Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Old Aug 24th 2019, 6:00 pm
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Default Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Hi All

i have a Hong Kong passport and my wife and kids hold US passports.
we have been living in Hong Kong for 11 years now and am planning to move my family to KL through MM2H while I work in HK abd vosit them every month

the cost of living is very high in hk n it’s been difficult for my affording 3 international schools here

I have a few questions in mm2h and would appreciate your help

1. I have bank balance of 350k RM while retirement say that I need liquid assets of 500k. I own a house in s third country and a piece of land whose value will be around 2M RM. I dint have an official document sowing the house value but have website links that show prices in the neighbourhood. Would it suffice ?

2. We are 5 of us but I wanted to get my parents who are in late 60s as Dependents too. Would adding my parents ( a total of 6 dependents on my application) decrease the chances of approval ?

3. I findagrbts charging around 18k Ram for application. I want to apply on my own . Do you think it’s doable ? Or would it decrease the hances or be cumbersome ?

4. Where shall o get verified true copies from in Hong Kong ?

Many thanks for the help !
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Old Aug 24th 2019, 8:01 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

I assume you are in your 40's and you have children.
Here's a strategy. Apply for for Sarawak M2H. Although it requires the applicant to be over 50 there is an exception made if the children are in local international or other schools. There is no "asset requirement" in Sarawak but they do require one of the following:

1) Income/Pension of RM10,000 (couple =US$2440) or RM7000 (single applicant = US$1707)/month;

OR 2) A Fixed Deposit of RM150,000 (couple) or RM 100,000 (single) [US$36,600/$24,400]. You can also withdraw the fixed deposit down to RM60,000 (US$15,000) if you are using it for school fees, health care, or the purchase of property or car.

While they allow children as dependents they don't allow parents (at least currently). So here is what I'm thinking.

Apply for two separate Sarawak MM2H visas. I don't know you parents financial status but assume that they don't have adequate pension. You'd simply set up a FD of RM150K for them. Then for yourself you'd have a couple of options. One is to apply as a couple, the other would be for your wife to apply as a single and you'd use a tourist pass. Sarawak is a lot less problematic about this than the peninsula and you may have to fly in through Singapore and enter Malaysia through Kuching (no direct flights as yet).

The advantages vs. MM2H is 1) No asset check.
2) Lower FD (RM250-300K vs. 350K on the Peninsula)
3) Minimum balance for the accounts is RM120K (for two FD's in Sarawak) vs. RM150K in Peninsula
4) The floor for buying condos/homes here is lower than the Peninsular states.
5) Vastly faster from the time of submission to acceptance- 1-2 months. On the Peninsula it's taking people 1 year (though they promise to get it down to 4 months "sometime")

Difficulties: 1) You need to find a sponsor and there are no legal agents in Sarawak. Usually a sponsor can be found if you will pay the Personal Bond + a fee for interviews, helping with paperwork, etc. Security bond for a US Citizen as main applicant is RM2000. For a HK Citizen it is RM1000. This may mean that you might want to be the "main applicant" within the couple.
2) Not sure how the will handle the Journey Performed fee in your case. That could run RM500/person unless you get a a visa through the Malaysian embassy in HK. Commonwealth citizens are usually exempt. Like MM2H the annual visa fee is RM90.
3) Technically you can live in the Peninsula under Sarawak M2H, but the problem is the kids must be enrolled in a Sarawak school for you to get an "under 50" waiver.
4) Small expat community, but lots of temporary foreign visitors passing through. Because the locals embrace foreigners pretty well (less anti-colonial resentment and blaming than on the Peninsula) its easy to pick up local friends.
5) Five year vs. 10 year visa. Both are renewable. Sarawak immigration states that renewal is "just a formality" and that after the first five years they don't even require a sponsor, just a health check and the payment of fees. One issue is that you qualify because you have children attending school. If one of you turns 50 before the youngest leaves school no problem. I think that applies to uni as well, until they are 20, as long as they remain unmarried.

