Originally Posted by cricket1again

I came from the poorest of backgrounds. We never had a council house or benefits. We went hungry and lived in a freezing cold house (because the electricity had been cut off) until my dad found work and got paid again.

There was no one to blame for our situation back then except ourselves. So we had to fix it, which we did.
Part of this generation's main problems are the NANNY STATE. Plus refusing to be accountable, expecting others to take responsibility, blaming someone else when it doesn't happen and then their own attitude of 'entitlement'.

The sad thing is that this attitude ie your attitude of blame, is what keeps people stuck. As long as you rely on some greater power releasing you from your own situation, often created by you, then you will stay on that same old hamster wheel going round in circles.
I'm not aiming my comments at you personally but I came from an extreme poor background, not that long ago. We got absolutely nothing. There were no handouts, no free house and benefits. We had to survive.

This early ,life gave me the impetus to break the circle and I live my life very differently today. It can be done. You just have to have a bigger vision and take responsibility for yourself.

Originally Posted by Essex_Man

I tend to agree with that.





When your working a 60-70 hour week to have a room and your making less than someone who claiming the dole. Then it becomes an issue. The high cost of rental housing is to blame which was created by thatcher selling of the council housing stock for peanuts which created the housing boom. which affect everything including retail and affectly created a country that very few can really afford to live in unless you lucky and get a council house if very hard to get any where. I believe affordable housing and higher wagers makes a better place. Canada is proof of that. altho the shit starting to hit the fan here. we still have a long way to go. but I have seen proof and I think England would be a much better place for it....

Originally Posted by Lothianlad

Britain may well have become more prosperous over the past 20 years or so taking eveything into account - in comparative terms globally there is practically nobody, absolutely nobody, in this country who can be considered "impoverished and on the breadline" - however difficult that is to believe right now with so many people losing their jobs in a (global) recession (there is always a safety net here - which some people abuse and take advantage of but there you go) - a recession which some so called economic experts believe may well be showing signs of a "green shoots recovery" on the horizon already, and in recent weeks the £ Sterling has recovered lost ground.

The Labour Party has undeniably presided over some good economic times in the UK in recent ywears but again some people maintain that is the result of the policies of the former Conservative Government to a certain degree rather than any mind blowing miracles performed by Labour.

Where Labour has really fallen down on its backside involves a moral decline rather than an economic one. Since 1997 when Labour came to power the social and moral fabric of this country has really taken a nosedive in very many quarters and this can be seen by the standards of behaviour of large sections of the population, especially in the present generation now growing up (no - I am not an old man - I am 27 years old and studied English and social history in the UK at uni). Social disorder has increased appreciably, and very many young people below the age of 25 or so have little or no respect for authority simply because of political correctness for the most part which has taught them to believe that they have rights but no responsibilities, and a criminal justice system which really does appear to show more concern for the perpetrators of crime than for its victims.

Whacking a burglar in your own home over the head with the nearest available object will invariably land you in court while the burglar receives counselling. People have been stabbed to death for defending their property and their loved ones - not isolated cases either! - the killers being young males for the most part who are so de-sensitised morally and spiritually that they are totally incapable of understanding the meaning of words like regret or remorse....all that is totally beynd their capabilities so inured have they become to what has been happening to British society in recent years - most certainly since May 1997 and "New" Labour. There is little or no fear of punishment in these criminals simply because punishment is not anything like it should be in the UK - British prisons are a doddle in far too many ways - there is more concern for the rehabiliation and future welfare of even the most hardened of the criminal lowlife than there is for truly effective punishment.

Family life in many instances has fallen apart, the UK has the highest abortion, single parenthood, divorce, juvenile crime rates in Europe and the massive rise in alcohol and drug abuse over the past five to ten years, with all the problems that all this causes, is now legendary.

Labour is fantastically good at producing a whole lot of fantastically good schemes and plans for solving this problem and that problem - all produced in very glossy documents - but that's as far as it ever goes. The latest report today shows that their handling of the chronic asylum seeker problem - a huge influx of migrants from the Third World - has been nothing less than a chaotic shambles. Out of the very many thousands of such people falling into this category only one family has been deported. Huge numbers of people who are registered for deportation from this overcrowded island nation of ours are still here after God knows how many years - and many of these mysteriously disappear into the ether - never to be seen again officially - probably still here claiming social welfare benefits by the use of stolen NI numbers, free housing, free healthcare and heaven only knows what else for which the hardworking (those of us still with jobs) are paying out of our grudgingly but dutifully paid taxes.

Originally Posted by JulieinAustin

It's all swings and roundabouts though in my opinion.. totally agree with you about rental housing being really expensive in the UK (but this does depend on where), but there are so many other things that are affordable there that are not so affordable here in the US... i.e. your average Brit can afford to take a foreign holiday somewhere at least once a year and doesn't have to worry about the cost of healthcare or the expense of maintaining a car; here your car is like your legs; back in the UK you can get away with not having one in many places. Education is much more affordable in the UK; pretty much everyone can better themselves if they really want to, whereas in the US if you don't have money; it's very expensive to go and learn something new; unless you're lucky enough to get a scholarship.

