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-   Retirement and MM2H (https://britishexpats.com/forum/retirement-mm2h-205/)
-   -   MM2Hers stuck outside (https://britishexpats.com/forum/retirement-mm2h-205/mm2hers-stuck-outside-932385/)

ssoomro Apr 26th 2020 4:26 am

MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I read with some disappointment the news that MM2H holders are not allowed to return to their homes in Malaysia during the MCO, i was not aware of it until reading the news article: https://malaysiansmustknowthetruth.b...-say-mm2h.html

This seems arbitary and unfair, the idea of a HOME (which is part of Malaysia My 2nd HOME) is a place that you have particular affinity and some 'right" to, i hope Malay govt consider the plight of full time MM2Hers and allow them return back to the security of thier homes.

OriginalSunshine Apr 26th 2020 10:37 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
It’s because you are a foreigner. And foreigners spread disease. But returning Malaysians are ok, as long as they quarantine for two weeks.

there’s a huge rise of anti foreigners sentiment, especially towards migrant workers, despite the fact that those migrant workers currently infected in absolutely no way could have brought in the virus, given they have been in country since at least and almost certainly before the MCO started. - over 6 weeks ago.

ssoomro Apr 27th 2020 5:06 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Frankly I dont think Malays have the market cornered on xenophobia .. (Trump is the best and the greatest and sensible genius candidate for it ..;) ) I wonder how rest of the ASEAN countries (since they all have their versions of retirement schemes) are treating retirement pass holder? May be Davita can shed some light from Indonesia point of view .. Thailand /Philippines ?

I think MM2Her ban is most likely an oversight (a victim of legendary bureaucratic (in)competence ) .. MM2Hers are not taking jobs away or taxing the social services.. them being resented does not make logical sense (except of course the Chinese issue) ..

Nevertheless, i think its a cause for serious concern if you can be locked out of your primary residence in case of calamity natural or otherwise.. where are you supposed to go? I was not aware that there was a clause in the MM2H contract that disallowed you entrance in case of pandemic/tsunami/earthquake etc etc.. I AM a big fan of the MM2H program and find it one of the most generous and sensible one around.. but no matter how good it is .. if you locked out ..when you need to be home most .. is s serious cause for concern ..

OriginalSunshine Apr 27th 2020 6:32 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I didn’t say Malaysia was worst,I’m saying the sentiment here, right now, is bad.

also MM2H is second home. Clearly says so, and one is now seeing the real intent. It’s a ten year visa where you hold your second home, not your first.

and no, mm2h people are not special. You have not been forgotten - the ban is on all foreigners, and you are one. I have a ten year talent pass, so I have a salary far above the minimum wage or even national average (min requirement is RM 15k/month) and I pay taxes. If I left, I too would be locked out.

RedApe Apr 29th 2020 4:26 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by OriginalSunshine (Post 12844639)
.... despite the fact that those migrant workers currently infected in absolutely no way could have brought in the virus, given they have been in country since at least and almost certainly before the MCO started. - over 6 weeks ago.

Not "absolutely no way". There are ways of a group bringing in a virus from abroad and it being detected weeks and months later. For example, someone could have come in...say in early February and was asymptomatic. That person spreads the virus to others, who also show weak symptoms and they don't get medical attention because they don't want to lose their jobs. Then you have a few folks that get more seriously ill but stop going to work. Their contractor doesn't want to have his whole operation shut down so keeps quiet. Some may send the worker back to Bangladesh. So it percolates and incubates around. No reporting of illness in that community while the hospitals are dealing with citizens. Guest workers have too much to lose to report and even fatalities might be reported as something else.

But all or most of the current Covid-19 cases probably derive from individuals that came in prior to the MRO being instituted.They have just percolated around and back and forth in untested communities with poorer access to free or subsidized health care....or who were worried about losing their jobs.

RedApe Apr 29th 2020 11:06 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
One could view "Second Home" as meaning two different things. One is that you should not cut ties with your original country and keep your property, accounts, and other things back home. In that sense MM2H is sort of like a time share. The other sense would be that it is your Second Home in sequence. You originally lived in your First Home, and now that you are Retired or wealthy enough to live in the tropics that you can move there. It's your Second (and perhaps Final) Home.