I always recommend that people visit Sarawak before considering moving here. It has substantially less racial tension than the Peninsula, about 1/3 Chinese, 1/3rd Malay and 1/3rd "Dayak" (indigenous tribal people) with a lot of intermarriage. Mixed race kids are all over here. Friendly, laidback. lifestyle with most people in the cities speaking English as #1 or #2 language. It's only one of two States in Malaysia that has a majority of Christians, and there is a quite strong sense of independence in these two States. Sarawak was an independent Rajahnate for 100 years before WW2. They are encouraging the schools to go to a 100% English curriculum in Math and Science (now currently used only in the Upper Forms though English and Malay and (in the Chinese vernacular schools) Mandarin is taught. This is a bit odd because Hokkein, Hakka, and Fujien are more commonly spoken about town. Not much Cantonese.

https://www.sarawak.gov.my/web/home/..._view/221/279/

Just an oblique idea.

There's been some talk about changing the rules...I expect before the end of the year. Hopefully they don't simply because MM2H version 0.2.

Last edited by RedApe; Aug 24th 2019 at 8:11 pm.
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Old Aug 24th 2019, 8:29 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Here is some info about Tunku Putra International School which just moved campuses and is offering reduced "lifetime" fees/tuition.
https://tphis.edu.my The other International School in Kuching is Lodge International School. There are several public schools that have high reputations St. Thomas/St. Elizabeth (original Anglican), some Catholic schools, and several Chinese "vernacular" schools.

In many respects cost of living is vastly lower than in KL but some goods are higher because of cabotage./shipping through Johor or Port Klang.
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Old Aug 25th 2019, 4:16 am
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Strategy 2: You could use your "parents" FD to pay for the car, and yours to ay for school fees. Don't know if your parents have assets and HK rent they can live on. And do you rent the property you own? But after placing the FD your whole bank account would be eaten up on the Peninsula. At least you'd have RM50,000 to hold in a separate savings bank account in Sarawak. Suggest creating several smaller RM10-20 accounts for your SM2H Fixed Deposit as you may be taking money out as "allowed withdrawals". Maintain two accounts: one for you and one for your parents at RM60,000 each (the mandatory minimums).

You are allowed to have a maid/housekeeper/cook here under SM2H. Some condos can arrange periodic maid/housekeeping staff that you pay directly. Much cheaper than on Peninsula (Indonesian or Philippine origin). Despite being "in Borneo" Kuching is a modern city undergoing rapid development. All modern amenities are available. Hospitals are quite good in some specialities with low waiting times. Lots of doctors, dentists, clinics, and 4 private and 1 public hospital.

As far as documents you'll need get double copies of BC for each child (and you and your parents) from the hospital/govt health office. These technically are "originals" and will carry stamps. No need to get them stamped again from a notary. One for Sarawak Immigration and save one to make a copy of one for the school. Probably no need to notarize the photocopy for the school. Check to see if the school needs copy of school records. Each main applicant may need to get a police "Letter of Good Conduct" record. Not everyone needs this-just main applicant. This wasn't necessary for Sarawak even as recently as a year ago, but may be now due to Federal stipulations. You can ask the SM2H people.

Marriage certificates for both you and your parents (as they will be applying separately). If you bring the originals (or copies endorsed by office in HK) you can get them chopped by a local Kuching Notary. Original passport copies (all pages) for all applicants. The first "particulars" page of each copy has to be chopped. Find a local Sarawak lawyer with notary service who will do everything as a package deal. Lots of them about.

Here's the official website for the Sarawak M2H program...though note that these are the procedures currently. It could change soon.
https://mtacys.sarawak.gov.my/page-0...awak-MM2H.html

Get originals of bank statements from the bank. They will stamp them. Parents, too if they have assets. This is just in case (shouldn't need them as long as you establish the FD's). If you go the salary/pension route you'll need copies of those documents either from the issuing agency (pay slips/pension statements) or banks showing the deposit.

