nun

I've posted a couple of threads with this theme in an attempt to gauge people's thoughts of the police. Each time I read about what I consider a "mis-step" by the UK police my opinion falls to new lows. A couple have been particularly worrying to me:

spying on the Lawrence family, bringing a malicious prosecution against one of Stephen Lawrence's friends and bugging client and lawyer conversations;

and the recent holding of Mr. Miranda at Heathrow.

The argument that "the innocent have nothing to fear", now seems to be "the supine have nothing to fear".

Sally Redux

I agree with you but I'm not sure how to vote. I assume they're reasonably competent on run-of-the-mill issues but institutional racism exists and they will tend to work against individual liberty.

kwazywabbit

I can only go on my experiences and I have never had an issues with the police.
Its a tough job to do and with tough times, what with global terrorism even tougher to please everyone and make every everyone feel safe.

Sally Redux

I suppose the point is that they are stretching the definition of 'terrorist'.

chris955

I have never had the slighest issue with the UK Police and have always found them friendly helpful and approachable but like the Police Force in every other country in the world there are bad apples and mistakes, it shouldnt come as a surprise to anyone. If I had to rely on the Police I would certainly want them to be be British.

kwazywabbit

The problem is when your put under that amount of pressure to make sure no terrorist incidents happen your bound to make mistakes.

kwazywabbit

I agree with you Chris955.
Only today a Toronto cop has been charged with 2nd degree murder.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...r-charged.html

nun

I've only had one issue with the police and that was when I was taking pictures of St. Paul's, other than that the few interactions I've had have been fine. But that doesn't stop me worrying about how others are treated. The definition of "terrorism" seems to be expanding to cover anyone who annoys those in power. The whole Lawrence saga is frightening as it looks as if the police didn't want to catch the killers, but then they compounded that by going after the activists and family of the victim. One or two such events could be put down to a few bad apples, but the you think of Hillsborough, Plebgate, phone hacking...the list is just too long. The PC on the beat might be ok, as long as you look like him/her, but I have my doubts about police management.

chris955

Exactly, our Police are definitely near the top of the heap in developed countries. Having lived most of my life in Australia I know all about widespread corruption and misuse of power.

kwazywabbit

I haven't heard much of the Lawrence case as I live in Calgary at the moment. I will do some reading to get up to speed before I comment on that.
They must be getting these orders/powers form the government aren't they just as much to blame as the police management?

nun

Well the UK Government says it never directs police actions.....I don't really believe that, especially when it comes to terrorism......so yes the politicians are also to blame. That's a worrying combination for personal liberty.

Sally Redux

Yes, this is the worry I think.

chris955

I cant say I have any fears for my personal liberties, I have been hearing this for decades and I still see no difference.

kwazywabbit

I agree with you! its a dangerous game to play! That is the main problem with banding the word terrorism or national security. Suddenly liberty is pushed aside for the greater good!

BritInParis

The police in the UK are very good for the man in the street - the problems arise when politics get involved. In both the Lawrence and Miranda cases the police are been given their marching orders from politicians about high profile cases that have embarrassed the government. Even in those cases it's reassuring that people have been outraged - it shows to how high a standard we hold them to.