MM2H - How to apply

Old May 23rd 2015, 4:03 pm
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

The final thing that you may need to organise before making the trip to Putrajaya is medical insurance. My provisional letter stated that medical insurance was required, without comment. The accompanying notes implied that insurance is required below age 60 and optional from 60 onwards. Clarification from MM2H office is that you do not require medical insurance for yourself or any dependants who are 60+. But assuming you have followed my notes on getting banking etc. in Georgetown and you need insurance the easiest thing is to return to the bus station at Weld Quay and hop onto the number 101 bus. As the bus travels along Jalan Burma lookout for a plaza on the right hand side and get off at the next stop. A little way further on the right hand side of the road is a Kurnia office on the corner of Jalan Burma and Jalan Arraton. If you carry on down Jalan Arraton to Jalan Sultan Ahmed Shah and turn left you will find the Allianz office although this is not clearly marked so you want to take the address with you.

Kurnia offer cheap rates and is favoured by a number of expats but for reasons I will explain in a later post I would recommend Allianz. In either case you can just go to the office, complete their forms and within a day or two get an offer back.
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Old May 23rd 2015, 4:06 pm
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

The last step to MM2H is the visit to MoTAC in Putrajaya. Getting there is easy. If you are driving use your Satnav and it is a short hop off of the highway. We decided to take advantage of the trip to KL to take a look around the city so stayed in a central hotel. Wherever you stay in KL will not be far from one of the light railway stations. You need to travel to Putrajaya/Cyberjaya Sentral. Using the rail system is straight forward, you can buy a token at your starting station and leave the token as you leave your destination but I recommend getting a Touch'nGo card. The easiest way to do this is to get a Watsons' card from any Watsons store and load it up with at least 20 RM. Now you just need to use the card the same as you would an Oyster card in London.
At Putrajaya/Cyberjaya station head for the taxi rank. You will need to queue at the ticket booth and pay 2 RM to get a taxi but the fare was only around 17 RM.
Once you get to MoTAC sign the register and go to the 10th floor. Just to the left is a ticket machine where you will need to get a ticket for your turn. NOTE each number is printed on two tickets and you will need both tickets. The first ticket is needed when you are called to hand over all the required documents. You will then be told to take a seat and wait. After a short while your number will be called again and you will be directed to the cashier's desk to pay for the security Bond and the visa. This is when you need the second ticket. After another short wait your passports will be returned to you. All together this took just over one hour.
Getting back to KL is a bit more tricky but there are basically three options. Just around the corner from MoTAC is a bus stop. There are a number of buses stopping there but bus S02 will take you back to Putrajaya/Cyberjaya Sentral. Close to the bus stop I noticed a couple of taxis that may be a second option if they were not already waiting for someone. The third option that I intended to use was the MY Teksi app but as we were standing outside going through the menu a very kind gentleman who we had been chatting to drove by and offered us a lift back to KL.
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Old May 23rd 2015, 4:11 pm
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Medical insurance is available from a large range of companies and each will have a range of products. Anyone requiring medical insurance is advised to do their own research and make sure that what they end up with matches their needs. However there are some points that are common to most of the companies.
Firstly, most products are not renewable after attaining 70 years of age. Kurnia offer a seniors policy that is renewable to age 80 but as this carries a higher risk of payout the premiums are higher throughout the term of the policy. One company offers renewal to age 100 but the premiums on this policy even at age 60 are substantially higher than any other product. Another common feature is that the product will be offered with a range of tiers. Each successive tier offers a larger daily sum for paying for a higher grade of room along with a higher per diem payment. Unless you are earning and rely on being able to work, the per diem is unlikely to matter much but you need to consider carefully what grade of room you require and pick the appropriate tier. Beware thinking that you can take the basic tier and then pay for an upgrade in the event that you do need to be hospitalised. All of the products that I looked at had a clause that if you upgrade the room to a rate above what your insurance covers you will be required to pay a hefty percentage of all the medical costs. This could prove a very expensive upgrade if you are in for major surgery.

When I was trying to get insurance with Kurnia the staff tried to tell me that all of the tiers would only get a bed in a large ward except for the highest tier which would get a private room. Maybe others who have been in hospital can give some insight into this but I thought it highly unlikely and somewhat deceitful.

