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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:21 am
  #31  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
The problem is not people like you who can and do pay their way, .... and the rules are designed to ensure that only people who can pay their way are allowed in.

The puzzle to me, and others, is why the supporters of the bleaters and whingers want people who clearly can't pay their way, to be allowed in to settle in the UK?
Couple of answers to that - between the 'sky is falling' mentality promoted by the gutter press at the mere mention of 'immigrant', the Brexit/Britin debate, and the current austerity regime in the UK - all new immigrants get it in the neck (to greater or lesser extents).

I'm one of the 'bleaters and whingers' who think the financial requirements are set too high, I've mentioned before some the different groupings of people who are affected and I'm too weary of the whole bloody argument to go through it all again.

The immigration debate throughout the UK, whether in the media, on buses, in pubs or on forums like BE, is turning nasty. Everyone seems to be looking for a scapegoat - and it's not just the government getting it in the neck.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:31 am
  #32  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
.... I'm one of the 'bleaters and whingers' who think the financial requirements are set too high, ....
I still don't understand how little more than the pay level I was earning over 25 years ago labouring in a warehouse is "too high". Even back then there was unemployment, high unemployment, and people saying that work was hard to find, but meanwhile my employer was constantly hiring because it was hard to find good workers. The work wasn't glamorous, but it was steady work.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 1:31 pm
  #33  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by BritInParis
'No recourse to public funds' which doesn't cover all benefits nor benefits claimed in the British spouse or child.
Plus if a child has a visa with 'no recourse to public funds' they can still have all the public funds claimed for them if one adult in the family can claim public funds: the benefits Child Tax Credis and Child Benefit.

Whereas if neither adult has recourse to public funds, they can't claim any UK welfare payments for their "no recourse to public funds" children. These parents are expected to work enough hours to be able to house, feed and clothe their own children.


Even on minimum hourly wage only, it is possible for a Brit to sponsor a spouse. Under present rules, on that very low 18.6 wage, any children they have can be paid for by the welfare state if they don't increase their hours to provide for their own children.

The only ones who are prevented to coming to the UK with their Brit under the changed rules are;
those who married someone who won't work to sponsor them;
those who haven't saved for their retirement as they planned to get to another country (the UK) in their old age and get the taxpayers to fund them for the rest of their lives;
those who assumed they would go to the UK with their Brit if ever they were broke and therefore they didn't bother to buy insurance or save;
those who failed to realise that the UK would lose it's appetite for keeping other countries citizens.

These changes were brought in to make sure people do more to contribute to the keep of their foreign spouse, to relieve the burden on the UK taxpayers. This change has earned a lot of support from UK taxpayers, many of whom think the 18.6 is still too low.

A few years ago I was shocked to read on a US forum that they thought the Brits wanted to keep them when they moved to the UK. What makes people think like that?

Last edited by formula; Feb 9th 2016 at 2:07 pm.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 2:03 pm
  #34  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by formula
.... These changes were brought in to make sure people do more to contribute to the keep of their foreign spouse, to relieve the burden on the UK taxpayers. This change has earned a lot of support from UK taxpayers, many of whom think the 18.6 is still too low. ....
Exactly this!
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 3:56 pm
  #35  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by BritInParis
'No recourse to public funds' which doesn't cover all benefits nor benefits claimed in the British spouse or child.
Yes, but spouses also pay an NHS fee upfront as part of their application, even if they subsequently work and contribute to the system through their taxes. Sounds like it all works out in the wash in the end.

Last edited by Perth; Feb 9th 2016 at 5:27 pm.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 4:52 pm
  #36  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
I still don't understand how little more than the pay level I was earning over 25 years ago labouring in a warehouse is "too high". Even back then there was unemployment, high unemployment, and people saying that work was hard to find, but meanwhile my employer was constantly hiring because it was hard to find good workers. The work wasn't glamorous, but it was steady work.
Because the world has changed since 1990, the UK has changed, the economics have shifted, and while in some parts of the UK a wage of 18,600 Bpounds is not so difficult to find, in other parts it's close to impossible to get a steady, permanent post at that level of recompense because the economy has dealt a bad hand there and the jobs are low level, poorly paid and/or disappearing.

The spouse visa income requirements unfairly impact those with non-EEA spouses who are young and beginning their earning lives, the elderly at the end of their working lives (especially those who have had "unconventional" work lives), those who work in the "arts" or other enriching but less remunerative sectors, and of course those who work in any of the badly-paid but rewarding fields like health care, child care, the lower-level support and service jobs that help a society function, respond, and hold together when times are as tough as they are these days....

