RedApe

Revisions just announced to Sarawak MM2H to "increase participation" and to get "quality applicants".

I think they will actually see the opposite effect unless the press conference did not cover all the provisions....it looks like it was written by the property agents.

Already back-dated to be effective as of September 1st, 2020.

https://www.theborneopost.com/2020/09/0 … oreigners/

Here are some of the highlights:

1) New category 40 and 50-years-old - Must invest in property, specifically for residential purposes with a total amount of at least RM600,000. [So good...but bad...not sure who will buy property at that age for a five year visa]

2) Increase in Fixed deposit -
From RM100,000 to RM150,000 for individuals
From RM150,000 to RM300,000 for couples.

[No mention if the will retain the "proof of salary" option, or if withdrawals will increase.
I had advised them that the FD actually does not bring economic benefit to Sarawak...unless it can be spent within Sarawak.
This actually is a negative for application numbers and for economic benefit to Sarawak]

3) Minimum for House/Condo Purchase increases
From RM350,000 to RM600,000 for Kuching division
From RM300,000 to RM500,000 for other divisions in Sarawak

[This could actually reduce the purchase of housing and condos by participants]

4) Residency Requirement
All S-MM2H pass holders need to stay a minimum of 15 days per year in the state to qualify them for a renewal of S-MM2H pass after five years.
[Unclear if this is every year or if it can be concentrated in one visit of 2.5 months? In either case it's probably not too onerous...unless something occurs to prevent entry into Malaysia/Sarawak]

5) Dependents
[There has been an expansion of the types of dependents who may come. This makes sense as they are lower the age of application Over all a good idea. More dependents means more money flowing into the economy.]
Previously parents of the applicants were not allowed now parents may also be awarded a visa. Previously children above 18 were not allowed now children below the age of 21 and not married are allowed to accompany the applicants,


6) Health Insurance
Applicants are required to purchase medical insurance for themselves and dependents.
[Prior to this there was no insurance requirement and the applicant was expected to pay costs over-the-counter. Is there an option to demonstrate sufficient coverage on alternative insurance schemes?]

7) Letter of Good Conduct:
Applicants would need to submit a letter of good conduct from relevant government authorities in their home country and the S-MM2H pass can be revoked if participants had any criminal offences.
[Home country or country of long-term residence?]

8) Security Bond:
“The imposition of security or personal bonds to act as a refundable security deposit in case of any breach or non-compliance to the Immigration Ordinance or Regulations or when unexpected incidents happen to S-MM2H participants and can be used for cost of deportation if necessary”
[It's unclear if this is required in lieu of a sponsor, as on the Peninsula, or how much is required. It is refundable. Probably not a major impediment.]

7) Processing: An establishment of a one-stop panel comprising of multiple government agencies to approve S-MM2H applications. This will ensure that all applications are processed and approved promptly and efficiently.

[Unclear benefit. Sarawak already had a fairly fast approval rate. What really is needed is a prominent campaign to promote the program].

8) Agents/Sponsors
It seems that they will continue to require sponsors (or maybe only if the applicant uses an agent)...the major issue with applications. However "agents registered with the state ministry are now allow to submit an application on behalf of applicants, to ease the difficulties faced by applicants in finding a sponsor, while helping tourism agencies in the state to be S-MM2H agents."

[Unless there is an option to apply individually, without a sponsor, the problem of finding a sponsor continues. Why have a sponsor that "vouches" for you if you can just "buy one"? It takes any "security value" out of having a sponsor. Of course the approving Ministries will generate income by licensing fees. What are the requirements to become a SMM2H sponsor? Do they require a Sarawak co-director? What are the fees?]

Any new applications after September 1st would be required to abide by the new regulations. So they backdated the policy so that those attempting to get grandfathered in cannot take the earlier option.