The next problem you will face is your medical history if you have any. This is the insurer's opportunity to reduce their risk by adding in exclusion clauses and is the issue that caused me most grief. As a young child I had some fairly major surgery on my heart. This required about 7 years of follow ups until the surgeon was satisfied that I was completely cured. I should probably add that in my work I was required to have annual medicals and was deemed A1 fit and required to wear SCBA for rescue operations in an emergency so I am pretty sure their is not much wrong with my heart. But filling in Kurnia's somewhat basic form which provided little opportunity to describe my current status provided them with the opportunity to offer insurance excluding illness due to heart attack, heart disease or stroke. It didn't seem to leave much so I rejected the offer. Allianz had a much more detailed and professional form with room to expand on any treatment. Even so before they would quote they required that I have a full medical at my expense including an ECG and full blood analysis. Needless to say I aced the tests as I have done throughout my employment medicals and I got a quote without the exclusions that Kurnia wanted to impose.

Whether you choose to have medical insurance or not (assuming you are 60+) is a personal choice that you must make but here is my take on medical insurance. It is a fact that the older you are the greater the age you can expect to attain. This is because the unfortunate people who die young have been removed from the equation so the average life expectancy increases. Unless you have a family history of a medical condition (which you be required to declare on your application) you are unlikely to require medical treatment before you are 70. Actuarially you are likely to live to your mid 80s before requiring serious medical treatment. You only have to look at the office buildings that insurance companies occupy to realise that the deck is stacked heavily in favour of the insurers. So it is likely that I will need treatment at some stage but that is most likely to be after I am 70 so I will have to pay for it. In which case it would be sensible to put aside the premiums that would be paid to insurers into a separate account to help fund treatment when insurance is not available. But please, these are my personal views others will see the insurance as worthwhile so make your own mind up.
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Old May 23rd 2015, 4:34 pm
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Very well articulated NeonHippy
Co-incidently, I just received a survey request from Cigna, whom I did insure last year and rejected this year, and this was my response to their survey...

1. You are too expensive.
2. I'm 78 and have just had a medical exam from Siloam Hospital and, except for hypertension, which has been prescribed for nearly 10 years, and under control, have no other medical conditions at risk.
I understand your premiums are based on 'risk' but I have figured out that it is to your advantage so I'll take the risk myself.
Thank you for not responding unless it has some benefit to me.
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Old May 24th 2015, 3:30 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Originally Posted by NeonHippy View Post
Medical insurance...there are some points that are common to most of the companies....these are my personal views others will see the insurance as worthwhile so make your own mind up.

GOOD POST!
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Old May 24th 2015, 9:20 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Originally Posted by NeonHippy View Post
When I was trying to get insurance with Kurnia the staff tried to tell me that all of the tiers would only get a bed in a large ward except for the highest tier which would get a private room. Maybe others who have been in hospital can give some insight into this but I thought it highly unlikely and somewhat deceitful.
Depends what you call a large ward I suppose. As I recall (and I may be wrong*) at Adventist Hospital in Penang the larger ward is a 4 bedded room. So possibly 3 other inmates in there. Is it a big deal? Depends on your preference I guess. It means a shared bathroom between the 4 beds, but usually a TV each.

*Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.
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Old May 24th 2015, 9:42 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

I agree a four bed ward is not a big deal. As it happens I intend to drop our insurance after the first year anyway but it would help those who wish to have insurance if those in the know can provide some guidelines on what each tier will get you.
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Old May 24th 2015, 10:01 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Originally Posted by NeonHippy View Post
I agree a four bed ward is not a big deal. As it happens I intend to drop our insurance after the first year anyway but it would help those who wish to have insurance if those in the know can provide some guidelines on what each tier will get you.
It varies from company to company, but Malaysian companies usually put all this info on their websites, so it's just a case of trawling through and doing your sums.

We only have cheapy (low tier) insurance policies. It works for us. For any hospital stays, make sure you have your credit card in your pocket. You pay an amount to the hospital on Admission. They will decide how much. At the end of the hospital stay, get a full bill. Then can claim back whatever amounts from the insurance company. If you've overpaid on credit card, the hospital will credit that back to the card.
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Old May 25th 2015, 4:15 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

The comments in this thread where very helpful to get the MM2H visa without using an agent. Particulatly those of NeonHippy. Thanks for that.

Hotel Istana
However, if one needs to get all the paperwork done in KL and is not very familiar with this City I suggest to stay at the Hotel Istana which is centrally and conveniently located between Bukit Bintang and KLCC.

