Gordon Barlow

It's odd, isn't it, that children rarely visit places that their parents visited. My Mum and Dad never left Australia (well, she did much later), although their fathers did. I never wanted to retrace those grandfathers' steps. My son has travelled fairly widely, but not to where his parents went, back in the day. His children come from Norway to Cayman once in a while for holidays, but I can't see them ever bothering to check whether his treehouse in Guatemala still stands! Maybe we all just want to make our own marks.

morpeth

A thought provoking observation . One aspect is there are areas of the world now less safe than before, for example places my father visited include places now too problematic to visit. another is changing interests.

Actually the older I get the more interest I am in my grandparents, and geneaology.as well as places where they lived.

One child of mine has little interest in visiting places I have been, while another child is very interested.

Gordon Barlow

I sounded off the other day about cuss-words of "back in the day", and how sometimes it's hard to know what is acceptable these days and what isn't. Taboo words differ from place to place, of course: one man's Mede is another man's Persian, right? I was once threatened with expulsion from BE for abbreviating the word Pakistani, because one of the moddies insisted the abbreviation was racist - at least where she came from. And a friend in Australia has told me never to abbreviate the word "aborigine" any more, for the same reason. Sigh. It's hard to keep up.

I've never been pulled up (in the real world, I mean) for not using someone's "preferred pronouns", but the time surely can't be far away, the way things are going. Will BE be in the forefront of that battle? We'd all better keep an eye out - especially us old codgers. It could get nasty!

Tweedpipe

Your post made me smile, especally the "We also weren't allowed to say hell, and even heck"..... etc.
In the early '20's those words would certainly have made my grandfather (whom I never knew) throw a fit. I say this as Mum once told us her family were sat for dinner one day, and on being asked a question she replied, "Ok". Apparently her father with a frightening look barked out loudly, "What did you say!! Don't ever let me hear you say that again my girl, do you understand!" She'd heard it said in school, but I'm sure never repeated it again at home.
The devil in me can't help wondering what the outcome would have been if at the dinner table she'd joked, "I now know how to put my panties on the right way round. They're marked C&A!"

scrubbedexpat142

Blimey, and I thought it stood for "Coats 'an 'ats"!

uk_grenada

If you think of the UK TV comedy of the 70's or 80's, there was stuff in there that would probably get you arrested today. Remember Alf Garnet?

Today, its not so much that you cant use certain words, or espouse a politically incorrect view, its that if you do, some bunch of Aholes, usually students will decide to 'cancel' you. The current cancel culture is that one lapse or slip may ruin your life, you may lose your job and be ridiculed online until you commit suicide or walk naked through the streets shouting unclean or i am guilty. You will not be allowed to express an opinion if it differs from their point of view.

People have been invited to talk in debates or give lectures to universities but then the students organise a violent response, LEcturers have lost their jobs for having the wrong views, or expressing them, or writing a book seen as heresy.

There are strong opposers of this end of free speech, Stephen Fry is one of them.

uk_grenada

There was an amazing interview on the parkinson show years ago, Bernard Manning, the absolute mechanic of northern stand up comedy was on with Esther Ransen, all through the show Manning was coming out with loads of politically incorrect humour, and Rantsen clearly was not amused. At the end, Manning turned to her and said - 'Esther, good comedy is holistic, eveyone and everything is a target, personally i think all of us should come together, the catholics, the jews, muslims, people of all colours, should come together, [she started to smile] and kick hell out of the [expletive - people who come from pakistan]

Bipat

Have been reading this excellent thread for a while but nervous of joining in.
However have to disagree with your post---think of the children who hear their parents using the 'words' and then use them to taunt children in their school class with 'Jew', 'P*ki' etc.
There are so many good comedians who joke about these issues without causing personal offence, Manning was not one of them!.

uk_grenada

Manning was an equal opportunities offender or - well anyone really, he was an absolute machine at it. The look on Esthers face when he said it was wonderous to behold.

I would maintain that comedy that offends nobody does work, but should the fact that someone is offended by it mean it should be banned, the books burned and the individual silenced? You realise such totalitarian measures have been responsible for much harm. Sure, muslims would like bacon banned, some religions insist on killing opposition or those who blaspheme. I am a firm supporter of the concept that while i may disagree with your words or view, i would maintain your right - and i do mean a right - to say it. If such comedy has no audience it will diminish, but suppressing it is in my view dangerous.

Can i recommend a book called 'What happened to you' by Dr Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey. [ https://www.bdperry.com/about ].

Its in the US top sellers lists currently. Its an in depth exploration of trauma, and how it is now clinically and scientifically viewed. Among many subjects, It dissects racism and explains how it happens in the mind of a child or even baby.

Think of our brain in sections, the most primitive parts deal with breathing and sensation. The cortex is our intelligence rational thinking mind. The problem is that visceral things are in the less sophisticated areas. When you become frightened and the fight/flight response kicks in, your cortex is essentially shut down, you are much less rational and the primitive areas generate the chemicals that allow you to run away from the dinosaur. Becoming sullen, turning inward, being passive, is actually the other end of the same response.

Take a very young black child. He is in a car with his dad. The dad is stopped, searched, shouted at, and verbally abused by a white policeman. The young child may not be able to comprehend it all, but he knows the white man is bad, he hurt his dad. This learning will be stored in his cortex and in the primitive parts of his brain, but in stress he will use the primitive areas faster, these may overwhelm his cortex, he rationally normally hasnt a racist bone in his body, but he has a racist primitive brain stem... As you know babies are frightened of heights at birth, they acquire this from ancestors. Imagine what a black baby whose 10 generations back relative was a slave might be born with?

Bipat

As my immediate family is mixed-race---I will stick to the comedy aspect of your posts!
Remember the comedian Jackie Mason, think of Mel Brooks they could/can make people laugh at Jewish jokes and nobody offended (as far as I know!)

uk_grenada

I am white, married to a black lady from Grenada, where i live and have naturally biracial children. To understand how racism is able to be passed on in effect generation to generation where there may be no logical reason, and learned but quite possibly hidden, these were revelations to me, but understandable when explained.

I can confirm mel brooks offended plenty of people, springtime for hitler??

scrubbedexpat142

I recall Bob Monkhouse doing something similar, but somewhat milder, ending up with blaming



uk_grenada

Bob Monkhouse on TV vs Bob Monkhouse in real life were 2 very different comedians. One of my favourites was Ken Dodd, he could give Roy Chubby Brown a run for his money in a late night show...

scrubbedexpat142

This was TV so I guess somewhat milder!

morpeth

It is all getting out of hand. I note in America quite a few stand=up comedians won't perform on college campuses any more. Hard for anyone to keep up with or even believe all this nonsense about political correctness, or for that matter cultural appropriation.