy as a game developer, they don't vet btw, and membership is about $50 a year and you can then enrol in the group medical insurance by state to at least get cover, usually at a discount, but they just don't offer it to a handful of states, MA is one of them.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 1:36 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by chartreuse
I'm not saying that each and every doctor is bent. But I think all the professions, with their guilds and all, are to some extent. Individually, I'm sure there's doctors who have as much disdain for the hill rats that their professional bodies employ as I do for the ones who work for the NRA.

By way of counter example, consider hospitals that give $1m bills to folks for procedures for which they'd charge an insurance plan 10% of that amount.

Editd to add: Here's the explanations: http://www.opensecrets.org/industries/index.php

For health care professionals it says (in part):
ok, that's juicy enough to suck me in.. interesting the different things we saw when we looked at the same page!
Unfor.. Fortunately for you, I've got to go bore the neighbors tonight.

This summed it up nicely: Individually, I'm sure there's doctors who have as much disdain for the hill rats that their professional bodies employ as I do for the ones who work for the NRA.

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Old Dec 7th 2010, 3:57 pm
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by meauxna
ok, that's juicy enough to suck me in.. interesting the different things we saw when we looked at the same page!
Unfor.. Fortunately for you, I've got to go bore the neighbors tonight.

This summed it up nicely: Individually, I'm sure there's doctors who have as much disdain for the hill rats that their professional bodies employ as I do for the ones who work for the NRA.

I thought you'd like the hill rat thing.

As for seeing different things, seems to me that:

"All three seek to increase health professionals’ compensation under Medicare and expand access to health care for people in underserved areas. The AMA is the industry’s largest trade group, and focuses on reforming the medical liability system, as well as resisting government-run health care"

quite clearly reads

"All three want their members to be paid more, out of your taxes, for doing the same job, as well as taxpayers' money in subsidies to establish new markets for them. The AMA is the industry’s largest trade group, and wants immunity for its members from lawsuits arising out of their gross and culpable negligence, as well as lobbying for protectionist policies to prevent any competition threatening their cosy little cartels."
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 4:08 pm
  #284  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Oregon4now
As I stated several post above.. MANY do not use the PUBLIC resources available to them at no Co$t, not one red cent.

The American Heart, Diabetes, Lung, Vision, Kidney, Hearing, Blood pressure,
Blood test, Cancer screening, list goes on } Associations, ALL offer, some several times a year Free screenings & Testing in almost every American city.
Most major cities have Health Fairs every year, check out your local listings people, There is so much out there in Govt $$$$$ to fund these programs which are not being used and resourced by those who claim to need it so much..
But what do I know, right ?
So what? You were the one who brought statistics in to this discussion.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 5:04 pm
  #285  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by AdobePinon
So what? You were the one who brought statistics in to this discussion.
And your point is ?

You made a remark about people not being able to afford diagnosis, I countered with a post showing some FREE resources available.
What does any of that have to do with statistics ?
At least my post and Links can possibly be helpful to somebody out there who are unaware of these free Public services.
But then again, what do I know, right ?

Last edited by Oregon4now; Dec 7th 2010 at 5:19 pm.
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