Medical Report
Exit the Istana to the left. In the very first building there is a medical clinic located in the 5. floor. No appointments needed. Overall time spent to get the medical report was 1 hour. Sets one back RM 50.

Health Insurance
Was no Problem for me as I already had an international healt insurance policy from Allianz.

FD Account
Exit the Istana to the right and follow the road for app. 300-400m. You'll hit HSBC Bukit Bintang branch which has premier facilities. Very convenient. If you prefer Maybank or Standard Chartered, they have branches just across the street from HSBC Bukit Bintang.

Security Bond / MM2H Visa
Accoross the street from the Istana is th emonorail station. The monorail brings you straight to KL Sentral from where you can catch a train to Cyberjaya / Putrajaya. Personally I was however a bit short in time because I wanted to safe one day for Sightseeing. So I took a taxi from the Istana first to get the security bond, then to get the MM2H visa. The taxi was waiting for me at both locations. Just over 2 hours later I was back to the Istana. All set. The setback was RM 200 plus RM 20 tips. Done!

Address to get the Security Bond
Inland Revenue Board of Malaysia is located at:-
Wisma Hasil, Persiaran Rimba Permai, Cyber 8, 63000 Cyberjaya, Selangor.
It can be reach via phone (+603-8313 8888).

Address to get the MM2H Visa
Malaysia My Second Home
Ministry of Tourism and Culture
Level 1, No. 2, Tower 1, Jalan P5/6, Presint 5, 62200 W.P. Putrajaya, MALAYSIA
If I recall correctly the actual Office to get the visa was on the 10 floor!

+603 8891 7424/27/34/39
+603 8891 7415
[email protected]

Taxi Driver
Mr. Raj (Cell: 0166738425) is a very friendly, helpful and knowledgable taxi driver. On request he also picks one up at the airports.

Maylasian SIM
It is strongly advisable to purchase a Malaysian SIM in order to make things easier and Keep costs low. These can be purchased at all KL Airports.
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Old Sep 29th 2015, 11:17 pm
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Thanks everyone - the posts here have been very informative.

For those of you who have gone through the process, or are in the middle of it, would you recommend going through an agent? I am, let's say frugal, (sounds so much better than cheap) and don't particularly want to pay someone if it isn't value added.

Also, I read that if you are over 50 you can avoid the fixed deposit if you can prove a government pension of MYR 10,000 a month, and it looks like my US Social Security would be accepted as a government pension. But what if the exchange rates changes, and my USD pension is now worth only MYR 9,500 a month? Is that a problem?
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Old Sep 30th 2015, 4:09 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

JauntyJet, there are a few posts answer g your question on page two of this thread. I share your frugality and resist paying someone to do something I can do myself.

I found that the hardest part was gathering together all the evidence and filling in the application, these are not something the agent can help you with but they will check application before you submit it. In theory you need to be present in Putrajaya when you get your MM2H visa but I noticed an agent from Alter Domus while we were there and he was collecting a long list of visas. It is possible they were all renewals, I couldn't see.

Your second question is a good indicator that perhaps you would benefit from using an agent if your case is borderline they will be far more adept at stating your case than you would be. A quick confidence test though would be to fill in the initial contact form with Joystay and see if they would be willing to represent you.
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Old Sep 30th 2015, 4:54 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Hi, JauntyJet. Just to clear up a couple of things:-

1. We used Alter Domus and everything was done by them, we never went to Putrajaya.

2. Alter Domus know exactly what Putrajaya expect, sometimes this means certain things have to be presented differently or, sometimes not at all. This is particularly relevant when proving financial strength of RM350K.

3. For the FD of RM150K you can ask exemption if you have a government pension, such as US Social Security, worth RM10K per month, at the time of application. If you put up the FD, you can withdraw RM50K 12 months later (this is new).

