rogerluli

I would suppose that political activity would be right up there with criminal activity in making one persona non grata...

RedApe

Or perceived political activity. Lego people with a policemen with handcuffs sneaking up on a thug? A guy who "sort of, kind of" looks like it might be a 1950's Communist drinking coffee?
Or maybe it's the Boatman of Penang, or the kids on swings...very subversive!

Or maybe it was his cutting down of oil palms in a Sumatran plantation to spell out "S.O.S."? Mind you, he paid for the hillside and the trees. Maybe that stepped on some pro-palm oil toes, though.

Fenella

Hi Merlinman, Sorry to hear about your problems.
Concerning your reply - I fail to see why you would think that I was looking for sympathy. We are very happy with our chosen lifestyle.

I was making the point that I would not want to have to make visa runs in my 70s/80s - I do believe that would be stressful.

We were granted MM2H because we meet all the criteria. Part of that criteria does not include the need to reside in Malaysia - No abuse of the system! Our fixed deposit is in a Malaysian bank, we also have other funds invested with Malaysian banks ie. contributing to the economy. Not sure why this would make things harder for long term immigrants.

Anyway, sorry that you have a problem with this but wish you success with your MM2H application.

rogerluli

I'm sure it's best not to imagine that Malaysia is anything like a liberal democracy...
"Malaysian newspaper publishes 'how to spot a gay' checklist "
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...lgbt-checklist

InVinoVeritas

People obviously have different interpretations of MM2H and its role in the Malaysian economy.

I don't know the reasons behind its adoption by Malaysia but looking at the rules it's not too difficult to surmise.

The visa requires a fixed deposit (for over 50's) of RM150K which can be reduced by RM50K for certain approved expenses. This doesn't really amount to an investment in Malaysia nor does it constitute a huge influence on Malaysia's currency reserves given the relatively limited success of the program.

Apart from that there are no obligations for an MM2H visa holder. No need to bank, buy or rent a property or make a tax return in Malaysia. In fact, no requirement to spend a day or a Ringitt in Malaysia throughout the whole 10 years of the visa's life.

Based on that, what Fenella does is perfectly within the rules and, as far as I can tell, also within the spirit. At the other end of the spectrum are those who spend nearly all their time here. Most MM2Hers are snowbirders dividing their time between Malaysia and their home country. I suspect a large percentage of MM2Hers are those that get their visa and hardly ever come back - they are mainly Chinese, Korean and Japanese and for them the MM2H visa is simply a ready-to-go Plan B.

So why does MM2H exist? I think the answer must simply be to provide a proper mechanism for those wishing to visit Malaysia on a regular or extended stay basis. In other words to stop visa runners and overstayers without prejudicing the right of bona fide foreign citizens to spend their time in Malaysia as and when they wish.

There are some incentives for MM2Hers settling in Malaysia (tax-free car, lower minimum property prices, discounts for hotels and attractions) but these are gradually being phased out.

MM2H may not be quite what its architects imagined and for its holders Malaysia My 2nd Home may not be quite what MM2H means. This is probably why the government is looking to make some significant changes.

Epicurious

What is so bad about visa runners??? (As long as they are not working and/or taking money out of the country.) They are bringing wealth into the country. Many of them are contributing more to the economy than the MM2H holders who don't actually live here.

Again, I ask: If a tourist staying for two weeks is very welcome, enticed to visit by all manner of expensive advertising campaigns, what is wrong with a tourist who stays for twenty weeks (not working, doing a visa run)? Does my western money suddenly become less valuable after a set time? Does it deteriorate after prolonged exposure to the humidity? Please explain.

It's high time there was a more flexible alternative to MM2H. Such as a one year, renewable retirement visa with a smaller FD and no income requirement (just proof of sufficient liquid assets to last for the year). That is something I could get behind.

rogerluli

If, as I have seen reported, the FD will be greatly increased to 500K RM or more, there will be very few takers for mm2h at that level, effectively killing the program...

Davita

Nothing wrong with those who do visa-runs especially, as in neighboring countries like Indonesia, they do not have such a great visa alternatives similar to MM2H.

