rjay

I've just located this which posted on a Thai forum back in 2007, just after my visit to Penang. Acknowledged that this was my personal perception back at that time based on a short visit, and I didn't get to see the whole island:

Malaysia & the MM2H scheme - a suitable alternative?

I am aware that a number of members, including myself, have given thought to moving to Malaysia, as an alternative to Thailand, primarily to gain greater security in terms of being able to live on a long term basis, without the worry and hassles, vagaries and whims of Thai Immigration and moving goal posts, amongst other things.

Well, I recently took a trip to Penang to assess whether it was a suitable place (for me) to establish a base and apply for a 10 year Visa through their MM2H scheme.

This is an edited summary of my thoughts and observations.

Prior to my visit to Penang, I did quite a bit of research via the Internet, and came across "Alter Domus" a relocation service, specialising in the Malaysian MM2H programme.

So whilst we were there, I met with the MD, a Penang guy whose family run the relocation service. Very helpful and very professional. He gave us a (free) 1+ hour talk on:- the MM2H programme, on Penang and living in Penang, and then for RM 100 (Ringit), I let him take us on a 3 hour tour of Penang. During which time he explained and pointed out, and I was able to see first hand and ask questions about anything and everything, - including areas to live, types of property, condos etc, which were the more & less desirable or expensive areas, traffic issues, prices of property, what is included etc etc.

He took us to and past many of the Condo tower blocks that one might live in, and we saw what was close to them in terms of shops, facilities etc. Generally speaking construction standards and facilities were very good, prices higher than Thailand and probably higher than much of Malaysia, but not dramatically so.

At the end of the day though, I don't think it is what I would want. I think one would feel cooped up and isolated in almost a prison like environment, (in one of the very many condos). One's day would likely consist of a walk or more likely drive to the local shopping mall, or sea front area, or into town.

It was rather like an upmarket Bangkok. The island seemed crowded and cramped with much high rise accommodation, too much traffic, though not too much nightlife - which is very localised to one particular area and relatively expensive, as were most things compared to Thailand.

There wouldn't be any of the same type of social interaction with local people, as with girls in bars/massage shops etc., that one gets in Thailand. So it would be a more sober life style in all respects! (Don't get me wrong, the people are friendly, but there isn't the laugh and joke, type of behaviour you get in LOS).

On the positive side, things were very well structured and the traffic, driving standards and the roads a joy to behold, (I never saw anyone on a motorbike without a helmet, even once when I saw 3 on one bike, - they each had a helmet!). But the inner city rat race just didn't appeal, which is predominantly what it is!

Yes, Penang has a very British influenced feel about it, but it is nevertheless a busy working city environment. At the weekend it receives a large influx of Malaysian and other tourists and visitors.

What is worth noting is that the MM2H Visa scheme is available to people over 50, putting RM 150K in a Malaysian bank account, and demonstrating that you have at least another RM 350K+ cash somewhere else. You can then get a 10 year Visa (multiple exit and re-entry) - you don't need to buy property there if you don't want to. You don't even have to stay there, if you don't want to. You could rent, live away and/or just visit from time to time, whatever!

The guy I spoke to, said that the adjoining mainland Malaysia (i.e. Butterworth) would be too quiet and lacking in facilities, particularly nightlife and too parochial (my phrase). Obviously KL would only mirror the inner city life, - densely populated and heavily trafficked. Elsewhere - i.e. more remote places in Malaysia would likely only exacerbate the lack of facilities, nightlife, etc, situation.

Certainly English is widely spoken and there were many English language programmes on TV.

So all in all, I don't think Penang or Malaysia is for me. I think one must look for somewhere that has not yet been discovered, rather than somewhere that has already, or long since, been discovered and is now suffering the consequences and commercialisation!!

bakedbean

Thanks for that rjay, though I think I'd probably disagree with most of it. The driving here is pretty bad I would have to say, though not quite as bad as Phuket. There's certainly plenty of locals to mix with. Maybe Alter Domus wrongly assumed you'd want to be with other expats.

Alter Domus are quite expensive agents, though I know several people who used them for the visa and were satisfied.

I get the feeling you were looking for somewhere quiet and remote. That's OK when you're younger. Horses for courses eh?

ajw

Somewhere quiet and remote with bar girls and massage shops?

rjay

Agreed different people have different tastes, desires and objectives, and my look at Penang was only brief. Also, I didn't get to look at the western side/coast. Yes, it's true to say I was looking for somewhere a bit quieter for when I'm older. I can and do drive in Thailand, though I prefer to avoid the hassles and wide (read poor) standards of driving involved, and particularly inner city situations.

I like to walk (for exercise and to enjoy scenery), though invariably a difficult one in Asia with its high humidity.

Shopping malls are always useful, as they bring respite from heat or rain, as well as provide places to eat or drink, or do shopping.

bakedbean

I imagine that the climate in Isaan is more tolerable than Penang. Must be nice.

I'm just going to get back on topic and play devil's advocate a wee bit.

You see, I think from a more practical viewpoint re retirement, Malaysia has a lot going for it. Penang has some good hospitals and medical facilities and you can communicate in English and it's cheap as chips. I reckon it's something to consider.

Rjay how do you get on in Isaan? Have you learnt Thai?

rjay

At the risk of taking the thread off topic, the climate in Issan is still hot here, but not as humid/sticky as southern Thailand or I assume Penang and Malaysia. It can still get very hot, sometimes reaching 38C, as it was last month. We are now into the rainy season which cools things down. We also do have a more noticeable cool/cold season here, usually between Dec and Feb when it can actually be cool and cold at night (say 25C daytime and 16C nighttime).