I can't speak for Canada, but I have seen people really struggle here in the US; so much so that I do believe that the Brits are generally better off in many ways. I know many people here that can only dream about flying off to far flung corners of the globe for exotic holidays... and have to live in hope that god forbid they never get sick.. and some that literally can't get out and about because they're driving a crappy and unreliable car and can't afford to break down somewhere and public transport is non existent. I personally think that the Brits are pretty well off compared to many places around the world; so I don't think poverty etc. can be used as an excuse for the high crime rate and its social problems.

Originally Posted by Funky Monkey

You are right maybe I have not been over to the eastern states. I am not a godzoner in fact very far from it. I was well travelled all over the U.K and I am well balanced. Here in Perth there is no doubt in my mind that it is way behind the U.K in many aspects of the social troubles they have with the youngsters. Kids are kids here longer and I see far less random vandalism here than in the U.K. Yes there are hassles but I find the kids better behaved here in general, yes there is more graffitti but maybe they don't clean it up as much.

Originally Posted by ForzaItalia21

Got a bit carried away there.

Marxist, in terms of thought control, big brother, everyone being equal and adhering to a political agenda. For example in our town in the UK competitive sports day races are banned because 'everyone has to be a winner', but real life isn't like that.

Did you know that Gordon Brown used to be a Marxist in his earlier days?

Originally Posted by the troubadour

The decline in social bbehaviorcommenced long before New Labour in fact before you were born and was well in place during the Conservative Thatcher rule.In fact one can argue to what degree she and her government played their part in the social decline,many would say to a substantial part with her policies creating divisions within society and rampant greed.
New Labour just more or less continued a good deal that was already in place from the previous government but saying that the problems started far earlier and i have yet to hear of an convincing aargumentstating the reasons for the often stated decline in British youth.
Why do not the same problems happen in Germany or France or Spain?

Originally Posted by the troubadour

Any thoughts on why this should be so?

Originally Posted by Funky Monkey

I work on my own and maybe have too much time to think .

Sadly I don't know the answer and I feel that people focus too much on the U.K's problems and forget it is happening worldwide which has been mentioned on previous posts.

I know nowhere is perfect and we have to accept the world is constantly changing.We can talk all day long about comparisons between countries but I really think that the U.K is overcrowded and this adds to peoples pent up anger.

I travelled to different locations on a daily basis in the U.K for work and it takes ages to travel to many areas in the U.K. sometimes only covering 25 miles or so. A lot of people are wound up before the day even starts.

One town is almost merging into the next and it is becoming one big sprawl, and if you live in a village you will still no doubt have a nightmare getting to and from work. Most people live on an estate where other houses and people are "in your face" and again this can lead to problems.
I know people will say that there is tranquility in the U.K but it is for the few who can afford it in many cases and most of us have to put up with the masses.

In Perth anyway I find the space and commute so much better. I do not prefer Perth and have struggled here and may return but if you come from the U.K and are one of the many that really take to it then it is a no brainer in a lot of ways.

I also think that the U.K being overcrowded makes for a a more aggresive society compared to Australia. I also like the "can do" (or can't do)attitude of a lot of Australians.
I have commented so many times to people here that multi culturalism also seems to work here and people get alongcompared to a lot of areas in the U.K, again is this a space thing?
Who knows I certainly don,t

Originally Posted by livinginreality

I've just returned from Australia,and I can tell you honestly,I spoke to alot of people who are very unhappy about the multi culturalism,and yes its in their faces as well!The more I travel around the UK,the more I realise how much space there really is?I've just travelled down to Cornwall over last weekend,and yes again amazed at how open and rural it is,and there are alot of places like that in the UK,its not all sprawling industrialised cities!!! I live in a small town,and lucky for me I also live on the fringe of it,so 5 minutes walk,I am into the open countryside and we're certainly not well off!

Originally Posted by Funky Monkey

It's good you feel like that you are certainly not seeing it the same way as me. The U.K has lot's of space are you for real!!,you even put a question mark after your own comment about space.
I have been to Devon and Cornwall and the job market is limited, again it's all about perception.There are lot's of places I would love to live in in the U.K if I did not need to earn a half decent wage which if you do you will mostly need to live in the urban "sprawl".

Originally Posted by livinginreality

In reference to your comment about me putting a question mark after space,thats just my aussie accent coming out I'm afraid!Well to be honest alot of people go on about feeling cramped ect,I don't see that where I live!I repeat,we are not high earners and live rurally!!!I wonder if someone squashed the bits of Oz that are "liveable"cities ect,and small country towns and took out the outback,how much "space"would you have then?are you the person who said the Uk was a dump?I find that quite offensive actually,but I guess it depends what part you're from right?

Originally Posted by Essex_Man

I'm not asking whether the government should be morally responsible. But I'm blame the last government for making Britain to expensive for the average working man/woman. Which both governments have fail to do......if only we could have Britain like Canada it truly would be a even better place. Low wages equals poverty and crime and hurts everyone. Just like Britain is hurting now IMO.