I'll likely stroll over to the Ministry of Tourism on Monday to find out more about the new program. There's no information on whether people can still reside in the peninsula....or some other issues.
[BTW I was not invited to the Press Conference to ask questions]

ssoomro

I am ROFL (Rolling on the floor laughing) reading RA's post on new requirements of S-MM2H program... So a bunch of bureaucrats/pols got together and decided to put together a "program to ATTRACT foreign retirees"...and set about every stipulation that a foreigner may find hard to overcome or unreasonable (if not outright repugnant) ... soooo Orwellian .....two things specially stick out to me.. the requirement for under-50 applicants to buy a home first .. is HILARIOUS .. as RA pointed out .. these ppl are more likely to still be working with smaller nest egg and for them to commit to a serious investment upfront....for a 5 year stay visa ? i can already hear the stampede outside the ministry office .. 40-something pushing and shoving each other to try and get to the application window..this new requirement is going to break all records of participation


Frankly to me the whole sponsorship requirement has been the least favorite part of S-MM2H .. it may be unique for this kind of program (i think Indonesia may have similar requirement somewhere..conjuring up this kindda stuff seems to be common in Malay and Indo systems ..hahaha) .. my concern is the subjectivity and arbitrary nature of it.. i can understand if the sponsorship comes from someone who knows you for some time..has had business/personal dealings with you and can vouch for your 'character and trustworthiness' ... but its seems any joe on the street can be convinced under the influence of some silver to vouch for you.. no questions asked.. so why is it really there.. is it some pol' idea to get the local some silver ? wonder what does the plank at the door says ... as the motto of the department ...let me guess...""I am looking for Intellect....but absurdity defines me"

RedApe

I spent a good hour and a half yesterday discussing the new conditions with the young lady that is assigned to administer the Sarawak MM2H. I realize that she is not the one that decided this nor can she provide much input for change. Everything was cordial and I didn't complain nor moan nor gripe. She did drop some hints as to why some of the provisions were included. Squeaky wheels and too many cooks...or rather allowing front counter fast-food staff into a gourmet kitchen.

So I have some useful information.

1) First off...everyone on the current visa, or who has been approved under the old rules will be grandfathered in.

2) They will however be subject to the increase in the Housing Floor up to RM600,000. This edict came from the Housing and Land Ministry in 2019 (who knew?). Every foreign buyer of property is now subject to this elevated floor (it was RM300K). It's interesting that as Peninsula Malaysia lowered their floor to RM600K to encourage the reduction of overhang (vacant units), Sarawak raised their floor to RM600K...even though there is considerable overhang here as well.

3) The 40-50 year old option was going to require purchase at RM300K (~ US$ 75,000) but the Housing Board changed the number...hence RM600K (~US$ 150,000). [I still don't think very many under 50's will buy at that number...but we''ll see]. The bad news is that the applicant has to purchase and obtain the title prior to submission...they have to shop around on a tourist visa. And I don't think they can use the Property as an approved withdrawal from the FD (since one can only do that 1 year later...maybe on a mortgage?) Oh and everybody (even those "grandfathered and now wanting to buy a place)...is subject to the"new floor". How this will work for those wanting to build their dream palace or just wanting a little one-room beach chalet or cottage in the boonies??? Maybe just have to rent?

4) Good news for new applicants wanting security ...they have changed the term of the visa from 5 Years to 10 Years. Of course Sarawak renewals were, under the old system "simply a formality". So now one has to pay the visa fees for a decade, non-refundable if you drop out or change visas. That might mean that those who have children in school may want to wait off adding them as dependents...as they will need to get student visas.

5) The 15 day/year Visitation Requirement doesn't seem too onerous for someone living in SE Asia. But if you need to go home fora year to work, care for a relative, deal with healthcare, etc. and you "miss a year" it could be problematical. I asked if someone could "front-load" the residency by staying 10 months in Sarawak and then vagabonding about. She did not think that would be allowed. Personally ambivalent...this still allows people to live on the Peninsula with only a minimal amount of time in Sarawak. It's a band aid solution. I would have preferred a 2-3 month required residence although one could front-load, back load, or adjust it in any manner that fits your life. Also it seems that people can skip the requirement entirely and just get a 10 Year visa and not renew it.

