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Johnboyuk Jul 1st 2022 10:02 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13083686)

Zorba the Greek” influenced my life in another way, too. We might not have been in the New Hebrides at all, except for the lure of Crete, where the movie had been filmed. Somebody on our travels had told us about the caves of Crete, which had become a hippy hangout. We were never hippies, but we were low-budget travellers, and living in caves on a Greek island with eccentrics like Zorba became part of the dream. In 1970, after three years in Nassau, Bahamas - underworked and overpaid - we decided we were rich enough to retire there. On the way, in Perth, Australia, Linda took a course on teaching English as a second language, and I taught myself how to make a fortune playing the stock market. What could go wrong? Well... At the same time as I was wondering what had gone wrong, a trust company in the New Hebrides was advertising for professional staff. I went there and did my thing, while Linda showed tourists around the island and met visitors off the planes.

We never did make it to the caves of Crete, and nor did Bruce and Pam. Somebody told me the hippies are still there, and good for them. In idle moments, I wonder if any of them ever got stoned for sexual misbehaviour like the widow in the movie. Linda and I got stoned in Egypt, once, not in the nice way; but that’s another story.

For some background information, the caves in Crete where the hippies lived were in Matala, on the south coast of Crete. Celebrities such as Joni Mitchell lived there for a while making the caves famous. The caves were also used for ammunition storage by the Germans during WW2. Today, the area has become very touristy and the hippies have moved on. Probably to suburban UK mostly.

Matala - Google Maps

Except for the coastal scenes, Zorba the Greek was mostly filmed in a small village on the north coast of Crete, east of Chania, called Kokkino Chorio. The village has hardly changed and is mainly a base for tourists these days.

Kokkino Chorio, Crete. Kokkino Chorio (Red Village) in Chania. (villasincrete.net)

Then there is the village of Elounda in the east of Crete made famous by the BBC series 'Who pays the Ferryman' also starring Anthony Quinn.

Gordon Barlow Jul 5th 2022 8:17 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 
A happy memory from back in the day... We had just got back from New York, and my friend Ian was just back from a business trip to Singapore. "I saw Ross on the TV in my hotel!", he greeted me in the street here in Cayman. Well, I was glad somebody had seen the show. Ross - then about to turn ten - had won our local Monopoly tournament, and Cayman was one of twenty countries that sent their winners to New York for the World Tournament held every two or three years around the world. (Yes, it's still going!) The 1985 championship was held in New York, with all national champions and their families put up for a week at the Waldorf Astoria - which was and is still the only way I would ever afford to stay at the Waldorf!

The big TV coverage was badly timed, as it transpired. The event coincided with a massive earthquake in Mexico with thousands killed, and that drove other news items off the screen - in New York, if not in Singapore. So Ian got to see it and we had to settle for our personal memories of tense 90-minute contests at five tables in the ballroom, with watchers from 20 nations wandering around the place babbling in tongues. Ross was interviewed by a team from France's TV station; he had a non-speaking part in that, not being a French-speaker. They called him le benjamin, being the youngest competitor by years. He was in the running to be at the final table, overnight, but Jim the 34-year-old US champion predicted the pressure would be too much for the youngster, and so it proved. Never mind. Jim himself missed the cut, too.

We parents remembered the whole thing as a tremendous thrill, but he grumbled to a girl-friend later in life that it wasn't fun being the only child among adults, stuck in a hotel for a week.

Gordon Barlow Jul 24th 2022 4:45 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 
Morpeth, if you're still around... I have a question for you. How long would our train journey have taken in 1974, from Jakarta to Bali? (I presume the train didn't go all the way, and there was a ferry-boat for the last bit.) I have a faint memory of having an Indonesian "bath" along the way, which hints at its being a two-day journey. After a week in Bali we took another train back, but on the southern route via Borobudur. We would have stayed overnight in Jogjakarta, I think, to leave plenty of time to explore the site.

On the phone the other week my son told me his friends comment on his family's adventures: parents were Australians who met in Greece, lived in Vanuatu, son born in England and brought up in Cayman, etc. I said, "You can add that you were conceived in Indonesia, when we were on holidays in Java and Bali." His response was "Well, I probably don't need to go into the gruesome details [most children like to believe in some kind of an immaculate conception, don 't they?], but was it in Java or Bali?" I said I couldn't tell, because "we were at it every night, pretty much, in those days". So if there is a chance that the un-immaculate conception happened in the bathroom of a train, I would dearly love to give him something else to be embarrassed about.

morpeth Jul 24th 2022 6:56 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13130731)
Morpeth, if you're still around... I have a question for you. How long would our train journey have taken in 1974, from Jakarta to Bali? (I presume the train didn't go all the way, and there was a ferry-boat for the last bit.) I have a faint memory of having an Indonesian "bath" along the way, which hints at its being a two-day journey. After a week in Bali we took another train back, but on the southern route via Borobudur. We would have stayed overnight in Jogjakarta, I think, to leave plenty of time to explore the site.