Maybe transfer accountts to HSBC or OCBC for ease of transfer...both have Kuching branches. I note that there are CIMB, Maybank, OUB branches as well. All of these have Kuching branches and are allowable to hold Sarawak FD's in them. Standard Chartered seems off-put by the whole SM2H Fixed Deposit thing.
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 6:32 am
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
Strategy 2: You could use your "parents" FD to pay for the car, and yours to ay for school fees. Don't know if your parents have assets and HK rent they can live on. And do you rent the property you own? But after placing the FD your whole bank account would be eaten up on the Peninsula. At least you'd have RM50,000 to hold in a separate savings bank account in Sarawak. Suggest creating several smaller RM10-20 accounts for your SM2H Fixed Deposit as you may be taking money out as "allowed withdrawals". Maintain two accounts: one for you and one for your parents at RM60,000 each (the mandatory minimums).

You are allowed to have a maid/housekeeper/cook here under SM2H. Some condos can arrange periodic maid/housekeeping staff that you pay directly. Much cheaper than on Peninsula (Indonesian or Philippine origin). Despite being "in Borneo" Kuching is a modern city undergoing rapid development. All modern amenities are available. Hospitals are quite good in some specialities with low waiting times. Lots of doctors, dentists, clinics, and 4 private and 1 public hospital.

As far as documents you'll need get double copies of BC for each child (and you and your parents) from the hospital/govt health office. These technically are "originals" and will carry stamps. No need to get them stamped again from a notary. One for Sarawak Immigration and save one to make a copy of one for the school. Probably no need to notarize the photocopy for the school. Check to see if the school needs copy of school records. Each main applicant may need to get a police "Letter of Good Conduct" record. Not everyone needs this-just main applicant. This wasn't necessary for Sarawak even as recently as a year ago, but may be now due to Federal stipulations. You can ask the SM2H people.

Marriage certificates for both you and your parents (as they will be applying separately). If you bring the originals (or copies endorsed by office in HK) you can get them chopped by a local Kuching Notary. Original passport copies (all pages) for all applicants. The first "particulars" page of each copy has to be chopped. Find a local Sarawak lawyer with notary service who will do everything as a package deal. Lots of them about.

Here's the official website for the Sarawak M2H program...though note that these are the procedures currently. It could change soon.
https://mtacys.sarawak.gov.my/page-0...awak-MM2H.html

Get originals of bank statements from the bank. They will stamp them. Parents, too if they have assets. This is just in case (shouldn't need them as long as you establish the FD's). If you go the salary/pension route you'll need copies of those documents either from the issuing agency (pay slips/pension statements) or banks showing the deposit.

Maybe transfer accountts to HSBC or OCBC for ease of transfer...both have Kuching branches. I note that there are CIMB, Maybank, OUB branches as well. All of these have Kuching branches and are allowable to hold Sarawak FD's in them. Standard Chartered seems off-put by the whole SM2H Fixed Deposit thing.
thanks redape!
due to my personal reasons, I do want to move to KL as I plan to commute from HK on a biweekly basis.
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 6:36 am
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

my question is that I can have 400,000 RM in my bank account.

The rest is :

1. Stock investments, can this be considered part of the 500,000 liquid asset requirement?
2. I have money in my Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), can this be considered as part of liquid assets?
3. where to get "certified true" copies of documents in Hong Kong?

thanks a lot!
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 2:36 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Yeah, you'd have to fly through KL, Kota Kinabalu, Brunei or Singapore and make a transfer. No direct flights.
Hope the KL option works out.
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 3:37 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

I would suspect that since you cannot withdraw your MPF until you are 65 it is not "liquid". But the Stock investments might be considered liquid as long as there is no penalty at early withdrawal. "- You need to show proof of owning liquid assets that are above RM 500,000. These include bank accounts, stocks, bonds or mutual funds." https://www.propertylife.my/the-ulti...ond-home-mm2h/ However, Alter Domus says https://www.penangmyhome.com/apply.htm says "cash, fixed deposit, funds, bonds or any non-property, non-stocks investments". So there is disagreement.