But, if Immigration does not accept entry and suggests a more permanent visa is available as MM2H....then the visa-runner shouldn't bitch about it.

RedApe

I think there are three elements why some (not all) officials see visa running as a problem [Mind you I don't necessarily agree with any of these]:
1) Visa-runners are actually working on the sly, hence taking jobs away from Malaysians.
2) Visa-runners are a threat to the cultural integrity of the society, bringing in cultural values that are tainting the youth (drugs, hippie/hip-hop/punk culture, long-hair, Beatlemania, homosexuality, strange religions or even worse atheism, missionaries, communist or anarchist idealogy, stealing our women, acting in a colonialist/imperialist manner, etc.).
3) Other countries do it. They must have a good reason for doing so...so, so should we.

But making the economic and other criteria of MM2H higher, while reducing the benefits, actually has the problem of the "law of unexpected consequences". You make it MORE likely that there will be "visa runners" if you make it harder to be on the MM2H program or to obtain other long-term Social Visas.

Davita: "But, if Immigration does not accept entry and suggests a more permanent visa is available as MM2H....then the visa-runner shouldn't bitch about it."

The problem is if they can't qualify for such a visa or if the bureaucracy for obtaining one is so turgid that it is essentially impossible. They may not "have" a choice.

Epicurious

I look forward to a helpful article from Sinar Harian newspaper on "How to spot a visa runner".

Malaysian newspaper's 'how to spot gay person' list sparks anger - BBC News

InVinoVeritas

I think there is a fundamental problem with this line of argument.

That is because you are looking at this solely from the point of view of a Perpetual Tourist who should be given the freedom to choose where he visits and how long he stays, justified simply because his tourist dollars benefit the country.

Such a policy in Malaysia would very likely open the flood gates to uncontrolled immigration including refugees, asylum seekers, terrorists, criminals, tax evaders, human trafficking and the like.

The MM2H visa applicant gets very close scrutiny before being accepted (as Merlinman is discovering) primarily to avoid opening the gates to anyone who falls foul of the financial, security and political vetting.

If the MM2H financial requirements are significantly increased it would naturally limit the number of successful applicants but I really don't think MM2H is seen as an important program from a Malaysian economic point of view (it is a veritable drop in the ocean compared with the oil revenues). It is really more of a cultural program to encourage wider social integration and a more open multi-cultural society.

Epicurious

IVV "Such a policy in Malaysia would very likely open the flood gates to uncontrolled immigration including refugees, asylum seekers, terrorists, criminals, tax evaders, human trafficking and the like."

And who is to say that a visitor who stays for less than 90 days is less likely to fall into one of those 'scary' categories?? Other checks should be made to minimise these dangers. I'm happy to be interviewed, show UK bank statements, be fully open about the spending of my money in Malaysia and showing TPTB how I benefit them.

Davita

You are seeing it from your perspective. From a Malaysian perspective they do not need to offer any long-term visas to foreigners and, as IVV says in post #56 , they may wish to be careful on who they allow into THEIR country.

If an applicant cannot fulfill MM2H requirement which, in my opinion, are very generous compared to the neighborhood, they can go elsewhere.
If someone consistently arrives using a visitor visa and is denied entry by Immigration due to their many stamps...that's their prerogative.

InVinoVeritas

That is exactly why anyone over-staying their on-arrival visa is treated very harshly indeed and those visa-running are looked at with considerable suspicion. If you aren't prepared to go the MM2H route you have to accept being treated the same way as those from the "scary" categories.

Epicurious

1. I'm not overstaying and never have, in any country. An immigration lawyer confirmed that I am breaking no laws.

2. The length of time that a person chooses to stay in a country (within the law) has no bearing at all upon their moral character. Hassling all visa runners is a very blunt instrument; there must be better ways to weed out the ner-do-wells.

3. I would be happy to consider MM2H if it suited my circumstances. I'm not against jumping through a couple of hoops to retain the privilege of spending my money to enrich Malaysians. MM2H is too inflexible, with few advantages over visa-running and some disadvantages. I realise that my position may be irksome to those who have gone to great lengths to get MM2H only to find the few privileges once granted now being withdrawn by stealth. You made your cost/benefit calculation, I make mine.