In the first case the Government of Malaysia should have a BIG RED WARNING appended to the application that states that:

The Ten Year, Multi-Entry/Exit Visa offers no guarantee that the government may prevent your access to any property you purchase, or rental property that you may be leasing, might deny your access to bank accounts you place in Malaysia, or could terminate your childrens education. Moving your household goods may risk their abandonment, or your dependents and pets might be separated from you without any effort by the government to reunite you. Caveat Emptor.

I'll bet they'll get a lot of applications with that.

But in fact the MM2H has encouraged they idea that Malaysia could be a more permanent domicile. The program is constantly talked about in relation to property purchase. And to encourage this MM2H has a special status where recipients can purchase homes or condos at a lower ceiling than non-participants. There is no tax on household goods shipped into the country. One must have a 10-Year Fixed Deposit, and car only withdraw money from that IF one purchases property, or a car, or for tuition for children (oh and health care needs).

The are told that renewal is just a formality as long as one maintains that FD and has the necessary income.

Yes, the are not given Permanent Residency status, which would allow them to work...which MM2H doesn't. But an MM2H couple brings in as much revenue to Malaysia as 100 One-Week tourists...and they do it year in-year out for a decade without any need for massive promotions and special events. That's 1000 short-term Tourists over that stretch...and they recruit their friends and others. You'd think that the simple gesture of treating them live they do returning holiday making Malaysian tourists...with a quarantine and health checks...would be a reasonable one.

And most of those MM2H's are unlikely to be as risky as returning students. They are not nearly as likely to have attended some large scale event, lived in student dormitories with lots of students from all over the world, attended large lecture sections and student rallies, concerts, mixers, etc. They aren't asking for a special government subsidised flight back from Hunan or Jakarta, either. They are willing to follow the rules. No one wants to risk the lives of their family, friends or the Malaysian people.

https://www.expatgo.com/my/2020/04/1...7czy8LuohIqIuo

ssoomro Apr 30th 2020 2:48 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Hi RedApe.. I see the things the same way.. of course 'originalSunshine' disagrees. I think the word home, whether its retirement home/second home etc has certain connotation to it. Most importantly its the ideas/assurances and tacit understandings under which most (Myself included) entered this program. While three years later, I am still working and still plotting/planning my way to Malaysia... I never was under impression that MM2H is 'glorified tourist visa'...Of course some form of xenophobia (and not the scientific/logical thinking) is at the heart of the decision to keep MM2Hers out.. may be it has to do with majority of them being Chinese (if that is the case). Nevertheless, it unfortunately reflects poorly on Malaysia to leave stranded people who have done significant investments into being part of the society. Unfortunately, MM2Hersare not in no position to exert influence or be heard, the numbers are too small, they dont have a any lobby or representation in the circles of power... so that leaves them utterly disenfranchised. & its no surprise that a voiceless minority ... is unheard :(

bakedbean Apr 30th 2020 10:06 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Mm2h is and always has been a temporary visa, albeit a long term temporary visa. But temporary is temporary. It is not permanent, though many MM2Hers choose to make it their permanent home. I did for many years.
other countries have temporary visas and, as far as I'm aware, same is happening in those countries during this strange covid 19 time.

ex reg Apr 30th 2020 12:31 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by bakedbean (Post 12846206)
Mm2h is and always has been a temporary visa, albeit a long term temporary visa. But temporary is temporary. It is not permanent, though many MM2Hers choose to make it their permanent home. I did for many years.
other countries have temporary visas and, as far as I'm aware, same is happening in those countries during this strange covid 19 time.

Haven't seen you around for some time bb.

Hope things are good for you.

bakedbean Apr 30th 2020 8:23 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
All good exReg....thanks for asking. No longer in Penang. Left a couple years ago. Though I was back in Penang recently flogging my old property. Thankfully escaped by skin of teeth on lockdown day Malaysia and Australia.
the day I departed penang immigration, March 18th I think, immi officer asked when i planned to return. I thought it a strange question at the time but clearly they already knew that mm2hers would be barred for some time i guess.