On the phone the other week my son told me his friends comment on his family's adventures: parents were Australians who met in Greece, lived in Vanuatu, son born in England and brought up in Cayman, etc. I said, "You can add that you were conceived in Indonesia, when we were on holidays in Java and Bali." His response was "Well, I probably don't need to go into the gruesome details [most children like to believe in some kind of an immaculate conception, don 't they?], but was it in Java or Bali?" I said I couldn't tell, because "we were at it every night, pretty much, in those days". So if there is a chance that the un-immaculate conception happened in the bathroom of a train, I would dearly love to give him something else to be embarrassed about.

Yes I think you are right it was a two day trip, and my girlfriend and I stopped at Borobudur as well, having a day as you did.We stayed at a wonderful bungalow in Bali, first time, and second time stayed on northern Bali in large property owned by someone I knew. As at the time I was fluent in Indonesian, we saw some different parts of Bali than many tourists did in the day. The place we stayed at was owned by the owner of a radio station in Jakarta where I was a DJ, in English mostly, on Saturday mornings. I would bring in new music from Singapore or London , that hadn't been poorly copied on cassettes as most music was in Jakarta- I sold to radio stations and the few discos in Jakarta, including the coolest disco/club the world ever, the Tanamur in Jakarta.

Being a teenager in Jakarta was a dream at the time, and it wasn't so built up as it is today.

I doubt I would want to take a two day train trip through Java today.

Gordon Barlow Aug 1st 2022 11:31 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 
When we left our homelands to see the world, back in the day - 1963, in my case and Linda's - we had to carry little yellow booklets with proof of immunisation against Yellow Fever, cholera and smallpox. Maybe polio too; I can't recall. The injections made us immune from those diseases forever, it was said.

What a sad, sad world it is now, faced with a modern-day Black Death scare that requires face-masks for babies, a Biblical four cubits' distance between any two humans, and forced injections of blood clots every few months. For life. Dear God! Really??

How lucky we were, back then. To the best of my knowledge I was never exposed to Yellow Fever, cholera or smallpox. (Hmmm. Cholera maybe; I was in Haiti once, for a week; and the slums of the Middle East might have carried some, I expect.) I'd had chicken pox as a kid in Australia, and malaria and hepatitis in my thirties in New Hebrides, but none of those required a hospital stay, or four cubits' distance from anybody.

I can't say for certain, but I do wonder if all the dirt we played in when small, may have given us a natural immunity. Except for Yellow Fever and cholera, maybe. What do you reckon?

uk_grenada Aug 2nd 2022 12:18 am

Re: Back in the Day
 
I believe that you are somewhat naive and rather easily lead by propaganda.

Do what you choose but I would suggest you listen to people who have spent their lives learning about bugs, not those with a cheap axe to grind.

morpeth Aug 2nd 2022 1:58 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13132281)
When we left our homelands to see the world, back in the day - 1963, in my case and Linda's - we had to carry little yellow booklets with proof of immunisation against Yellow Fever, cholera and smallpox. Maybe polio too; I can't recall. The injections made us immune from those diseases forever, it was said.

What a sad, sad world it is now, faced with a modern-day Black Death scare that requires face-masks for babies, a Biblical four cubits' distance between any two humans, and forced injections of blood clots every few months. For life. Dear God! Really??

How lucky we were, back then. To the best of my knowledge I was never exposed to Yellow Fever, cholera or smallpox. (Hmmm. Cholera maybe; I was in Haiti once, for a week; and the slums of the Middle East might have carried some, I expect.) I'd had chicken pox as a kid in Australia, and malaria and hepatitis in my thirties in New Hebrides, but none of those required a hospital stay, or four cubits' distance from anybody.

I can't say for certain, but I do wonder if all the dirt we played in when small, may have given us a natural immunity. Except for Yellow Fever and cholera, maybe. What do you reckon?

I remember those Yellow Cards- and all the shots one had to take before living some Third World countries. I wondered why in just a few decades peanut allergies became so common - until I read several studies that showed much of the 'spread' of such an allergy came from children not being as exposed to nuts.



Gordon Barlow Aug 2nd 2022 2:01 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 
grenada. I think you meant this to go in the "Take It Outside" forum. I certainly hope so.

And a Happy Tuesday to you too!

uk_grenada Aug 2nd 2022 2:37 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13132385)
grenada. I think you meant this to go in the "Take It Outside" forum. I certainly hope so.