Now if Alter Domus is accurate you may need to convert RM100,000-150,000 from your stock to cash, FD, bonds for the application period (3 months records prior to submission, plus time to approval). That would bring your cash account up to RM500,000. You could then show the stock as supplemental evidence of financial support.

Since you will need to place a RM350K Fixed Deposit (leaving you only RM50,000 cash/savings) you might want to draw down the stocks in any case. At least initially you'll have a lot of condo, school and other deposits and down payments to make. That RM50K will deplete quickly.

For Financial documents (including current salary) Alter Domus says "We strongly prefer to submit originals but if the originals cannot be submitted (like fixed deposit certificates), then please have the BANK CERTIFY THE PHOTOCOPIES. It is best that you ask the FINANCIAL INSTITUTION to issue you a letter on their official stationery that you have so much money in their banks.
** Bank letters must be backed up by bank statements. All documents must be in English or officially translated into English. We strongly prefer to submit originals. Certified copies are accepted if the originals cannot be submitted. Internet printouts do not need to certified.

I discussed BC's, Marriage certificates above in an earlier comment.

But Alter Domus states: "If it is not in English / Bahasa Indonesia / Bahasa Melayu / Bahasa Malaysia, please have it officially (by the government or embassy) translated to English. Both the copy in original language as well as the English-translated copy must be provided. The Birth certificate has to show that either the applicant/spouse are the parent(s) of the child. Certification [by a NOTARY PUBLIC] required if the original (meaning copy issued by the Records Office and stamped) is not supplied".
"Marriage certificate - (if your spouse is coming in with you) If it is not in English / Bahasa Indonesia / Bahasa Melayu / Bahasa Malaysia, please have it officially (by the government or embassy) translated to English. We need both the copy in original language as well as the English-translated copy. If your original copy is bilingual or trilingual (as in EU), then there is no need for translation. Certification required" https://www.penangmyhome.com/apply.htm

As you are under 60 you'll need to also provide Insurance Certification in English. It must show names of the applicant, wife or children (if your wife and children are coming). Schools also require proof of insurance though the may also have their own insurance scheme. See the Alter Domus site.

Some of the forms on the Alter Domus site (e.g. the Engagement Letter) are not relevant if you are applying by yourself. In other cases they tell you not to fill out certain forms because they will do it for you. As an individual applicant you will have to fill those out by yourself.

Here is the requirement for the Letter of Good Conduct. Hopefully you can get it in English.There is a very confusing section on this notice under "Terms and Conditions".

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/...f-good-conduct

Also note the new requirements regarding the Letter of Good Conduct for Singapore and Hong Kong Applicants.

Announcements - Year 2019 - NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR LETTER OF GOOD CONDUCT

Last edited by RedApe; Aug 27th 2019 at 3:50 pm.
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Old Aug 27th 2019, 4:02 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Possibly relevant:

"The secretary-general of the Tourism, Arts and Culture Ministry (Motac) said, however, that there has not been a major rise in applicants from the special administrative region of China that is experiencing pro-democracy protests.
“If there are any new participants in Hong Kong interested to come to Malaysia, they are more than welcome, but they must be genuine.I mean that they are not running away from something,” Isham said during a press conference here. Isham added that background checks would also be done on all MM2H applicants.

