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Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Old Oct 6th 2021, 1:55 pm
  #196  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

I would give the immigration officers a bit of a push back on charging you the RM450 for the remaining years. Tell them you contracted for RM90 and expect that to hold.

But the Home Office seems to itself not understand their own terminology. On points 15) and 16) of the August 10 notice

"15) The implementation of the new policy of the MM2H program will apply to all NEW applications and extension applications for existing participants who have an expiring pass."

Your pass is not expiring...it has another 3 years remaining. When a pass expires one needs a RENEWAL to get another FULL TERM. So here they are themselves misusing the long accepted terminology. One does NOT submit an extension application for an expiring pass. One submit a RENEWAL application. It would really help if the Home Affairs knew the difference ;-)

"16) Existing participants still interested in APPLYING FOR MM2H can apply for extension subject to the new conditions being complied with."

Another error. An existing participant wishing to transfer their visa have already been awarded THAT VISA for the full term. They are only applying for a TRANSFER.

And extension is something different...when your visa runs out of time and you'd like a few more weeks one applies for an "extension. For example a tourist who is in the hospital whose 90 Day visa is about to expire may apply for an EXTENSION to avoid overstay fines.

TRANSFER, EXTENSION, RENEWAL...all different things.
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Old Oct 7th 2021, 12:04 am
  #197  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
TRANSFER, EXTENSION, RENEWAL...all different things.
This confusion might be on purpose or they may find someone with good language skills and write official final version.
Such a headache for us and embarrassment for them.
Meanwhile, everything is rolling accordingly to the old rules so far.
An MM2H office in KK doesn't like new regulations as I hear from people who just recently received the transfers of visas to their new passports.

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Old Oct 7th 2021, 4:43 am
  #198  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by StillSearching View Post
Do you mean here "Muslim", not Malay?
A Malay is per definition a Muslim. Non-Muslims cannot be Malay. But certainly not all Muslims in the country are Malay.

Originally Posted by carbolic View Post
Raises so many questions...Just a few
Is the 90 day requirement immediately retrospective. (At renewal do you need to show 90 days every year for the last ten. Many people got the visa a year or two before coming to Malaysia for extended periods.)
Does the 90 days only apply to the visa holder and not the dependent spouse
Actually this is a very serious problem. Not for us Westeners, but for many Chinese. It is very common that the MM2H holder is still residing in China and working there, where wife and kids (and (grand)parents) live in Malaysia taking care of the school kids. Most of Westerners anyway have to follow their own 183 day rule for tax reasons.
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Old Oct 8th 2021, 2:45 am
  #199  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

https://www.theborneopost.com/2021/1...harsh-shareda/
“Sabah Housing and Real Estate Developers Association (Shareda) is in the opinion that the “relaxed conditions” are still harsh, and fear that the country is driving away a mass number of vital foreign investment during a recovery stage in the economy.

The requirement for 90 days stay should be a condition for a permanent resident (PR) visa, not for MM2H as it is merely a multiple entry social visit pass. This condition, coupled with the requirement to have active overseas income of RM40,000 is contradicting, as those with active income is unlikely to be able to be away for a quarter of a year, all for the sake of maintaining a social visit pass,”
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Old Oct 8th 2021, 7:12 am
  #200  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Mixed reactions to new conditions for MM2H programme
Paywalled, but the comments are interesting. An example (not by me):
I still don't think we have heard the 'real' reason behind this new scheme because none of the so-called 'fixes' such as higher monthly income, bigger fixed deposits, etc. do anything to alleviate criminal behavior, if there indeed is any. Aside from vague statements let's see some numbers and then a SENSIBLE way for dealing with them, because right now the new rules don't seem to address the problems that have been announced so far.

For example, if older applicants are not a problem but younger applicants are (I don't agree that this is true but stick with me) then the solution is to limit the program to older applicants only. Why raise financial requirements? You're doing something that has no effect on the problem.

So far the changes to the MM2H program are inexplicable despite how much has been said about it to date. But forget about the potential applicants for a moment, what Malaysia is really losing with these changes due to a complete lack of ability to explain them in any logical way, is trust. Trust in the Malaysian government to administer this program has evaporated. Trust that applicants will be treated fairly has disappeared. And as many have said in this comment section alone, Malaysia no longer seems like a welcoming place to go.