And a Happy Tuesday to you too!

I apologise!

I think im a bit thin skinned about vaccination misinformation, its partially my NHS connections, well the whole misinformation thing about protecting ourselves in a relatively innocuous way. I had an anti covid vaxxer uncle, i had...... There was the UK doctor who lied about the childrens MMR vaccination causing autism. He was eventually debunked, and struck off as a doctor but not till a number of children had died through lack of protection. The covid vaccination didnt/doesnt stop you getting it, but it does prevent you from dying pretty effectively and i also know that there is a provable risk of about 1 in a million people who had the astra zeneca variety getting blood clots, the mechanism of which is now understood. I survived typhoid in Tehran i was told partially because i was vaccinated - it just wasnt 100% effective.

Vaccination has saved lord knows how many. New vaccinations occasionally appear, and old ones are no longer needed as the world has eliminated the disease entirely. Smallpox is a case in point. The vaccination i and probably you had, protects us from it, cowpox and monkeypox. But the disease has died out now so babies havent been vaccinated in years, so monkeypox can get them now...

Has anyone told you about pneumovax? In the UK everyone at 55 or 60 is now given it once at the same time as a flu jab. It protects against pneumococcal disease caused by about 30 types of bacteria. This kills quite a lot of older folk in colder climates.

Yes its essentially a free country in most of the 'free' world, one can make an informed decision that you dont want it, one can also decide you dont want to be resuscitated if your heart stops, but one shouldnt then complain or require extra assistance or deny access to that assistance to others because of that decision.

BTW the yellow card - its still alive and well, as an alternative to the electronic covid vaccination certificate one can have an international vaccination card, they are still the standard in Trinidad and available in other countries, for yellow fever covid etc etc.

Does kids being exposed to dirt keep them healthy ? Yes thats also been proved now, the hypoallergenic and bacteria killling sufaces in houses and the level of cleaning means modern kids are polluted more by chemicals and of course emmissions etc but exposed less to bugs that challenge or teach their immune systems when young, so they are weaker later. Practices with babies/young kids vary globally so much its easy for statisticians to spot the later health differences. My sister is a consultant midwife / trainer in a large hospital, things like some countries feeding any/everything to kids from 3 months vs the 'american' model of highly processed sterilised packets/tins up to 1 or even longer is radically worse.

morpeth Aug 2nd 2022 7:29 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13132401)
I apologise!

I think im a bit thin skinned about vaccination misinformation, its partially my NHS connections, well the whole misinformation thing about protecting ourselves in a relatively innocuous way. I had an anti covid vaxxer uncle, i had...... There was the UK doctor who lied about the childrens MMR vaccination causing autism. He was eventually debunked, and struck off as a doctor but not till a number of children had died through lack of protection. The covid vaccination didnt/doesnt stop you getting it, but it does prevent you from dying pretty effectively and i also know that there is a provable risk of about 1 in a million people who had the astra zeneca variety getting blood clots, the mechanism of which is now understood. I survived typhoid in Tehran i was told partially because i was vaccinated - it just wasnt 100% effective.

Vaccination has saved lord knows how many. New vaccinations occasionally appear, and old ones are no longer needed as the world has eliminated the disease entirely. Smallpox is a case in point. The vaccination i and probably you had, protects us from it, cowpox and monkeypox. But the disease has died out now so babies havent been vaccinated in years, so monkeypox can get them now...

Has anyone told you about pneumovax? In the UK everyone at 55 or 60 is now given it once at the same time as a flu jab. It protects against pneumococcal disease caused by about 30 types of bacteria. This kills quite a lot of older folk in colder climates.

Yes its essentially a free country in most of the 'free' world, one can make an informed decision that you dont want it, one can also decide you dont want to be resuscitated if your heart stops, but one shouldnt then complain or require extra assistance or deny access to that assistance to others because of that decision.

BTW the yellow card - its still alive and well, as an alternative to the electronic covid vaccination certificate one can have an international vaccination card, they are still the standard in Trinidad and available in other countries, for yellow fever covid etc etc.

Does kids being exposed to dirt keep them healthy ? Yes thats also been proved now, the hypoallergenic and bacteria killling sufaces in houses and the level of cleaning means modern kids are polluted more by chemicals and of course emmissions etc but exposed less to bugs that challenge or teach their immune systems when young, so they are weaker later. Practices with babies/young kids vary globally so much its easy for statisticians to spot the later health differences. My sister is a consultant midwife / trainer in a large hospital, things like some countries feeding any/everything to kids from 3 months vs the 'american' model of highly processed sterilised packets/tins up to 1 or even longer is radically worse.