OriginalSunshine Apr 30th 2020 11:30 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by bakedbean (Post 12846478)
All good exReg....thanks for asking. No longer in Penang. Left a couple years ago. Though I was back in Penang recently flogging my old property. Thankfully escaped by skin of teeth on lockdown day Malaysia and Australia.
the day I departed penang immigration, March 18th I think, immi officer asked when i planned to return. I thought it a strange question at the time but clearly they already knew that mm2hers would be barred for some time i guess.

yeah, we were told on Monday 16th that kids school would close Tuesday 17th. Lockdown announced on Tuesday for Wednesday 18th. It was planned.

SushiFan May 1st 2020 7:12 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by ssoomro (Post 12846143)
Hi RedApe.. I see the things the same way.. of course 'originalSunshine' disagrees. I think the word home, whether its retirement home/second home etc has certain connotation to it. Most importantly its the ideas/assurances and tacit understandings under which most (Myself included) entered this program. While three years later, I am still working and still plotting/planning my way to Malaysia... I never was under impression that MM2H is 'glorified tourist visa'...Of course some form of xenophobia (and not the scientific/logical thinking) is at the heart of the decision to keep MM2Hers out.. may be it has to do with majority of them being Chinese (if that is the case). Nevertheless, it unfortunately reflects poorly on Malaysia to leave stranded people who have done significant investments into being part of the society. Unfortunately, MM2Hersare not in no position to exert influence or be heard, the numbers are too small, they dont have a any lobby or representation in the circles of power... so that leaves them utterly disenfranchised. & its no surprise that a voiceless minority ... is unheard :(

You may want to check again what is actually written on the visa in your passport. The words "second home" do not appear there. Nor does the word "residence". The visa clearly states that it is a "social visit pass". Which indeed sounds much more like a 'glorified tourist visa', as you call it (it is even issued by the Ministry of Tourism). Malaysia's marketing, using the slogan "my second home" may have given you the incorrect impression (as is often the case with marketing and advertisement).

RedApe May 1st 2020 8:29 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by bakedbean (Post 12846206)
Mm2h is and always has been a temporary visa, albeit a long term temporary visa. But temporary is temporary. It is not permanent, though many MM2Hers choose to make it their permanent home. I did for many years.
other countries have temporary visas and, as far as I'm aware, same is happening in those countries during this strange covid 19 time.

Then they should have that large RED Caveat Emptor box. Just suggesting that if this is indeed their view that they be honest that they can boot you out like Idi Amin.


RedApe May 1st 2020 8:59 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by SushiFan (Post 12846615)
You may want to check again what is actually written on the visa in your passport. The words "second home" do not appear there. Nor does the word "residence". The visa clearly states that it is a "social visit pass". Which indeed sounds much more like a 'glorified tourist visa', as you call it (it is even issued by the Ministry of Tourism). Malaysia's marketing, using the slogan "my second home" may have given you the incorrect impression (as is often the case with marketing and advertisement).


Actually My Pass States "For The Purpose of Staying Under the MM2H Program Only." Since MM2H means "Malaysia My Second Home" it is explicitly on the Pass. It also states that I am "Permitted to Enter and Remain in Malaysia until...(expiration date)". It doesn't restrict that entry in any specified way. Given that MM2H should be allowed to return under the same terms as other log-term pass holders that often have shorter expiration periods.

Other Passes are much more specific that they are "Temporary" (Domestic Workers Temporary Employment Pass); Short Term Social Visit Pass; Long-Term Visit Pass; Diplomatic Pass; etc.

Even the Long Term Social Visit Pass for foreign spouses (and dependents of a Malaysian citizen) has only a five year term. The may eventually receive a Residence Pass, which also have a 5 year term. Yet these foreign spouses/dependents have been allowed to return, after they have undergone quarantine.

ssoomro May 2nd 2020 3:00 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Mine says the same.. while none of us can impact Malay Govt policy.. the discussion here begs a number of cliches .. "Are you glass half full/half empty" kindda person/You get in life what you deserve etc" .. to continue beating this dead horse.. lets me say .. "some of us" did not enter into this program ..expecting it to be a "social visit/enhanced tourist visa" .. matters of truth in advertisement aside... Tourists are not expected to setup FDs, sign long term leases, buy homes etc. We did.. with an understanding that the status is not that of a mere tourist. While fully cognizant of limitation of our franchise, Mine is 'sense of disappointment', (throwing in a couple more cliches :p) ...as they say the true character of things come out in the time of crisis.. the disappointment comes from finding out that "advertisements" were not true.. that we are "not special"...I for one .. dont dig not being special :banghead:

ssoomro May 2nd 2020 3:09 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
bakedbean The question is never that of impermanence of the MM2H Visa..but that of its potency... the advertisements/inducements and correspondingly ..relevantly stringent process of obtaining this visa .. gives impression of it having more teeth than it shows.. All of us know its temporary.. most of us thought it will be treated better than ..persona non grata .... in times of crisis/emergency .. something like that :frown:

OriginalSunshine May 2nd 2020 2:18 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by ssoomro (Post 12847088)
bakedbean The question is never that of impermanence of the MM2H Visa..but that of its potency... the advertisements/inducements and correspondingly ..relevantly stringent process of obtaining this visa .. gives impression of it having more teeth than it shows.. All of us know its temporary.. most of us thought it will be treated better than ..persona non grata .... in times of crisis/emergency .. something like that :frown:

Yes, whilst I’m more cynical than a lot of you, I do feel huge pity for those caught out, especially those separated from family 😢

meched55 May 3rd 2020 3:58 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I am planning on getting the MM2H. Selling everything and moving to Malaysia permanently. Had we been out of the country and they locked it down where would go? You buy a house there expecting to return home and you can’t get in?
this is absolutely a horrible policy. if your renting and can’t pay the rent does the landlord sell your belongings? Or do you just wire them the rent?
We plan on traveling all over Asia when the kid is not in school. We could be gone for a few months at a time.
seriously rethinking this move.
will this covid happen again probably just a different name. But we should all be doing more of this stuff anyway just to stop all viruses. I used to see CHinese wearing masks all the time before covid. Now
i know why.

ssoomro May 4th 2020 6:13 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by meched55 (Post 12847772)
I am planning on getting the MM2H. Selling everything and moving to Malaysia permanently. Had we been out of the country and they locked it down where would go? You buy a house there expecting to return home and you can’t get in?
this is absolutely a horrible policy. if your renting and can’t pay the rent does the landlord sell your belongings? Or do you just wire them the rent?
We plan on traveling all over Asia when the kid is not in school. We could be gone for a few months at a time.
seriously rethinking this move.
will this covid happen again probably just a different name. But we should all be doing more of this stuff anyway just to stop all viruses. I used to see CHinese wearing masks all the time before covid. Now
i know why.

Here is a clear example of what we are talking about.. I think this gentleman is no different from many of us, Like many of us, He may have stellar record of educational/professional/business achievements behind him. And i am sure he read the materials on MM2H quite carefully.. yet he was willing to uproot himself and family and move to Malaysia on the strength of MM2H visa.. I am sure a number of us did or plan to do so. A "Retirement Scheme" has a far different connotation than a casual visitor visa...You dont embark on these journeys as a cynic.. more like a starry-eyed optimist.. Unless Malay Govt does something about it .. i think post Covid-19, MM2H program is doomed... may be that is what some of the opponents of the program in Malay society want .. which is a shame.... but none of us can and should establish a claim on someone else' land .. well at least in Post Colonial World ..haha

meched55 May 4th 2020 9:24 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I agree to a point us MM2H'ers bring in a lot of capital to the country. They offered the program and had good benefits of coming there. Buying a car tax free is no longer. They still charge more for anyone who doesn't have a myKAd card. The main attraction for me is medical. My child goes to a charter school here. It's stem school one of the best in the city. It's free too. By the time I add rent and school and health insurance I am probably at about 2.5k$ a month there in Malaysia. That's about what it cost me here. But I have to work otherwise I have to pay about $2k a month for health insurance here for the family.
Over there I can get everything for about $2500 approximate depends what we want to have cable tv internet etc. Without living there it's hard to estimate?
I use numbeo for comparison costs. Which isn't bad for a guesstimate. I then wouldn't have to work either. I'd be just spending all the time. Tell me that's not good for their economy?
I already applied and was approved to get the visa. Just waiting to make a trip there. Haven't decided if I want to lock up $ in a FD or start a new Sarawak application?
Also I don't want to worry about money either so I am thinking maybe I wait 2 more years? 56 now will see we've been there before for 3 weeks. Will be headed there in July hopefully by then they will lift the 2 week quarantine if not we'll just cancel the trip again. Like someone else mentioned the 1 mm2her brings in more than 100 tourists we also don't have a voice too small of a minority.