Andrew Henderson, the Nomad Capitalist, says it best "Go where you're treated best". Other countries in SE Asia actually seem to want long-term residents for programs such as the once popular MM2H. Maybe it's time to give them a look.
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Old Oct 8th 2021, 11:56 am
  #201  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by Epicurious View Post
Mixed reactions to new conditions for MM2H programme
Paywalled, but the comments are interesting. An example (not by me):
We will not hear their reason from them. Because despite all logical benefits of this program, there is only one dominant obstacle. This is a disgust towards the foreigners from some gov officials who are in power. Remember the use of "disgusting" from the Home Minister, I believe?

Are we in the position to bend over and take this insult as if we don't have any other place in the world to live? Don't we have pride?
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Old Oct 9th 2021, 6:06 am
  #202  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Discrepancies in government data"Home Ministry data revealed the MM2H programme managed to stimulate the country’s economy with a cumulative gross value-added income of RM11.89 billion from 2002 to 2019 through visa fees, property purchases, personal vehicle purchases, fixed deposits and monthly household expenditure.

But looking at the records of the Tourism, Arts and Culture Ministry, the MM2H programme brought RM21.1 billion revenue to the country from 2007 to 2019.

The MM2HCA projected that the least income that the MM2H programme brought into the country from 2002 to 2019 was RM38.165 billion, AND THIS AMOUNT HAS YET TO ACCOUNT TO COVER INCOME FROM MM2H PARTICIPANTS THROUGH EDUCATION AND TOURISM.

The Home Ministry reported that there are currently 57,478 active MM2H holders made up of 28,249 main applicants with 28,229 who are family dependents, while the number of Silver Hair Programme (for retirees) participants is 6,432. This data also contrasted with MM2H Centre records which saw only 827 Silver Hair Programme applications still present on March 6, 2019.

[This suggests that the number of those recorded as "on the program" by immigration is too high. They are only counting cumulative accepted applications and not including attrition through death and return to the home country....as indicated by the drop in the Silver Hair applicants who are still, apparently being counted as such (i.e. grandfathered in under the original terms of their visas). Addituonally underage dependents that reach age 18 are also generally no longer in the program. This suggests that there is no threat of a tsunami of foreigners at the gates].

The Home Ministry gave a written reply to the Parliament on September 14 that there is RM921 million fixed deposit placement as of 2019 by MM2H participants.Based on data from MM2HCA, this is only from 3,929 participants approved in 2019."

[So the HOME MINISTRY number accounts for only `14% of the total PRIMARY recipients who have placed a fixed deposit. So if we extrapolate the 2019 data to all MM2H holder we'd get a number closer to RM6.5 billion. in FD's alone. It there are 10,000 primary applicants that have made property purchases at RM1 million that is another RM10 bn.

MM2HCA estimates that there are still many successful MM2H applicants unable to travel to Malaysia due to the travel restriction imposed on major target markets such as Hubei and other provinces in China, as well as Japan, South Korea and several western countries in early February 2020.

MM2HCA projected the cumulative fixed deposit placement shall be RM9.18 billion from 2002 to 2019. The figures do not include withdrawals or partial withdrawals.

[Withdrawals would be partially directed at other purchases...it means that money is being directed into the direct economy of Malaysia. A million ringgit home purchase may have RM100,000 withdrawn from the FD.So it is actually a greater gain for the economy than if it remained in the FD "pot"].


https://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/?p=210859
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Old Oct 9th 2021, 6:17 am
  #203  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by StillSearching View Post
Remember the use of "disgusting" from the Home Minister, I believe?
I'd like to see a source for that. He has implied that current MM2H applicants are "Not Quality".

He's also stated that many MM2H recipients only have a RM1000-RM4000 income....even though the baseline monthly income fee for MM2H is RM10,000. Perhap he is confusing monthly expenditures with income? And RM1000/mo might be only from someone that stays for a month (i.e. RM12,000/12 months). So for the brief time that "tourist" is here they are expending RM12,000. They might actually HAVE that RM40,000/month INCOME.