5) Although they doubled the FD (I still don't understand want benefit the FD has for Sarawak)...they kept the Salary/Pension requirement the same!!! RM7000/mo (single) OR RM10,000/mo (couple). And the choice/option of showing one has a Fixed Deposit OR Adequate Income/Pension remains either/or. ..,.not AND.

6) Security bond and Agents/Sponsors. Sponsors are still mandatory (ugh) but they only have to sign a promissory note. Agents must be Sarawakian (at least the 51% owners of a registered Sarawak MM2H Company must be Sarawakian). There are none as yet. Hopefully they don't require expense training courses with no relevance to Sarawak MM2H on the Peninsula. They must have RM50,000 paid up capita, local office, and some other things. So for individual applicants there is still the issue of finding a sponsor...at least in the short term.

In addition a sponsor will be allowed to sponsor ONLY ONE Applicant or Family (unclear if this is at a time or per year). All applications must be hand-delivered to the MM2H One-Stop Office by the Applicant. No more using an agent or the sponsor to deliver the application. And only the Kuching MOTAC office will accept applications. Apparently illegal agents on the Peninsula were using surrogates and submitting phony health checks (from someone else) and even when suspicion was thrown on them they went to the Immigration offices in other cities to submit. All these measures were done to restrict illegal agents. Hopefully their Sarawak surrogates will come out of the cold and register their own companies locally and "a thousand flowers will bloom" with different services and fee levels and competitive pricing.

Epicurious

Many thanks, RedApe, for all your efforts to shape SMM2H into a better programme. It's a great shame that your recommendations were ignored.

The clarifications you obtained from MoTaC are very useful. I just have a few clarification questions and observations:

1. By grandfathered in, I assume you mean that when renewal comes around for current SMM2H holders, the same conditions will apply as when we first signed up: specifically, no requirement to spend any time at all in Sarawak, no increase in the FD, no need to provide a letter of good conduct or medical insurance? And we will get another five years, not ten? Only the increased floor price in real estate applies.

2. I can't see this increase making much difference to the sales market, but landlords will be happy. I might have considered buying a unit for only 300k. No way I'll buy a potential 600k albatross with just a 5 year pass.

3. Buy a 600k unit before knowing you can actually live in it year round? That's an expensive holiday home for those under 50 if the pass is refused.

4. Good news for new applicants, softening the blow of tighter criteria.

5. 15 days per year is pretty lenient. But much more than that with no option to front load it and I would be looking at Central America (if I wasn't already grandfathered in).

5b. (Two number 5s) The either/or option for FD or income is much better than the Peninsula!

6. It's good that they are putting the agents on a firmer legal footing than existed previously. BUT "a thousand flowers will bloom"? I'll believe that when I see it. I predict that once Peninsular MM2H reopens then SMM2H applications will drop dramatically, to levels below the historical average, and the enduring sponsor requirement will always suppress numbers. Consequently there just won't be enough applicants to Kuching to keep several agents in business beyond the next few months.

Overall I give these reforms two stars.

SushiFan

That will largely depend on how draconian the new requirements for the Peninsular MM2H will be, compared to the SMM2H requirements.

RedApe

Exactly. Those on earlier visas will still receive the privileges and requirements that they had when they were approved. So they do not have the visitation requirement. They can spend all, or no, time in Sarawak or Malaysia. No Letter of Good Conduct upon renewal, no proof of insurance. In fact, they don't have to have a sponsor at renewal (at least they don't have to submit those forms, but the Immigration officer when I received my visa said no more need for a sponsor). One still only gets the 5 Year Visa, which I suppose is a negative. But as long as the renewal is perfunctory and one doesn't do a no-no, then it should be no issue. Yes...the higher floor for buying property does apply...so my dream of a fairly cheap jungle bungalow or beach side chalet are out the veranda...though maybe I could "two-for" or simply rent.