Issan and the area where I live (Nong Khai) is very flat and therefore visually rather uninteresting. No hills to climb. Though we do have the Mekong river to look at.

Yes, I can speak some Thai, but being a tonal language, the natives often don't understand me, because I haven't used the correct tone. It's helpful though when ordering food or drink or making polite conversation.

From my own idealistic perspective, I would like to live somewhere where it is quiet, but to have shops, shopping malls, a city's amenities and some hills all on one's doorstep or close by! Of course one doesn't get multiple large shopping malls in small towns.

Back on topic, I never got to explore the north western side of Penang, which may provide a quieter and more rural lifestyle, whilst still being within reach of the city type facilities of Georgetown itself.

Apart from KL, which as a large capital city is somewhere I wouldn't want to live, I didn't get to visit any other towns in Malaysia.

A big attraction or advantage with Malaysia is the fact that through the MM2H scheme one can obtain a 10 year visa along with the peace of mind and security that gives. In Thailand the Retirement visa is a 1 year visa, which can be extended on an annual basis, subject to the various criteria being met each year. One also has to report to Immigration every 90 days to confirm your current address.

Hope the above will be of interest to some.

Regards

bakedbean

Thanks rjay, that's interesting. 16C...wow not seen that for a long long while. I would freeze at that temperature

I used to have the Thai retirement visa. It's swings and roundabouts. It's a much easier visa to get compared with MM2H. The 90 day reporting used to drive me nuts though. With MM2H I do like the fact that I don't have to go to Immigration for several years, though always depends on passport expiry and spouse's passport expiry too.

the troubadour

Good luck on finding somewhere not discovered. From what I've found to date Cambodia appears one of the easier but not a place perhaps for old age. That is the problem few countries fit the bill for the later stage of life when hospital and medical standards become important.

I live in hope that Indonesia may make it easier to retire in although many Australians are moving up to Bali in recent years to get more value for their bucks. There was a report on local tv tonight about it and the ease that it can be done. Sadly missed it.

Must admit I'm not sold on Penang these days. First went there in the 70s and liked it and made numerous visits in the 80s when living in Malaysia and found it okay. Somehow the past few visits I didn't really dislike it but found it lacking..

Perhaps Burma may be one of the undiscovered places ou write about given a bit more time?

Davita

Bali is very popular with Australians and Dutch and some others who wish to retire. It is relatively easy to get a retirement visa if one spouse is over 55.
Please see the sister site BE Indonesia where I've explained my own situation.
The rest of Indonesia has the same visa availability but is generally only accepted by those with an Indonesian spouse, or a job.

nonthaburi

I have a house in Isaan near to the Cambodian border and the weather is definitely more variable . I've seen it go to 44 in the shade in April and 12 at night at Christmas where everyone sits around a fire at night . It's also around that time that you see Thais sitting in the sun in the daytime all wrapped up in the morning . Driving back from the market on the motorbike after 5pm is freezing .

I'd try to learn Laos not Thai if I was you as that is what everyone speaks in Nong Khai .

Countryside is pretty boring throughout most of Isaan that's for sure .

Do you go to Udon much ? I was there a month or so ago on my way back from Laos and it was a good night out .

bakedbean

I know it's a bit off topic, but we are talking retirement on this thread, mainly Malaysia, but do you think Isaan is good place for a senior? Any single western females there?

nonthaburi

Speaking from a personal point of view I do intend to retire in Isaan but that's because of a few very good reasons . My wife is from there , we have a house there , and there is a good network of family around so I wouldn't be lonely . There are lots of foreigners there as well although it takes a while to find them . Apart from the major cities there is nothing geared up for foreigners and why would there be .

I really like Isaan now , I say now because when I first went to live there when my wife was pregnant with our first child I hated it , probably a lot of that was to do with living with my MIL in a house right next to a road which was so noisy , but alot of it was to do with the language too .

I already spoke Thai quite well at that point having lived down South for many years but I wasn't prepared for the fact that no one spoke Thai amongst themselves and I felt really excluded . Plus the fact that I was the only whitey in the village I felt a bit left out .

But we built our own house where I wanted it ,i.e. somewhere quiet with a view and I started to get a lot of what people were going on about . I've done a lot of work on the garden and the soil is so fertile it's great .

Most foreigners there are retired , I must be the youngest person around by a least 15-20 years . Many are married to women of dubious backgrounds many years there junior . If you don't have some kind of Thai connection there then forget it because it will be a nightmare due to language barriers ( no one speaks English ) and getting ripped off.

Having said that I find the people in Isaan the nicest in Thailand but then again they have to be nice to me there because I'm related to many of them !

I am talking about in the country though , in a big city like Korat it's going to be different . Another things is that Isaan is an absolutely huge area so you can't really say what it's like apart from in very general terms .

They like to eat a lot of bugs .
They like drinking very early in the morning.
They're good fun .
It's hot .
They're good farmers .
They make up 25 million out of a population of 65 and that is why there vote counts as one now exiled politician realised to his benefit.

bakedbean

Mr Nonthaburi, and very informative.

So.... anybody thinking about retiring to Malaysia? Any questions? Anything puzzling you?

bakedbean

New thresholds just been announced for Foreigners buying in Penang, and a reduced threshold for MM2Hers... hurrah

I've started a new thread here

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showt...6#post10147016

abdulawwal

Hi everyone,

Interesting read. 3rd best retirement spot in the world!

http://www.theedgemalaysia.com/lifes...the-world.html