Last week, Reuters, citing a government official, reported that the MM2H programme that seeks to attract rich expatriates to live in Malaysia drew 251 applications from Hong Kong residents this year, compared to 193 applications which were approved last year. "

[This is comparing eggplant to pineapples...one figure relates to "applications" the other to "approvals"...and "approvals" in a year in which the government suspended acceptances for a full half year. Thus (without the suspension) "approvals" might have been @400...while "applications"this year seems to be on a pace of 335. Thus there really doesn't seem to be the surge in applications claimed. In fact, it appears to have gone down.].


https://www.malaymail.com/news/malay...ec-gen/1784301
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Old Aug 28th 2019, 5:59 am
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
I would suspect that since you cannot withdraw your MPF until you are 65 it is not "liquid". But the Stock investments might be considered liquid as long as there is no penalty at early withdrawal. "- You need to show proof of owning liquid assets that are above RM 500,000. These include bank accounts, stocks, bonds or mutual funds." https://www.propertylife.my/the-ulti...ond-home-mm2h/ However, Alter Domus says https://www.penangmyhome.com/apply.htm says "cash, fixed deposit, funds, bonds or any non-property, non-stocks investments". So there is disagreement.

Now if Alter Domus is accurate you may need to convert RM100,000-150,000 from your stock to cash, FD, bonds for the application period (3 months records prior to submission, plus time to approval). That would bring your cash account up to RM500,000. You could then show the stock as supplemental evidence of financial support.

Since you will need to place a RM350K Fixed Deposit (leaving you only RM50,000 cash/savings) you might want to draw down the stocks in any case. At least initially you'll have a lot of condo, school and other deposits and down payments to make. That RM50K will deplete quickly.

For Financial documents (including current salary) Alter Domus says "We strongly prefer to submit originals but if the originals cannot be submitted (like fixed deposit certificates), then please have the BANK CERTIFY THE PHOTOCOPIES. It is best that you ask the FINANCIAL INSTITUTION to issue you a letter on their official stationery that you have so much money in their banks.
** Bank letters must be backed up by bank statements. All documents must be in English or officially translated into English. We strongly prefer to submit originals. Certified copies are accepted if the originals cannot be submitted. Internet printouts do not need to certified.

I discussed BC's, Marriage certificates above in an earlier comment.

But Alter Domus states: "If it is not in English / Bahasa Indonesia / Bahasa Melayu / Bahasa Malaysia, please have it officially (by the government or embassy) translated to English. Both the copy in original language as well as the English-translated copy must be provided. The Birth certificate has to show that either the applicant/spouse are the parent(s) of the child. Certification [by a NOTARY PUBLIC] required if the original (meaning copy issued by the Records Office and stamped) is not supplied".
"Marriage certificate - (if your spouse is coming in with you) If it is not in English / Bahasa Indonesia / Bahasa Melayu / Bahasa Malaysia, please have it officially (by the government or embassy) translated to English. We need both the copy in original language as well as the English-translated copy. If your original copy is bilingual or trilingual (as in EU), then there is no need for translation. Certification required" https://www.penangmyhome.com/apply.htm

As you are under 60 you'll need to also provide Insurance Certification in English. It must show names of the applicant, wife or children (if your wife and children are coming). Schools also require proof of insurance though the may also have their own insurance scheme. See the Alter Domus site.

Some of the forms on the Alter Domus site (e.g. the Engagement Letter) are not relevant if you are applying by yourself. In other cases they tell you not to fill out certain forms because they will do it for you. As an individual applicant you will have to fill those out by yourself.

Here is the requirement for the Letter of Good Conduct. Hopefully you can get it in English.There is a very confusing section on this notice under "Terms and Conditions".

http://www.mm2h.gov.my/index.php/en/...f-good-conduct

Also note the new requirements regarding the Letter of Good Conduct for Singapore and Hong Kong Applicants.

Announcements - Year 2019 - NEW REQUIREMENTS FOR LETTER OF GOOD CONDUCT
Thanks for the detailed reply! appreciate your help
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Old Aug 28th 2019, 8:33 am
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Originally Posted by rs2000 View Post
my question is that I can have 400,000 RM in my bank account.

