Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13134932)

As I've mentioned before (#10 above, I think), it's a small world sometimes. Here's a story from 1963. As I stepped off the bus from Southampton, in Earl's Court on my first visit overseas, Graham was walking down the street and greeted me: "Hello Pablo!" (my nickname from school, which was the last time I'd seen him - eight years previous.) We hung around a bit in London that winter, then went our separate ways.

A year later, Linda and I were dragged out of a shop in Esfahan, Iran, to meet some other travel-bums, in another shop down the street, and there was Graham again. "Hello Pablo!" He had set out to hitch his way back to Australia, and met up with a Japanese fellow in Spain who was headed for Singapore on his way home. We all chatted away, much to the amusement of the Iranian audience, then took off again - we were headed south, they east. He ended up back in Brisbane as partner of the same accountancy firm as my brother, and we made contact again in 1985. Now we chat on the phone every few weeks, and reminisce about The Good Old Days. Next time, I must ask him what happened with the girlfriend he had during the winter of '63. If he remembers...

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13136924)

We bought this house in 1997, and some of the things in it today were brought from the flat we'd moved out of. One of those things was a framed photo of a turtle - underwater, head-on - which our son had taken as a newly qualified scuba diver aged 13. It's on the wall above my recliner. In another room is another photo of his, from inside a sunken ship looking up the funnel through a school of silver fish. Both are great souvenirs from "back in the day". I guess we all have things like that, right?

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 13136964)

In 1967 my father took me to Egypt and we have the standard picture of being on two camels in front of the pyramids- and I have a picture of my father and a friend on two camels in the same location taken in 1947 - I have them framed side by side.

I had no idea my father spoke Arabic, we arrived at airport and jumped in a taxi and all of a sudden my father started speaking Arabic to the taxi driver, quite a surprise.

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13137670)

Well, first: what a great memorial of your visit 55 years ago and to have the two photos side by side! You're very lucky to have that. And second: how come your father came to speak Arabic? Was he there during the War? I'm guessing yes. I have a photo somewhere of two of my uncles, marked "Palestine 1941" - snow on the ground, and they were sitting beside their horses (Australian Light Infantry I think). I was in Palestine in 1965 - bumming around the region with my female companion - so it's possible we walked where the two soldiers had sat; but I'll never know. I don't think either of them spoke Arabic, though.

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 13137688)

I had uncles and great-uncles who were in the British and Australian armed forces in the Middle East but my father was in Eritrea. It was after the war ended he moved to Egypt, then afterwards with his work spent in Arabia and Lebanon.

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13138058)

I'm interested to know what your father was doing in Eritrea. That was before you were born, is that right? I've never run across anyone who worked there. Fascinating! Also, what was he doing in Egypt, Arabia and Lebanon?

I was in Egypt for a week or so during my Middle East adventure with the Australian girl whom I later married, and in Lebanon on the way there and the way back - but never long enough to learn anything about life there.

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 13138988)

He was constructing military facilities, yes before I was born. He said Eritrea was quite enjoyable- all Italian men were interned, which left several thousand Italian women free. After the war he visited Cairo, and through a contact became Aramco's representative in Egypt. Through that and later work he spent time in Lebanon- known until the civil war in the 1970s as the Paris of the Middle East...

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13139548)

It's odd, isn't it, that children rarely visit places that their parents visited. My Mum and Dad never left Australia (well, she did much later), although their fathers did. I never wanted to retrace those grandfathers' steps. My son has travelled fairly widely, but not to where his parents went, back in the day. His children come from Norway to Cayman once in a while for holidays, but I can't see them ever bothering to check whether his treehouse in Guatemala still stands! Maybe we all just want to make our own marks.

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13138928)

When I were a lad, aye... No, it's no use: I can't do Yorkshire! So... When I was a boy, we weren't allowed to say "damn" in our homes or anybody else's home. In a famous 1939 film, Clark Gable had said "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn", and it was considered shocking. But it did open the censorship gates a little bit, though not much. Our Grandmas could say, and did say, "I don't give a fig!" That wasn't considered bad, even though it was and is merely a variant of what our BE forums call "the F-word". We also weren't allowed to say hell, and even heck ("What the heck...?") was marginal for us kids.

It's interesting how times change language. None of us wants to give our moddies the vapours, poor dears; but it would be interesting for us to swap tales of forbidden words and phrases from "back in the day". With asterisks where warranted, of course! They allow ****, and even *****, although I suspect ****** would test their tolerance.

I remember a song from the movie "Anything Goes", which is relevant here. Does anybody else remember it?
In olden days a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking;
Now, heaven knows: anything goes!
Good authors too, who once knew better words, now only use four-letter words
Writing prose. Anything goes!

Originally Posted by Tweedpipe (Post 13140206)

Your post made me smile, especally the "We also weren't allowed to say hell, and even heck"..... etc.
In the early '20's those words would certainly have made my grandfather (whom I never knew) throw a fit. I say this as Mum once told us her family were sat for dinner one day, and on being asked a question she replied, "Ok". Apparently her father with a frightening look barked out loudly, "What did you say!! Don't ever let me hear you say that again my girl, do you understand!" She'd heard it said in school, but I'm sure never repeated it again at home.
The devil in me can't help wondering what the outcome would have been if at the dinner table she'd joked, "I now know how to put my panties on the right way round. They're marked C&A!"