Does Hamzah really want to go done the abyss of requiring those on visas to have a mandatory monthly expenditure? How would that be enforced?
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Old Oct 9th 2021, 7:30 am
  #204  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
I'd like to see a source for that. He has implied that current MM2H applicants are "Not Quality".
Sorry, I checked and I actually misread in a hurry.
He didn't use "disgusting", but yes, he used "not quality" for MM2H-ers.
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Old Oct 10th 2021, 5:05 am
  #205  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Roughly 200,000 pounds sterling in "the Kitty" and never seen again by you if you stay here for life (but those who inherit will bless you.)
Then 2,000 quid a week from off-shore (pension presumably) and about 300,000 if I remember correctly, in a local bank account.
That is why a lot of retirees are looking at Thailand and Sarawak.
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Old Oct 11th 2021, 10:26 am
  #206  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Sarawak requires no proof of foreign "liquid assets"...simply either a RM10K/mo. (for couples) or RM7K/mo. for a single, OR a Fixed Deposit or RM30K (for couples) or 150K (for singles). And you can withdraw about 40% of that over time for a car, health care costs, property or school tuition. It's mainly a retirement visa program for those over 50...but they do have corallary programs for 30- 50 who have kids enrolled in a Sarawak international school...or 40-50 without kids if they purchase a property. Only residency requirement is to spend 15 days a year in Sarawak,

I've heard that because of the extremity of the provisions of MM2H that the Sabah government is now considering a program modelled on Sarawaks. So this whole endeavor is backfiring in the face of the Home Minister. All the economic benefits of the program will shift from Penang and Johor to Sarawak and Sabah who will become "Little Bali's" or Chiang Rai or Chiang Mai. With more foreign residents more direct travel routes will open up. Suddenly the programs that got no attention..."I didn't even know they had a retirement program here"...will become the better known option. Sadly even if a future Federal government tries to rehabilitate MM2H this Home Minister has "soiled the nest". Usually the rule on such policies that one is unsure about is to apply them incrementally...or for a short trial period. Or to create an "alternative track" to see if that one works. But he went and did it all at once, backed away on some points but still applied it to the rest of the program. I bet in a year the only people applying for MM2H will be applying for the Sarawak or Sabah versions.
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Old Oct 12th 2021, 2:33 pm
  #207  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
... OR a Fixed Deposit or RM30K (for couples) or 150K (for singles).
Is this a typo? I thought that a couple has to place a fixed deposit of RM300k.

There is one thing about the Sarawak MM2H which is not fully clear to me. The website explains that you will receive a 5 years visa, which you can renew for another 5 years. What happens after year ten? The website talks in singular, in other words: the visa can be renewed once. Would Sarawak accept renewals after year 10, 15 and 20?
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Old Oct 13th 2021, 1:00 am
  #208  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
Is this a typo? I thought that a couple has to place a fixed deposit of RM300k.

There is one thing about the Sarawak MM2H which is not fully clear to me. The website explains that you will receive a 5 years visa, which you can renew for another 5 years. What happens after year ten? The website talks in singular, in other words: the visa can be renewed once. Would Sarawak accept renewals after year 10, 15 and 20?
Yes, you're right, evidently a typo.

After five years you apply for an extension, with less a onerous process than was necessary for your original application (new health check, proof of FD, proof of 15 days per year visits). At ten years you apply for renewal, and have to go through the same process as if you were making a new application.
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Old Oct 13th 2021, 5:27 am
  #209  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

If you have MM2H in Sabah, you can stay in Sarawak for only 3 months, right?
Since many may start applying in Sarawak, I wonder how long does it take now for an application to be approved.
Is there a quarantine for traveling to Sarawak from West MY or from Sabah?

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Old Oct 13th 2021, 8:05 am
  #210  
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Default Re: Peninsular MM2H reactivated from October, new conditions

Originally Posted by Epicurious View Post
After five years you apply for an extension, with less a onerous process than was necessary for your original application (new health check, proof of FD, proof of 15 days per year visits). At ten years you apply for renewal, and have to go through the same process as if you were making a new application.
Thank you for this clarification.
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