JC3

For those MM2H participants who have made Malaysia their primary or sole home, what happens when the 'Principal Participant' dies?

Following the death, can the spouse remain living in Malaysia using their original MM2H visa, or would they need to make a new application?

If a new visa application, would that be on the original terms or the current terms?

Might the spouse even be forced to leave Malaysia? If so, how quickly after the death?

Anyone know?

Sorry if the answer is already on BE somewhere, but I can’t find it.

JC3

InVinoVeritas

It was discussed briefly in this thread:-

http://britishexpats.com/forum/retir.../#post11511107

If BB is correct then the partner could end up, in certain circumstances, having to leave Malaysia following the death of the principal participant.

Rajuae

Hi JC3

This is a really important issue and one that could affect all MM2Hs at some point or the other
The way I understand it, for Malaysian citizens, if one is a Muslim, Sharia law comes into effect in matters relating to inheritance. However, for non muslims the inheritance law is different as per the link below.
The Malaysian Bar
If the person leaves a will that is notaized and acceptable to the judiciary then there is no problem. However matters get complicated if he/she dies intestate as relatives other than your legal partner (And that too only legally wedded partner) , children and even other relatives may be entitled to a share of the estate.
However I am not sure how this applies of MM2H.
I currently live in the UAE where for expatriate non muslims (the catagory to which I belong) inheritance of local property is as per Sharia Law in case the primary Visa holder passes away intestate. If a will has been left behind then the estate is distributed as per the will for assets held in the UAE.
I think some clarification on this will have to be obtained from MM2H as the dependent may be unaware on how to proceed if the primary holder passes away and leaves assets behind in Malaysia. At the least a will that is acceptable to the Malaysian Judicial system will have to be put in place to avaoid difficulties at a later stage.
I would welcome any form of assistance on this matter and if anyone has already put a will in place, they could, perhaps, share the contents and the way to go about it
Cheers
Raj

Rajuae

Hi JC3

This is a really important issue and one that could affect all MM2Hs at some point or the other
The way I understand it, for Malaysian citizens, if one is a Muslim, Sharia law comes into effect in matters relating to inheritance. However, for non muslims the inheritance law is different as per the link below.
The Malaysian Bar
If the person leaves a will that is notaized and acceptable to the judiciary then there is no problem. However matters get complicated if he/she dies intestate as relatives other than your legal partner (And that too only legally wedded partner) , children and even other relatives may be entitled to a share of the estate.
However I am not sure how this applies of MM2H.
I currently live in the UAE where for expatriate non muslims (the catagory to which I belong) inheritance of local property is as per Sharia Law in case the primary Visa holder passes away intestate. If a will has been left behind then the estate is distributed as per the will for assets held in the UAE.
I think some clarification on this will have to be obtained from MM2H as the dependent may be unaware on how to proceed if the primary holder passes away and leaves assets behind in Malaysia. At the least a will that is acceptable to the Malaysian Judicial system will have to be put in place to avaoid difficulties at a later stage.
I would welcome any form of assistance on this matter and if anyone has already put a will in place, they could, perhaps, share the contents and the way to go about it
Regarding the legality of the dependent's visa I am afraid I am clueless.
Cheers
Raj

JC3

Thanks for the link IVV.
I knew something I'd read somewhere was niggling away in the back of my mind and I see now it was the potential problems that Stuurman's excellent post highlights.

JC3

bakedbean

There are a lot of different stories I have heard, including the one mentioned by Stuurman.

What I have heard recently. The dependent (usually the wife) needs to get her own MM2H visa after the passing of her husband. According to a friend who consulted a well known agent in Penang, this needs to be done swiftly.

However, another friend was bereaved last year. She is the dependent on the visa, and had 5 years left to go on the visa. She phoned up MM2H in Putrajaya and explained the situation. They said to her that it was OK to carry on with the same visa until almost expiry. After that, she would have to apply for her own MM2H visa in her own name.

So it seems that there is some flexibility on this.

I don't know but would imagine that a new visa would be on the current terms. My friend won't be doing hers for a few years, so that's a little while to wait.

bakedbean

Another thing about "frozen bank accounts" which Stuurman mentioned. I think maybe some banks operate in different ways.

I am in CIMB Preferred. Very recently I enquired with them about the bank accounts I have with my husband and the "What if" question. Most of our accounts with them are in joint names. They assured me that, in the event of either of us passing away, the accounts would NOT be frozen. They could still be operated by the living spouse.

So... best to check with your bank.

bakedbean

I was going to start a new topic but then remembered this excellent topic that JC3 started, so I'm going to type up a Step by Step "what happens", "what you have to do" and you've then got this from the horse's mouth, so to speak. And other folks can chip in with their experiences. It's good to have something on here for folks to refer to. There's very little out there on the internet and MM2H government site doesn't even cover the subject (at least not at this point - Sept 2015). Some don't wish to speak about it but, let's face it, we are all going to pop our clogs at some point.