WiredTight May 4th 2020 12:19 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I think you have to admit that the world is in a different place than it was 6 months ago. Locking down the world's borders probable hasn't been done like this since WW2 (???).
Their was a post on the Portugal forum of a person who has a legal home, residence, VISA ect..., and even though she/he had a legal right to enter the country, most people agreed that he/she might not make it through due to the lockdown of the borders.
MM2H isn't a residence VISA (perhaps it's been marketed this way in some cases). The way I've explained it to other people... "Special Tourist VISA, Multiple Entry, no 30 - 90 day entry/departure requirements, valid for 10 years, and a couple other perks (FD interest, bank account, etc...). Unfortunately what it sounds like you are looking for is some type of Golden Visa/Passport,,,ie...invest a couple million $$$ dollars and we'll give you a Malaysian Passport / VISA with all the perks of a regular citizen. Not MM2H.
When I sat down with my MM2H agent, I asked a dozen plus direct questions about what I was going to get. For instance..."If I bump into a person, or car wreck, and that person call his buddy in the immigration department to complain that I'm a Bad foreigner...what is stopping immigration from cancelling my visa ?". The reply (from the office manager) was basically... "not much you can do... but because of the Fixed-Deposit... it would take a lot of pull to cancel the visa just because someone was pissed off". Perhaps not the best reassurance. It's because of an example like this that I don't plan on purchasing property, or high dollar $$$ investment.
This doesn't even take into the account that a new government decides to cancel the program, confiscate your bank accounts, property, or devalue the Ringiit etc... Has anyone heard of someones MM2H being cancelled for something they did...legit or not ???When ever I go home to the Motherland for a visit... I always feel a bit of relief because I'm now a Citizen with rights...not just a tourist.
Maybe it's best if you hold off on MM2H until the world becomes more stable. Perhaps in the coming months, MM2H will change for the better to entice more people to apply...ie...bring in more money to the MY economy ???

meched55 May 4th 2020 1:16 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Nope not looking for a golden whatever. Just like you I won’t buy property just rent. And maybe just go for the Sarawak mm2h. Why tie up
money at such a low rate? Better off in mutual funds for the next 10
years. A good avg mutual fund on avg earns about 10% per year.
Like you say they decide to cancel your visa and keep your FD what can you do? Not much move out and find another place to go.

WiredTight May 4th 2020 1:51 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Confiscating your bank account, property, kick out the foreigners, etc, etc etc...would be the absolute worse case. I'd think if the government was to start doing something like that... Their would be other actions that would tip me off that it's time to go... Like a world pandemic, closing all borders, War in the South China Sea, or world economic meltdown.....Ok maybe I'm hitting a little to close to reality.

meched55 May 5th 2020 9:29 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
At the speed of their gov’t you could leave quickly. But I hear it takes quite a while to get your fixed deposit back along with cancelling your visa.

China built an island their in the sea complete with air strips and Hidden interior docks for their ships.
its only reason is military.


Anyhow it’s not a decision to take lightly.
Will see if they lift the quarantine by July.
if not won’t be going there this year.


OriginalSunshine May 6th 2020 7:34 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by WiredTight (Post 12848134)
Confiscating your bank account, property, kick out the foreigners, etc, etc etc...would be the absolute worse case. I'd think if the government was to start doing something like that... Their would be other actions that would tip me off that it's time to go... Like a world pandemic, closing all borders, War in the South China Sea, or world economic meltdown.....Ok maybe I'm hitting a little to close to reality.

in 2017 we might have come close to a South China Sea war. How do I know? I was sitting on the plane on the runway for 6 hours as KL airport shut down. Pilot came on and announced military manoeuvres were happening SCS. We then flew from KL, and over Aceh through Indonesian airspace, and then over to Sarawak, Brunei then to Sabah. 2.5hr flight took almost 12 hours,and flight radar showed no planes over SCS for that period......