Thanks for your post- it is all too rare for someone to apologize or admit they were wrong about something.

The original post I took a different way hence your post surprized me.

It seems to me one of the issues surrounding Covid information was that all sorts of commentary being made about something that in reality required more study and experience to understand.

uk_grenada Aug 2nd 2022 7:38 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 13132477)
Thanks for your post- it is all too rare for someone to apologize or admit they were wrong about something.

The original post I took a different way hence your post surprized me.

It seems to me one of the issues surrounding Covid information was that all sorts of commentary being made about something that in reality required more study and experience to understand.

I think time to learn about the bug was a luxury that would cost lives? In an environment where people are being bombarded with truth and fiction, and and the news hounds are having a field day.

If the vaccination passed testing, then jam it into as many arms as possible, statistically it saves a lot of life and stops a lot of hurt, and yes there is some human fallout, some death, but it was all being examined so closely - countries were reporting a 1 in a million chance of death accurately. Norway for a while thought it was killing a few old people but it turned out to be a statistical fluke.

One didnt know the actual death rate from covid itself for over a year, but again the nhs number crunchers knew all along this would be true. The crude death rate in the uk was slightly less than 2% but if you can later eliminate the co-morbidities it falls to 1% but 1% DEATH vs 1 in a million sounds decent odds for vaccination?

morpeth Aug 3rd 2022 7:02 am

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13132479)
I think time to learn about the bug was a luxury that would cost lives? In an environment where people are being bombarded with truth and fiction, and and the news hounds are having a field day.

If the vaccination passed testing, then jam it into as many arms as possible, statistically it saves a lot of life and stops a lot of hurt, and yes there is some human fallout, some death, but it was all being examined so closely - countries were reporting a 1 in a million chance of death accurately. Norway for a while thought it was killing a few old people but it turned out to be a statistical fluke.

One didnt know the actual death rate from covid itself for over a year, but again the nhs number crunchers knew all along this would be true. The crude death rate in the uk was slightly less than 2% but if you can later eliminate the co-morbidities it falls to 1% but 1% DEATH vs 1 in a million sounds decent odds for vaccination?

I do not know enough to judge well, just pointing out that any such medical issue normally requires much study over tie- in the short time available mistakes could easily be made, and government policy-makers were faced with the difficult task of convincing the public using data involving extrapolations on less than definitive data often to engage in practices that were objectionable.

Gordon Barlow Aug 6th 2022 2:15 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 
Leaving controversial uncertainties aside... I'd very much like to know how and why the authorities chose four cubits (six feet) as the safe distance for possible Covid infection. Did they really just take it from the Bible, or did they do careful testing? (I haven't read about any such testing, but I presume there was some. I hope there was!) And, more important perhaps, were the medics of Biblical times correct in choosing that distance for lepers to stay away from the general populace? It seems to be a very ancient belief, from 5000 years ago in Egypt, one source says. Were the medics of those days clever and sophisticated enough to hit upon the optimum "personal distance"? And has it been in use anywhere since then? Was it for all diseases?

So many interesting questions! If we are to have faith in the modern usage, and those who prescribe it, we need some answers.

uk_grenada Aug 6th 2022 2:25 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 
The logic is about how far droplets fly if you cough, and i did read some reports in the press over a year ago that studies were done, but that those studies showed a metre was probably enough. There are lots of other factors about getting infected - things like the bug liking cold conditions, and that it could stay viable on different surfaces for differing periods - eg a steel door handle was circa 4 hours, a copper one - minutes.

The mask wearing - scientifically - is a lot more controversial. While those trained to use them in a clinical setting have clear benefits, their use by amateurs using non high standard masks, only results in a small advantage. A meta analysis by a uk university put it at a 9% better chance of not getting infected, but only in indoor close contact situations. In other words, a cubit or two distance is of more benefit than a mask. Consider - if a mask protects you from bugs, where do the bugs end up and do you prevent infection when you take the mask off, and how long is the life of the mask and what happens when you put it on again? These are no-nos with professional use, theres a right way to take it off nd dispose of it, and they are never put on again.

Gloves are actually a no-no. Your hands are to an extent anti - bacterial, gloves are not and can collect and distribute bugs.

winston_1 Aug 6th 2022 8:28 pm

Re: Back in the Day
 

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13132281)
When we left our homelands to see the world, back in the day - 1963, in my case and Linda's - we had to carry little yellow booklets with proof of immunisation against Yellow Fever, cholera and smallpox. Maybe polio too; I can't recall. The injections made us immune from those diseases forever, it was said.

No it didn't. Yellow fever was 10 years, smallpox 3 years, and cholera 6 months.


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