I looked at a couple of real estate sites and most of the Condos are now under RM600. Maybe if you got one with 4BR and new furniture or something. While there were some cheap houses (mainly attached or over shop-houses) in Kuching (and more often found in kampongs or rural areas the decent ones are over RM600K. Yes, it might stop the housing overhang for rentals, but the sales will likely be hit. I don't understand having a floor when there are lots of vacancies at all levels of housing. It's not reducing the overhang. Now they are considering a vacancy fine in the Peninsula because the reduction of floor didn't help.

It seems to me that one would want a highly attractive MM2H program if you want to sell or rent more properties with having to cut prices considerably? You have too much supply...you need to increase demand. But whadda I know?

Yeah one of my proposals was to allow all the documents to be sent in on line, including scans of the financials, the Letter of Good conduct, etc. These are then reviewed in advance, including a background check and a letter of Prospective Approval is transmitted. This allows one to come in and get a 3 month visa which prevents being charged the Journey Performed fee. One can then get the FD (if needed) do your Health check, etc. I was hoping that they'd eliminate the sponsor so there would be no wait at all (no interview or need to do the background check after one arrives) once you did those other things they just need to see the HC, FD and the original documents to compare them with the scans. If they match you could head down to the bursar and pay all the fees. Keeping the sponsor, involving agents, and this 40-50 property requirement put the kibosh in that...at least for many groups. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, but Sarawak really doesn't get much back from you those living FT in the Peninsula I suspect...Sarawak's program gave (and still will) a lot of flexibility for those living on the Peninsula with little if anything in return. I think even the visa fees go into the Federal Budget. Can't figure out the value to Sarawak of the FD that's put in some Malaysia-wide or even International bank. How does Sarawak benefit from that money...it comes in, it's parked, gains interest, and then goes back out? That money would be better off, for Sarawak, if it were spent in Sarawak. Increasing the FD actually reduces the liquidity that someone would have to spend on other things. But you are right, too onerous a requirement would drive people away from applying. Most people came to Sarawak because of the poor speed of approval and other cock-ups with MM2H in West Malaysia. It was perfectly legit, under the rules for them to use "the back door".

I had suggested that they use a carrot, and maybe a mild stick.To me one month a year residency -that could be all at once, or spread out seems reasonable for a ten year visa. That's 10 month's residence for a decade of visa. That way it would prevent a situation where someone got sick and missed the 15 days a year visit...or Covid-19 situations like what we're currently in. Then they are clean out of being able to renew. Allowing one to parcel out the stays as one wishes allows one to catch up. And they should have some sort of midterm check up. Otherwise someone could just take the visa and run...they'd get their ten years and wouldn't spend a minute more in Sarawak than to do the health check, submit forms and pick up the visa stamps.

The carrot would be more on the order of perks that could ONLY be used in Sarawak. For example making the FD available for rent, housekeepers, local restaurants, domestic tourism, crafts, textiles, club memberships, etc. as well as the car/education/health/property withdrawals. [/QUOTE]

6. It's good that they are putting the agents on a firmer legal footing than existed previously. BUT "a thousand flowers will bloom"? I'll believe that when I see it. I predict that once Peninsular MM2H reopens then SMM2H applications will drop dramatically, to levels below the historical average, and the enduring sponsor requirement will always suppress numbers. Consequently there just won't be enough applicants to Kuching to keep several agents in business beyond the next few months.
Overall I give these reforms two stars.[/QUOTE].

It could be worse than that. No agents at all. If they have to go the the Peninsula to train in useless workshops that give them no skills. If they start promoting a program that have no facilitators then it will be a failure. That's why I proposed getting rid of sponsors altogether and replacing it with an up-front submission of the refundable Personal Bond at MM2H. Then you get rid of this fake sense that someone is actually vouching for someone. You'd speed up the processing of the application by about two weeks, as well. If they don't get applications and the realtors state complaining maybe they'll "revise the revision".