Also be aware that the scenario of a pissed off local getting your visa cancelled is real. I was a manager giving a staff a poor performance review and they went to the police to complain I was bullying them and asking for my employment visa revocation. Luckily I had the WhatsApp’s from them showing them thanking me for inviting them to dinner a year beforehand, and all sorts of friendly chat, an so shut down the complaint. But the person would have ruined our family by getting me and the kids and my spouse kicked out, just out of spite. No repercussions on them, of course, for false allegations.

ssoomro May 6th 2020 8:05 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by OriginalSunshine (Post 12849025)
in 2017 we might have come close to a South China Sea war. How do I know? I was sitting on the plane on the runway for 6 hours as KL airport shut down. Pilot came on and announced military manoeuvres were happening SCS. We then flew from KL, and over Aceh through Indonesian airspace, and then over to Sarawak, Brunei then to Sabah. 2.5hr flight took almost 12 hours,and flight radar showed no planes over SCS for that period......

Also be aware that the scenario of a pissed off local getting your visa cancelled is real. I was a manager giving a staff a poor performance review and they went to the police to complain I was bullying them and asking for my employment visa revocation. Luckily I had the WhatsApp’s from them showing them thanking me for inviting them to dinner a year beforehand, and all sorts of friendly chat, an so shut down the complaint. But the person would have ruined our family by getting me and the kids and my spouse kicked out, just out of spite. No repercussions on them, of course, for false allegations.

We are but product of our own life experiences and proclivities... I can understand your lack of trust in the Malays system.. I on the other hand have been blessed with some super positive experiences with total strangers in strange lands landing a helping hands . sometime at some risk to themselves.. thus i am unable to see the world in any other way but as an optimist about human nature.. but i am never too rosy glassed to forget about the unpleasant, vindictive, nasty side of human nature not to mention lynch mob phenom that causes prefectly normal ppl to act totally outrageously

While on the topic.. i am HUGE fan a of a polish fim director Angnieszka Holland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnieszka_Holland) .. her movies have always been about how human nature is composite bad and good ..perfectly capable of doing heroic deeds on one side .. and utter cruelty on other.. like any great art . her movies give us some insight into human nature ... if interested ..check out : Angry Harvest or Europa Europa ... ::thumbsup:

IanBlakeley May 10th 2020 11:35 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by ssoomro (Post 12847974)
i think post Covid-19, MM2H program is doomed... may be that is what some of the opponents of the program in Malay society want .. which is a shame.

Can't disagree, if I had been considering MM2H it would be crossed off now as a non starter


Originally Posted by RedApe (Post 12846649)
Even the Long Term Social Visit Pass for foreign spouses (and dependents of a Malaysian citizen) has only a five year term. The may eventually receive a Residence Pass, which also have a 5 year term. Yet these foreign spouses/dependents have been allowed to return, after they have undergone quarantine.

Don't think anyone has for 5 years for a long time now, 2 years last time for me, my SiL with 3 dependent children 3 years application for PR application made a year ago, no idea how long if ever that will take for her.

OriginalSunshine May 11th 2020 12:41 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I have a Residence Pass, that is different to a PR. Yes it’s for five + five years, but as per MM2H folks, if I or my dependents leave, we are not allowed back..

OriginalSunshine May 11th 2020 12:44 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by meched55 (Post 12848556)
At the speed of their gov’t you could leave quickly. But I hear it takes quite a while to get your fixed deposit back along with cancelling your visa.

China built an island their in the sea complete with air strips and Hidden interior docks for their ships.
its only reason is military.


Anyhow it’s not a decision to take lightly.
Will see if they lift the quarantine by July.
if not won’t be going there this year.

now until June 09th to cover all the big balik kampung holidays. Might go to July though if the numbers don’t drop.

ssoomro May 14th 2020 3:09 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Elsewhere .. on the Sarawak MM2H facebook page.. I read the following: From Andy Davison (of The Expat magazine and his associated agency) regarding MM2H'ers currently locked out.

"URGENT I have received information from my government contact that they will let MM2H visa holders into the country in limited numbers. However, they need all their names as soon as possible. I have no more details at this point. If you have an MM2H visa (only MM2hers at this time) and are locked out, please email me your name; nationality to [email protected] or my Whatsapp at 60 123059492, as soon as possible (note - I need contact details - email or phone). I will forward them to the relevant person. "

May be helpful to someone here..