A few of you will already know that my husband passed away 6 days ago, and I now have to deal with all the many issues here (as well as dealing with the obvious emotional side of things). So....I'll start writing up later today

quiltman

So sorry to hear about your husband Bakedbean. Hope everything works out for you - do you have family in Penang to lean on?
This subject would make a good sticky as each country has different rules and many of BE members must have similar thoughts from time to time.It's bad enough dealing with the death of a loved one without worrying whether you'll have to leave or can stay!
I have made a list of things to do when I go so that my wife can carry on living here with our sons.
In the Philippines, foreign wills are recognised so long as they are legal in the residents home country, although to be certain, we have had ours notarised here as well.
I am the holder of the SRRV visa( equiv to the MM2H) but if I die before my wife then for a few pesos, she can get it changed to show her as the principal and she just pays the annual renewal fee.
Funnily enough, my eldest son asked me only a few days ago what happens to my wifes resident status if I die before her!

skates81

My heartly condolences to BB. May God give you the strength.

bakedbean

Thanks quiltman....and skates also.

Well, isn't that very civilized in the Philippines. Not so here.

I've had a verbal conversation with a well-known MM2H agent here, and I shall probably use their services. They have said that, if you are not the principal visa holder (I am not), then a new application has to be made Well I already suspected this.

They said that there are no hard and fast rules as to when you should re-apply. My visa goes up to 2019 (I think). However, they recommend doing it ASAP since, in their experiences, the MM2H department is more lenient (flexible) in these kind of cases.

I'm inclined to agree with them and, of course, it's a bit of a gamble if you wait till the end of the visa. Rules may change

Anyway, when I've done the process, I'll do a write-up on here and, if the agent does a great job, I'll give them a plug too.

Scuba Tyke

My sincere condolences BB. I hope your MM2H application experience is easy for you. I would like to think that the MM2H office will make it so, given you have been granted the status already as a dependent.

ST

bakedbean

Thanks Scuba.

Here's the first write-up....Step One.

WHAT TO DO WHEN AN EXPAT PASSES AWAY HERE.
STEP ONE: GETTING THE POLICE REPORT AND BURIAL PERMIT

This is how it works if the deceased dies at home. If in a hospital, they should do all the required reporting.

First thing is to report the death to the Police. You need to know which polis station is within your jurisdiction. If you go to the wrong one, they will direct you to the correct one. So, best ask your condo manager or someone else which is the correct one (to save time in the future). As I understand it, you need to go to the polis station within 24 hours of the death occurring. But best to do as soon as possible as bodies do not keep well in this climate.

All police stations are manned by Malays so it’s really useful if you can take someone with you who speaks Malay. They do speak English but…..well, you know how it is. I had a nurse with me so that was really helpful. Make sure you have your own passport with you, and the passport of the deceased.

The object of this is to get a police report (Repot Polis) and Burial Permit (includes cremation). This will be required by the Funeral Director and the body cannot be removed without that.

We had hospice care at home, so I had already requested a letter from them in advance, which states something like
This is to certify that xxx is having advanced xxxx and is critically ill. The patient may pass away at home. Signed by Dr xxx.
This seemed to smooth the way with the police.

When you get the Repot Polis, check through it very carefully for the names to be correct, dates to be correct, etc. They had to have several go’s for our one. Even had me as the deceased at one point

Quite likely the police will also want to send their guys over to check the body. We had 4 police guys on motorbikes turn up. Just took a cursory glance at the body then off they went.

Despite what it says around the internet, I have an email from Rob Hawkins MBE, Honorary British Consul, who states that there is no requirement to report to the British Consulate other than to cancel the deceased’s passport at a convenient date.

Step Two (coming up) is to contact the Funeral Director.

PoolieAbroad

Sincere condolences bakedbean on your recent loss
God Bless

bakedbean

Thanks Poolie.

STEP TWO – FUNERALS/CREMATIONS AND SO FORTH

Once you have the Repot Polis and Burial Permit, you can contact the Funeral Director to come and take away the body and, if you haven’t done so in advance, they will discuss with you your requirements for funeral or cremation. They will also arrange to get the Death Certificate.

Penang Travel Tips has some useful information. Here’s a list of undertakers and funeral directors in Penang:-
Undertakers and Funeral Parlours in Penang / Pulau Pinang

As I understand it, MM2Hers can be buried or cremated. We did cremation.

Despite being told that you can choose whatever “package” you like from the funeral director, I did feel that I was somewhat steamrollered into some extras. They are also very much geared up for Chinese funerals whereby the body in casket is on display (face only) at a funeral parlour for one or several days before the actual service and, as I understand it, this is supposed to be the Wake. In the UK we tend to do it the other way around.

There are several crematoriums on the island. There was a link on Penang Travel Tips with them, but I cannot find at the moment. Here’s a link to Mount Erskine crematorium. You’ll see from the picture that there is no sign at all saying it’s a crematorium. You just have to know.
Mount Erskine Crematorium, Penang / Pulau Pinang

I’d been warned by another Brit who has “been through it” that the services are pretty basic. The crematorium “hall” resembles a wet market and there is no separation, no walls between the cremations going on. Thankfully, there were no other services going on when we went.