Hope this helps.
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Old Sep 30th 2015, 9:18 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Originally Posted by JauntyJet View Post
For those of you who have gone through the process, or are in the middle of it, would you recommend going through an agent? I am, let's say frugal, (sounds so much better than cheap) and don't particularly want to pay someone if it isn't value added.
Hi JJ,Snap! We didn’t use an MM2H agent, and found the application process straightforward. There’s plenty of knowledge on this forum if you get stuck with something. To use an agent or not? I think it depends. If you readily meet the criteria, I can’t see that there’s much value added by an agent. If borderline, then use an agent. If you can visit the MM2H office in person to file your MM2H application, the MM2H counter staff there are very helpful, are on your side, will review your application with you sitting in front of them, and will help you with anything you’ve got wrong or don’t understand. You can also phone them with any questions - I found early morning was best. What they don’t seem to be so good at is answering emails. There’s a hotel right across the street from the MM2H office – the Pullman Putrajaya Lakeside. It might be an idea to stay there one night, and use the hotel facilities if needs be to sort out any niggles, photocopying or whatever. I also bought an MM2h car tax-free without using an agent (actually it’s not really tax-free, rather more of an interest free loan, some of which you’ll have to pay back one day when you sell it). But I found that wasn’t quite so straightforward. In retrospect I think it might have been better to buy a second-hand car instead. Probably less hassle in the long run.Good luck!JC3

Last edited by JC3; Sep 30th 2015 at 9:20 am.
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Old Oct 2nd 2015, 10:35 am
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

There is a lot of very good info already in this thread so i will try not to repeat anything, just add some extras & personal experiences.

My FD (for MM2H) is in RHB because i used to be paid into that account when working here. their FD rate is good, but I also have HSBC offshore, local RM and local UKP accounts and am currently moving all the FD to HSBC. I love the global transaction abilty that allows me to move between Jersey, Malaysia and between the UKP and RM savings/FD account. Premier limit here is RM200k whereas Jersey is UKP60k so best to have your premier allocation held here as cheaper, and, as stated earlier, if Premiere here then Premiere in Jersey as well. I personally trust HSBC more than RHB and they are far more efficient. Moving the MM2H to another bank requires getting a permission to withdraw from MM2H before the bank will release so best done by depositing the required amount in the "new" bank then showing that FD to MM2H before taking the other FD out.
I am lucky as I have had my MM2H for about 15 years so only need the lower amount, plus live 30 mins from PutraJaya so easy, but this could be an issue if you are further away.

I did my MM2H when it just started as "silver-hair scheme"... it took ages and there were no agents at the time as even the immigration officers didnt know how it worked. HQ kept changing FD limits and other criteria, but i was already a familiar face at the PKNS building due to previous work permits and multiple entry social passes plus a PR application (which is still to be processed since 2001) so got it through eventually.
Now it is very much simpler, has its own lovely comfortable office at PutraJaya, plus plenty of agents to do it for you if required.
Renewal in 10 years time is easy as well. The income aspect is the only tricky part.
All of it is a LOT easier than applying for a nonEU spouse visa from the UK gov.
(I know some of you will ask why I have MM2H instead of a spouse permit ... i got my MM2H before i got married)
I wouldnt bother with an agent as know the system, but if new to Malaysia or dont fancy doing a lot of hoping around then worth the agents cost.

There was no car IMPORT DUTY exemption when i did mine but I would concur that, as the exempt car cannot be sold without the next owner paying the duty, its hardly worth doing. It only applies to certain imports and these days used car prices are more competetive and retain their value better than new one. Buy a good used car so you wont mind so much if someone bumps it in a car park (they will!). I would recomend a BMW as parts are cheaper than other european makes... or Toyota as service centres everywhere and reliable.
Join AAM as breakdowns can be expensive if not... they also do your tax and insurance for you.

Regarding Health care... insurance varies a lot.. the company I am with is now not the best, but I can't move as just turned 60.
I had insurance paid for by my company when working, then bought my own when i semi retired.
Malaysian private hospitals are good and the surgeons are usually UK or Australia trained. Some hospitals are better than others but the key is find the best surgeon first.
I have used their services a few times over the past 20 years, accidents, back injuries and recently major surgery on my foot and soon to have a hip replacement. (PM me if you need recomendations :-) )
I have absolutely no complaints about any of the doctors nor nursing nor facilities... maybe a few admissions and discharge desks could be more efficient and the food a little better, but i would say that you stand a chance of better PRIVATE health care in Malaysia for a fraction of the cost of UK private care.
Even if we were to return to the UK I am going to keep my medicare active here as another option... the flight and premium would be cheaper than trying to get private insurance in UK at my age and medical history. Especially as we will probably be back some time in the future when I fully retire.

M.
p.s. If any specific questions please PM me.. hope this helps.
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Old Oct 2nd 2015, 2:47 pm
  #75  
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Default Re: MM2H - How to apply

Not sure if I am reading your post correctly but, if you are saying you can move your MM2H deposit to another bank with permission from MM2H, then that is,out of date information. You cannot these days.
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