Thairetired2016 May 14th 2020 8:03 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
I've just read this thread. Seems Malaysia is no friendlier than Thailand. Folks with retirement visa are locked out despite Thai family back in Thailand. Ppl who hold Thailand Elite visa for which they paid min. 20.000$ for the basic version cannot return.
May be it is time to have a bolthole in our home country?


ssoomro May 15th 2020 2:42 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Sound advise (keep a foothold back home)... however i find it interesting .. for some reason.. I have a feeling that many of the expats who have made south east asia their retirement destination are often the kind of people that are very cost conscious and/or on a limited retirement budget. SEA is often chosen as destination with low cost of living yet good quality of life etc .. these are not the kind of people who are in position to maintain two residences. May be i am wrong and its too much of a generalization. and we are expecting too much from an alien country/culture to shelter us, when their primary aim seems to be attracting dollars and pounds ..not 'cultural exchange'..hahaha

meched55 May 15th 2020 12:22 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
They love when we spend our money in their country. But they act like they are doing something keeping people out of their country to protect their citizens.
I applied for the MM2h visa may never fulfill that one. Canceled one trip and rescheduled it again. Doesn't look like we will make it to that one either. Moved to June 21st to Malaysia. Oh well maybe next year? Wasted 2k$ on a visa application for nothing probably?
I for one will not have a residence in the USA to go back to. That's the whole idea of mm2h I can't afford to have 2 residences and who would want to? Are you going to go back and keep checking in on it? Keep it for a rental who's going to watch out for the renter who changes their Harley oil on your living room carpet? No thanks on keeping a house 8000+ miles away.

Thairetired2016 May 15th 2020 2:39 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by meched55 (Post 12853367)
They love when we spend our money in their country. But they act like they are doing something keeping people out of their country to protect their citizens.
I applied for the MM2h visa may never fulfill that one. Canceled one trip and rescheduled it again. Doesn't look like we will make it to that one either. Moved to June 21st to Malaysia. Oh well maybe next year? Wasted 2k$ on a visa application for nothing probably?
I for one will not have a residence in the USA to go back to. That's the whole idea of mm2h I can't afford to have 2 residences and who would want to? Are you going to go back and keep checking in on it? Keep it for a rental who's going to watch out for the renter who changes their Harley oil on your living room carpet? No thanks on keeping a house 8000+ miles away.

I agree with you about spending the money bit.
Yes, a foothold back home has a price. For many years we kept a small apartment in Europe while my husband worked overseas and I lived in Thailand. We never rented it out as maintaining it was affordable.
In the meantime we sold this foothold, spent part time in Thailand, parttime in Austria. A nomadic lifestyle. C-19 measures adopted by Austria nearly left us homeless as all non-registered visitors had to leave within 3 days. We could just avoid this scenario but it was an eye opener. Thailand was still open for travellers yet my husband had a leg op a week prior to Austria closing down, and we couldn't fly back. Then Thailand closed. Now we are still in Austria. No idea when we can return to Thailand. We now consider making Austria more permanent and Thailand an escape from European winter.


hnd May 16th 2020 9:18 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Apparently MM2H visa holders may now return to Malaysia

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2...enter-malaysia

SushiFan May 16th 2020 9:56 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by hnd (Post 12853831)
Apparently MM2H visa holders may now return to Malaysia

https://www.nst.com.my/news/nation/2...enter-malaysia

The article in today's Star newspaper gives a different set of requirements though: https://www.thestar.com.my/news/nati...ied-virus-free
You need to get a certificate before boarding the plane to Malaysia. And even then you have to go in 14 days quarantine before being allowed to return to the place where you live in Malaysia.

tdrinker May 16th 2020 10:35 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
Many (most?) countries won't let you enter unless you're a citizen or hold a residence visa. Even holders of long-term visas such as MM2H, work visas, etc. aren't welcome.

This suggests keeping a home country bolthole. But as has been mentioned, it's costly and leaving a home property empty for extended periods whilst living overseas isn't ideal (security, maintenance, peace of mind, etc.). Renting it out or using house sitters can mitigate this, but its usefulness as a bolthole is compromised if it's unavailable for your use whenever you need it.