relax33

Hi,
need some advise
Given the latest developments, do you think its better for me to put 800k bht in Thai FD to get the Thai Retirement visa (RV), to apply for the S-MM2H or to wait for the peninsula MM2H to be re-opened n apply for it
The Thai RV can be easily obtained without using an agent , property prices are at market rate but i would have to use a Thai proxy to buy a landed house (ie either set up a company or use the name of a Thai local to buy it)

The peninsula MM2H has this income requirement that I can still fulfil if it goes up to 16k but renewing might be problematic if it goes up by a lot in 10 year's time, its also a little tedious to have to gather n submit tax returns for the income n may require a year to obtain the visa

The S-MM2H looks appealing n requires less time to get but I have never stayed in Sarawak though many say Kuching is nicer than KK
not really into women, beer or alcohol so just need a safe place with modern amenities n convenience n without serious noise or air pollution to live in
Like to avoid the big city n stay in places like Penang, Krabi, Koh Samui or Chiangmai

RedApe

Kuching is more easy going than Penang and less touristy. Main vice in Sarawak is food. Very small resident expat community which might be off-putting to some. Some people consider it boring as it isn't a spot where one can see modern international bands regularly in local venues, etc. There are (or were pre-Covid) the Rainforest World Music Festival, Waterfront Jazz Festival, County Music Festival, etc. where good quality international bands would appear. Also local bands are quite good and play free shows on the waterfront. High percentage of English speakers. Not really a drinking, drug, party, and sex culture and safe as milk (biggest crime seems to be motorbike theft or violations of the Covid mask-wearing/social distancing/check in directives). Violent crime is (sadly) almost limited to domestic violence and a rare case of money-lending/ganbling/gangsterism thuggery within that group. Also some internet scams usually based on get-rich schemes or romance. I've noticed reports of people getting caught in bit-coin mining electricity theft and beer smuggling. Tourism is seasonal (mainly European holiday months) from May-September but has been badly hit by Covid. 5 National Parks and another 7 State Parks within one-two hours of Kuching..with forests, beaches, mangrove, hill hiking, caves, kayaking.

Kuching has little pollution, though about 2 years ago there was a month of smoke and haze coming over from Kalimantan and Sumatra. That happens about once a decade. No typhoons, earthquakes or tsunami risk. Some localized flood risk from brief heavy downpours. Malls, modern condos, 4G/5G internet, nice waterfront along rivers.

RedApe

Relax33~ Well the "latest developments" are so fluid it's difficult to give advice. It really depends on whether you can get into countries and go through whatever QT process they require. My own sense is to wait off until some of these countries or areas ease off on the QT procedures for those who are vaccinated (or fully vaccinated). Obvious you are over 50 so can qualify for any of these three programs via age.You don't mention if you have a spouse, children or other dependents.

No one knows what the rules are in the Peninsula MM2H...it's not only suspended but new regulations will be issued. You will have to refer to those when they issue them.

The Thai RV has about the same requirement financial requirements as Sarawak MM2H for over 50 singles (the FD option is about US$10,000 more) but has several withdrawal options for purchase of car, property, medical which brings it down to about the same) and has the flexibility of either allowing proof of monthly income or putting in a fixed deposit. Sarawak has a sponsor requirement (which can be done by an agent). That sponsor must be a Sarawakian. Agents charge about RM10K (about US$2500). The process must be done in Sarawak. In normal times one can do everything

ASFAIK the Thai RV Visa requires no sponsor/agent and can be done outside the country...but somehow requires a deposit in a Thai bank (not sure if that must be done "in country") 2 months before application. In Sarawak you must set up the account in Sarawak with a letter provided by the Ministry of Tourism coincidental to filing the application and submitting all the documents. In normal times (no Covid...with most gov't offices close) the process could be done within 1-2 months.

