RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Old Dec 5th 2010, 3:58 pm
  #226  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
well, I did say a better system for those who can't be helped, but you must have not read that bit.
I did as a matter of fact and you did not answer MY question. So you must not have read that bit..........

Also, I'm not equating care, ie quality of care in a US vs UK. I'm addressing the costs. Yes, from what I have read, the NHS is having some troubles and is overhauling them and doing some cutbacks.

My beef with the US healthcare system is the costs associated with the care not the care itself. THAT is what is a problem for people teetering on the edge in today's economy.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 5:07 pm
  #227  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
The issue, as I see it for the current system, is the challenge to get those who are left out of the system, to get them into work and into work that provides HI.
It strikes me that continually shifting the burden of paying for healthcare onto employers is only going to make US companies even less globally competitive than they already are.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 5:38 pm
  #228  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by robin1234
Why should health care be tied to employment? In the real world (e.g. UK), being covered by health care is a function of being a living breathing human being.
Health care is not a function of being a human.
Its not even a right.

The world has always been a jungle and will always be a jungle and the survival of the species is down to those most able - natural selection and evolution.

By compensating so much for the inadequacies of those less strong and less able who won't or cannot cope or refuse to help themselves or those who engage in destructive behavior and who are constantly bailed out by others, the human race is weakened and prevented from realizing its full potential.

The use of employers to funnel healthcare provision is a simple matter of logistics, scale and negotiating power.
Individuals have no leverage against large institutions and cannot negotiate the best terms. This is true in all other walks of life.

If the healthcare industry was to be fully opened up so there were no restrictions about location, perhaps co-operatives could be setup to negotiate terms for their members.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:03 pm
  #229  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
The world has always been a jungle and will always be a jungle and the survival of the species is down to those most able - natural selection and evolution.
Except for bankers
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:04 pm
  #230  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
I have a chronic health condition.
I found a part private-part state government funded charity that gave me the care and medicine I needed and that i couldn't do without.
Originally Posted by Volt61
By compensating so much for the inadequacies of those less strong and less able who won't or cannot cope or refuse to help themselves or those who engage in destructive behavior and who are constantly bailed out by others, the human race is weakened and prevented from realizing its full potential.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:06 pm
  #231  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by elfman
You forgot to highlight "so much" from my statement.

But also, I would not categorize my situation as being the same as the groups of people that I referred to.

I am very grateful for what help I received and I am now able to contribute to those programs that gave me help.

Last edited by Volt61; Dec 5th 2010 at 6:09 pm.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:09 pm
  #232  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
You forgot to highlight "so much" from my statement.
so you're only a little bit of a hypocrite instead of a massive one?
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:11 pm
  #233  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by elfman
so you're only a little bit of a hypocrite instead of a massive one?
I don't think you are able to read and understand, so perhaps its best that I don't continue with your nonsense.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:20 pm
  #234  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
I don't think you are able to read and understand, so perhaps its best that I don't continue with your nonsense.
Watch out, elfman, you face extermination as your deficiencies are weakening the human race.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:20 pm
  #235  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
I don't think you are able to read and understand, so perhaps its best that I don't continue with your nonsense.
You forgot to add Sarah Palin to your list of "heroes" on your profile - she's another conservative icon who's a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to health care
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:27 pm
  #236  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
Health care is not a function of being a human.
Its not even a right.

The world has always been a jungle and will always be a jungle and the survival of the species is down to those most able - natural selection and evolution.

By compensating so much for the inadequacies of those less strong and less able who won't or cannot cope or refuse to help themselves or those who engage in destructive behavior and who are constantly bailed out by others, the human race is weakened and prevented from realizing its full potential.

The use of employers to funnel healthcare provision is a simple matter of logistics, scale and negotiating power.
Individuals have no leverage against large institutions and cannot negotiate the best terms. This is true in all other walks of life.

If the healthcare industry was to be fully opened up so there were no restrictions about location, perhaps co-operatives could be setup to negotiate terms for their members.
So in your world the rich and powerful have the right to kill the poor and middle class in pursuit of profits without consequence. Who knows why people get sick. How much of an effect did above ground nuclear testing, heavy metals and chemicals dumped into our water supply, untreated toxic waste dumps, black lung disease, asbestos poisoning, lead poisoning, chemical poisoning, air pollution, acid rain, etc. have on people developing diseases?

In your world, people can sue companies if they believe they were injured by a companies actions but since it is almost impossible to prove and therefore the lawsuit should be disallowed since it would be frivolous.

Last edited by Michael; Dec 5th 2010 at 6:33 pm.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 6:32 pm
  #237  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
Health care is not a function of being a human.
Its not even a right.

The world has always been a jungle and will always be a jungle and the survival of the species is down to those most able - natural selection and evolution.

By compensating so much for the inadequacies of those less strong and less able who won't or cannot cope or refuse to help themselves or those who engage in destructive behavior and who are constantly bailed out by others, the human race is weakened and prevented from realizing its full potential.

The use of employers to funnel healthcare provision is a simple matter of logistics, scale and negotiating power.
Individuals have no leverage against large institutions and cannot negotiate the best terms. This is true in all other walks of life.

If the healthcare industry was to be fully opened up so there were no restrictions about location, perhaps co-operatives could be setup to negotiate terms for their members.


Rich old sick people use Medicare and collect Social Security. With a vengeance.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 7:04 pm
  #238  
 
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
I don't think you are able to read and understand, so perhaps its best that I don't continue with your nonsense.
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 7:07 pm
  #239  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
The world has always been a jungle and will always be a jungle and the survival of the species is down to those most able - natural selection and evolution.

By compensating so much for the inadequacies of those less strong and less able who won't or cannot cope or refuse to help themselves or those who engage in destructive behavior and who are constantly bailed out by others, the human race is weakened and prevented from realizing its full potential.
OK so you are not a fascist (an advocate of a strong corporatist state.) Being a fascist is a relatively rational political stance.

I would say you were a Nazi. I don't mean that as an insult or a slur, just reading what you wrote (quoted above.)
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Old Dec 5th 2010, 7:12 pm
  #240  
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Default Re: RECENT TRIP TO ENGLAND

Originally Posted by Volt61
The issue, as I see it for the current system, is the challenge to get those who are left out of the system, to get them into work and into work that provides HI and to have a better basic coverage system for those who still can't be helped.

I do agree that the US system isn't perfect or without hassles for those who use it and clearly there is corruption and pharmaceutical price fixing as well as treatment/surgery/hospital services price fixing too, as there is in the UK/Europe.
This is global problem that no-one seems to want to fix.

The difference is that in the UK, people are unaware of these costs and of the way the government is managing the system, which is infinitely more expensive.In the US, you are not paying for everyone's else's treatment.
Is it?

http://www.visualeconomics.com/healt...ld_2010-03-01/
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/he...xpenditure-gdp

Looks like the UK spends quite a bit less than the US and manages to get universal coverage as well.

Last edited by Cape Blue; Dec 5th 2010 at 7:12 pm. Reason: typo
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