The rest is :

1. Stock investments, can this be considered part of the 500,000 liquid asset requirement?
2. I have money in my Mandatory Provident Fund (MPF), can this be considered as part of liquid assets?
3. where to get "certified true" copies of documents in Hong Kong?

thanks a lot!
When I applied for MM2H in 2015 I had the same question about stock investments. So I sent a message to the MM2H office, asking for clarification. I was told by them that stock investments were considered "not liquid" and could not be used. I had to sell a portion of my stock investments and keep the revenue as cash in my bank account for three months. Why three months? MM2H wants to see three months of bank statements showing that you meet the liquid capital requirements. Once I sent in the MM2H application with all supporting documents I invested my money again, waiting for the approval. In the mean time I didn't need all that cash.

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Old Aug 28th 2019, 5:37 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

I suggested something like this to an American retiree who had all sorts of illiquid assets (rents, properties, etc.). He had more than enough money coming in from those to survive, but was just short of the RM10,000 threshold. He also had a Social Security available (he wanted to retire at 62 but not start withdrawing from the SS until he was 70...and the benefit payout would be much , much larger). I suggested he start his Social Security for three months and simply pay it back and stop the retirement payout afterwards. He said "can I really do that?" I said sure, you can until you reach full retirement age.
https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/withdrawal.html

Probably other retirement programs have similar "Change your mind" provisions.
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Old Aug 28th 2019, 5:54 pm
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

BTW an update on the supposed increase in Hong Kong applications. There was no evidence in a spike, at least not yet.

"In 2019, Isham said the programme had received a total of 3,500 applications from various countries including Hong Kong.
However, he was not able to state how many were from Hong Kong as it is subject to the Home Ministry’s final approval.
“For now, suffice it to say that since 2017, applications from Hong Kong have increased 20% yearly,“ he said"

MM2H now has reached 43, 943 total APPROVED applications. 51 per cent of the applicants were 50 years old and above while the rest were below 50 years old. Obviously some of those that applied as under 50 will now be over 50.

In 2018 the MM2H programme received 5,011 applications (and only 3,339 approved THAT year), It's unclear how many carryovers have been approved this year but there was a 46.1% drop in approvals that year because applicants were not being approved. In 2017 there were 6,195 APPROVED Applicants. So the suspension reduced applications by about 1,174 (about 19%).






https://www.thesundaily.my/local/no-...kong-BC1307425
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Old Aug 29th 2019, 7:17 am
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Originally Posted by RedApe View Post
BTW an update on the supposed increase in Hong Kong applications. There was no evidence in a spike, at least not yet.

"In 2019, Isham said the programme had received a total of 3,500 applications from various countries including Hong Kong.
However, he was not able to state how many were from Hong Kong as it is subject to the Home Ministry’s final approval.
“For now, suffice it to say that since 2017, applications from Hong Kong have increased 20% yearly,“ he said"

MM2H now has reached 43, 943 total APPROVED applications. 51 per cent of the applicants were 50 years old and above while the rest were below 50 years old. Obviously some of those that applied as under 50 will now be over 50.

In 2018 the MM2H programme received 5,011 applications (and only 3,339 approved THAT year), It's unclear how many carryovers have been approved this year but there was a 46.1% drop in approvals that year because applicants were not being approved. In 2017 there were 6,195 APPROVED Applicants. So the suspension reduced applications by about 1,174 (about 19%).






https://www.thesundaily.my/local/no-...kong-BC1307425
Thanks its getting local media coverage here too
hope my application is approved smoothly
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Old Sep 1st 2019, 10:06 am
  #15  
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Default Re: Mm2H application from Hong Kong

Originally Posted by SushiFan View Post
When I applied for MM2H in 2015 I had the same question about stock investments. So I sent a message to the MM2H office, asking for clarification. I was told by them that stock investments were considered "not liquid" and could not be used. I had to sell a portion of my stock investments and keep the revenue as cash in my bank account for three months. Why three months? MM2H wants to see three months of bank statements showing that you meet the liquid capital requirements. Once I sent in the MM2H application with all supporting documents I invested my money again, waiting for the approval. In the mean time I didn't need all that cash.
They told me the same. But it was still accepted when I submitted documents of a mix of index etfs and some cash.
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