The major bureaucratic difference bw the Thai Visa and the Sarawak Visa is the monthly reporting requirement in Thailand and the fact that it must be renewed annually. In Sarawak, there is no reporting requirement and there is a 5 year visa initially given with a renewal at that time to 10 years if one has met the 15/day annual visit in Sarawak requirement. So once you have the visa there is far less hassle and Sarawak appears to grandfather in the provisions for those on the visa. So there is little liklihood of them upping the requirements on the applicant over time. Don't have to show tax returns but do have to show that you have a regular non-Malaysian source of monthly income...that can be pension, external work, and anything that is reliably stable. Need three months proof by bank statements.

relax33

Hi

Hope all is well n thanks for the elaborate reply
Saw several drone videos of Kuching, a pity they did not build the town center at the coast by the sea like what Kota Kinabalu (KK) did; but maybe that would be bad as it will be much more touristy by now if they had done so.
The river waters look brownish (wonder if its the sunlight or camera filter) which gives it a rustic jungle city feel .
Will prefer the sea more than humid tropical jungles filled with insects n mosquitoes but maybe the rainforest experience, the people n other things will make it a rewarding experience .

I am single without any dependents so that will make it easier for me to relocate.
I completed my covid vaccination (pfizer) in april n wrote to the Sarawak Tourism authorities to see if I could make use of the downtime to get a 3 - 6 month visa to explore Kuching (with retirement in mind) but they were unable to approach Malaysian Immigration on my behalf to facilitate a visit .
Did went to Kuching n Miri ages ago, just remembered that the food was quite good n it was slow moving

Got in touch with some of the listed agents handling S-MM2H.
Some of them had ceased operations while others looked to have very little knowledge of the programme n to be clearly lacking any governmental contacts that could keep them updated.

The temporary nature n absence of any track record with such setups makes me hesitant to leave any personal data with them; a likely path I will take will thus be to follow what you guys had done to seek a local landlord or resident to sponsor me into the program where applicable .

The Sept 2020 S-MM2H application guide says singles need to show income of 7K RM monthly or put in an FD of 100k RM. Was not able to locate the property buy ceiling of 300k RM for those above 50 though,
The requirements look reasonable, hopefully it will stay largely unchanged for the 2022 application

Do I need to have the bank statements notarised by an overseas authority or can I extract n print them out in the presence of the immigration officials will do

Having a small expat community n not having International bands coming over to perform regularly is fine .
Flooding after heavy rains might be an inconvenience though .
Hopefully, there will be some high ground areas that are immune to such occurrences

Is there a good public transport system in Kuching n is riding an electric bicycle or motorcycle dangerous ?
Or is it best to drive a car or take grab ..

Read that KK has more crime due to its proximity to the Philippines n is less clean, so is Kuching definitely the better place to stay when compared to KK due to these n other factors …

Thanks for the covid travel guidance .
Had previously done a 14 day stay home order. It does really require quite a bit of discipline to accomplish n I will want to avoid doing it again if possible .. ha

I guess it may boil down to whether its worth waiting for the peninsula MM2H to start up n spend 12-15 mths to get it to stay in penang or should I just head to Kuching or Thailand .

Looks like the peninsula MM2H might only be ratified after the elections when a permanent government is appointed n that might take 12 mths, add in the 12 - 15 mth processing time n the wait might be 24 - 28 mths.

People are saying penang is only suitable for use as a base to travel to other areas n that one will get bored if staying there there for more than a month, so if that’s the case, than it might not be wise to wait so long to stay there just to use it as a momentary base ..

Thailand will probably be among the earliest to open up without the need to quarantine for vaccinated visitors as its highly dependent on tourism n in dire need to revive this sector.
The Thai Visa requires 3 month reporting that can be done online but it needs to be renewed yearly though renewal only requires proof of 800k bht in the bank.

Wish I had your knowledge n feel of Kuching so that I can make a decision on it now but looks like I might need to spend some months there to get an insight before heading to Thailand .
Really envious of you for having the foresight to plan ahead n have a place that you can chill in right now ..

RedApe

Since these are very detailed personal things I have responded through a PM.

relax33

Thanks mate, take care n stay safe

Epicurious

Home minister to hold talks with Sabah, Sarawak to streamline MM2H policies; wants better ‘quality’ participants