If everyone in X country had to make a certain salary to live there, that would truly be hell, not a viable community. The intrinsic value a person brings to his/her community is not the same as his/her wage, but very very different.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 5:27 pm
  #37  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

While "the intrinsic value a person brings to his/her community is not the same as his/her wage, but very very different" is true, one cannot get away from the fact that if one is earning a very low wage i.e at a point where benefits can be claimed, that person is not in a position to bring someone else into the UK .

£18,600 is the level of gross annual pay at which a couple would not receive income-related benefits.

There is no guarantee that the incoming spouse/partner would obtain a job; indeed several posts of this forum have shown how difficult this can be with some not working for many months; some incoming immigrants have no intention of working but start their families immediately; others have posted about the ability of bringing in their dependent parents.

Unless the sponsor is earning enough to support these spouses/partners/dependents then it is financial madness to allow them to enter the UK.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 5:35 pm
  #38  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by WEBlue
.... while in some parts of the UK a wage of £18,600 is not so difficult to find, in other parts it's close to impossible to get a steady, permanent post at that level of recompense .....
Are we talking about people or barnacles?
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 10:04 pm
  #39  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Perth
Yes, but spouses also pay an NHS fee upfront as part of their application, even if they subsequently work and contribute to the system through their taxes. Sounds like it all works out in the wash in the end.
Given that the NHS costs £1800 per person per year I'm not sure £200 is going to cover much. There's certainly a moral argument to be had about whether it is right or not to split up families and I certainly think the innate gender bias built into the requirements should be addressed but arguing that families cannot claim benefits on their return or have already paid their way through the Immigration Health Surcharge isn't going to get you very far.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 10:59 pm
  #40  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
I still don't understand how little more than the pay level I was earning over 25 years ago labouring in a warehouse is "too high". Even back then there was unemployment, high unemployment, and people saying that work was hard to find, but meanwhile my employer was constantly hiring because it was hard to find good workers. The work wasn't glamorous, but it was steady work.
I'll be totally honest. It's not actually that we have to earn £18600(i pay more than that in rent a year, i pay exactly £18,705 ($27k) in rent a year.. lol so does the uk government seriously think i cant make more than that in wages). I also don't think you should be able to bring a foreign spouse to the UK if you intend to leech off the system.

BUT

The issue is actually the fact I have to be away from my family while I find the job that'll pay me that amount, that's really the issue. I know 100% i'll make that if not 2x or 3x that in the UK.

But for me personally its the 6 month wait at the very least my family has to endure before we are back together again.

If there was a way for me to go to the UK with the understanding that within 6 months I had to have that job or my wife had to go home, then i feel that would be far more fair.

But the length of time, they would force my family to be separated is simply unbearable. I honestly think thats the real sticking point for most people. Because really, if i had to work a 20 hr day to keep my family in the UK i would and i think most people would as well.

Last edited by ldollard; Feb 9th 2016 at 11:02 pm.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 11:06 pm
  #41  
 
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by ldollard
.... the length of time, they would force my family to be separated is simply unbearable. ....
Oh puh-lease!
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 11:11 pm
  #42  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

The 200 pounds per year is a health surcharge, the foreign spouse and their British citizen partner also pay other taxes that contribute towards the NHS (eg VAT and income tax).

Do supporters of the financial requirements realize that people are knocked back for a spouse visa for being 50p per annum under the limit? Or that there are so many ways to make the criteria less onerous, yet still protect the public purse?

So what if (for example) a pensioner couple's income is 100, 1,000 or 2,000 less that the holy grail 'benefits cut-off' amount? If they're prepared to live on 16,000 pounds per year (and plenty of people do), and the 'no recourse to public funds' is enforced, then what's the problem?

Extend the no recourse to public funds period from 5 years to whatever period calms the 'sky is falling' brigade down - take the income of both the British citizen and the foreign spouse into account - allow younger couples to take up their parents' offer of free accommodation, slap an assurance of support on the parents if you have to - there is so much that can be done.

Pretty harsh, turning your backs on your fellow British citizens who, despite the sanctimonious pronouncements of some of our fine members, aren't seeking to suck at the Motherland's tit but just want to come home.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 11:15 pm
  #43  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by Pulaski
Oh puh-lease!
Wow, Pulaski. Some people actually do love their spouses/partners and children and find the prospect of being away from them for 6 months very difficult.

Like I said, the immigration debate's turning nasty.
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 11:20 pm
  #44  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by spouse of scouse
Wow, Pulaski. Some people actually do love their spouses/partners and children and find the prospect of being away from them for 6 months very difficult.

Like I said, the immigration debate's turning nasty.
Just now?
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Old Feb 9th 2016, 11:32 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Messy situation and desperate to come back to UK

Originally Posted by rebeccajo
Just now?
Worser and worser! I think I'll pick up my bat and ball and go back to Australia, at least I expect people to be bastards there
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