Further, hotels, airbnb, etc. aren't taking bookings in some (many?) countries during lockdown, so digital nomads and similar, moving around and using shortish term visas and accommodation bookings, have additional challenges.

Although not a digital nomad, I find myself in this situation, i.e. short-term visa (whilst waiting for MM2H) and airbnb accommodation, and without any home country accommodation. It's left me feeling exposed, and is a wake-up call.

I thought the "home" bit of MM2H (if / when I get it) would allow me to live in Malaysia or use it as a base to travel from, but clearly not unconditionally. I intend to look for a home country accommodation, somewhere I can go to whenever and for whatever period I want to, and possibly use it as a base. But I wonder if I'll gain the bolthole peace of mind and instead have the hassle and worry of a property that's unoccupied for long periods.

Unless I live permanently in my home country, or can get a residence visa or citizenship in another country (unlikely), there are exposures in any option.




OriginalSunshine May 16th 2020 12:24 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by ssoomro (Post 12852734)
Elsewhere .. on the Sarawak MM2H facebook page.. I read the following: From Andy Davison (of The Expat magazine and his associated agency) regarding MM2H'ers currently locked out.

"URGENT I have received information from my government contact that they will let MM2H visa holders into the country in limited numbers. However, they need all their names as soon as possible. I have no more details at this point. If you have an MM2H visa (only MM2hers at this time) and are locked out, please email me your name; nationality to [email protected] or my Whatsapp at 60 123059492, as soon as possible (note - I need contact details - email or phone). I will forward them to the relevant person. "

May be helpful to someone here..

very helpful thank you! I passed to my friend who had her son stuck

RobSg May 16th 2020 4:08 pm

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 

Originally Posted by tdrinker (Post 12853846)
Many (most?) countries won't let you enter unless you're a citizen or hold a residence visa. Even holders of long-term visas such as MM2H, work visas, etc. aren't welcome.

This suggests keeping a home country bolthole. But as has been mentioned, it's costly and leaving a home property empty for extended periods whilst living overseas isn't ideal (security, maintenance, peace of mind, etc.). Renting it out or using house sitters can mitigate this, but its usefulness as a bolthole is compromised if it's unavailable for your use whenever you need it.

Further, hotels, airbnb, etc. aren't taking bookings in some (many?) countries during lockdown, so digital nomads and similar, moving around and using shortish term visas and accommodation bookings, have additional challenges.

Although not a digital nomad, I find myself in this situation, i.e. short-term visa (whilst waiting for MM2H) and airbnb accommodation, and without any home country accommodation. It's left me feeling exposed, and is a wake-up call.

I thought the "home" bit of MM2H (if / when I get it) would allow me to live in Malaysia or use it as a base to travel from, but clearly not unconditionally. I intend to look for a home country accommodation, somewhere I can go to whenever and for whatever period I want to, and possibly use it as a base. But I wonder if I'll gain the bolthole peace of mind and instead have the hassle and worry of a property that's unoccupied for long periods.

Unless I live permanently in my home country, or can get a residence visa or citizenship in another country (unlikely), there are exposures in any option.

As one who occasionally looks at this forum from Washington state, I'm surprised that some of you are surprised that you are stuck outside. I was part of the MM2H for a short time, and relinquished it to retire in the Pacific Northwest.

It's the same in the US and Canada. I live right on the border, and Canada is a mile from me across the bay. Half my neighborhood are Canadians who have vacation homes here or are dual citizens. If they happened to be in Canada when the border closed 2 months ago, they were stuck there also. A dual citizen can cross with some difficulty but must commit to a 2 week quarantine.

ssoomro May 17th 2020 6:16 am

Re: MM2Hers stuck outside
 
The news article below, does not mention the requirement for pre-testing. As always if you get on a plane..you are on your way :P .... as for the testing in KL and quarantine is concerned, that is going to happen.. even if you are a citizen. this is a welcome development to some degree, showing that MoT has realized the jeopardy to MM2H program (or may be some sympathy with the stranded folks)..The cost of 2 weeks quarantine should be less that being stuck somewhere in Europe (unless its your own pad) for 2 Weeks.

All the best to the returnees, kindly share your experience here, if you can. ...

https://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/ca...cG6OPtMR2JD25k


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