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140230)

There was an amazing interview on the parkinson show years ago, Bernard Manning, the absolute mechanic of northern stand up comedy was on with Esther Ransen, all through the show Manning was coming out with loads of politically incorrect humour, and Rantsen clearly was not amused. At the end, Manning turned to her and said - 'Esther, good comedy is holistic, eveyone and everything is a target, personally i think all of us should come together, the catholics, the jews, muslims, people of all colours, should come together, [she started to smile] and kick hell out of the [expletive - people who come from pakistan]

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 13140235)

Have been reading this excellent thread for a while but nervous of joining in.
However have to disagree with your post---think of the children who hear their parents using the 'words' and then use them to taunt children in their school class with 'Jew', 'P*ki' etc.
There are so many good comedians who joke about these issues without causing personal offence, Manning was not one of them!.

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140253)

Manning was an equal opportunities offender or - well anyone really, he was an absolute machine at it. The look on Esthers face when he said it was wonderous to behold.

I would maintain that comedy that offends nobody does work, but should the fact that someone is offended by it mean it should be banned, the books burned and the individual silenced? You realise such totalitarian measures have been responsible for much harm. Sure, muslims would like bacon banned, some religions insist on killing opposition or those who blaspheme. I am a firm supporter of the concept that while i may disagree with your words or view, i would maintain your right - and i do mean a right - to say it. If such comedy has no audience it will diminish, but suppressing it is in my view dangerous.

Can i recommend a book called 'What happened to you' by Dr Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey. [ [url]https://www.bdperry.com/about ].

Its in the US top sellers lists currently. Its an in depth exploration of trauma, and how it is now clinically and scientifically viewed. Among many subjects, It dissects racism and explains how it happens in the mind of a child or even baby.

Think of our brain in sections, the most primitive parts deal with breathing and sensation. The cortex is our intelligence rational thinking mind. The problem is that visceral things are in the less sophisticated areas. When you become frightened and the fight/flight response kicks in, your cortex is essentially shut down, you are much less rational and the primitive areas generate the chemicals that allow you to run away from the dinosaur. Becoming sullen, turning inward, being passive, is actually the other end of the same response.

Take a very young black child. He is in a car with his dad. The dad is stopped, searched, shouted at, and verbally abused by a white policeman. The young child may not be able to comprehend it all, but he knows the white man is bad, he hurt his dad. This learning will be stored in his cortex and in the primitive parts of his brain, but in stress he will use the primitive areas faster, these may overwhelm his cortex, he rationally normally hasnt a racist bone in his body, but he has a racist primitive brain stem... As you know babies are frightened of heights at birth, they acquire this from ancestors. Imagine what a black baby whose 10 generations back relative was a slave might be born with?

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 13140258)

As my immediate family is mixed-race---I will stick to the comedy aspect of your posts!
Remember the comedian Jackie Mason, think of Mel Brooks they could/can make people laugh at Jewish jokes and nobody offended (as far as I know!)

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140230)

There was an amazing interview on the parkinson show years ago, Bernard Manning, the absolute mechanic of northern stand up comedy was on with Esther Ransen, all through the show Manning was coming out with loads of politically incorrect humour, and Rantsen clearly was not amused. At the end, Manning turned to her and said - 'Esther, good comedy is holistic, eveyone and everything is a target, personally i think all of us should come together, the catholics, the jews, muslims, people of all colours, should come together, [she started to smile] and kick hell out of the [expletive - people who come from pakistan]

Originally Posted by Expatrick (Post 13140275)

I recall Bob Monkhouse doing something similar, but somewhat milder, ending up with blaming




Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140276)

Bob Monkhouse on TV vs Bob Monkhouse in real life were 2 very different comedians. One of my favourites was Ken Dodd, he could give Roy Chubby Brown a run for his money in a late night show...

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140228)

If you think of the UK TV comedy of the 70's or 80's, there was stuff in there that would probably get you arrested today. Remember Alf Garnet?

Today, its not so much that you cant use certain words, or espouse a politically incorrect view, its that if you do, some bunch of Aholes, usually students will decide to 'cancel' you. The current cancel culture is that one lapse or slip may ruin your life, you may lose your job and be ridiculed online until you commit suicide or walk naked through the streets shouting unclean or i am guilty. You will not be allowed to express an opinion if it differs from their point of view.

People have been invited to talk in debates or give lectures to universities but then the students organise a violent response, LEcturers have lost their jobs for having the wrong views, or expressing them, or writing a book seen as heresy.

There are strong opposers of this end of free speech, Stephen Fry is one of them.

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140253)

Manning was an equal opportunities offender or - well anyone really, he was an absolute machine at it. The look on Esthers face when he said it was wonderous to behold.

I would maintain that comedy that offends nobody does work, but should the fact that someone is offended by it mean it should be banned, the books burned and the individual silenced? You realise such totalitarian measures have been responsible for much harm. Sure, muslims would like bacon banned, some religions insist on killing opposition or those who blaspheme. I am a firm supporter of the concept that while i may disagree with your words or view, i would maintain your right - and i do mean a right - to say it. If such comedy has no audience it will diminish, but suppressing it is in my view dangerous.

Can i recommend a book called 'What happened to you' by Dr Bruce Perry and Oprah Winfrey. [ [url]https://www.bdperry.com/about ].

Its in the US top sellers lists currently. Its an in depth exploration of trauma, and how it is now clinically and scientifically viewed. Among many subjects, It dissects racism and explains how it happens in the mind of a child or even baby.

Think of our brain in sections, the most primitive parts deal with breathing and sensation. The cortex is our intelligence rational thinking mind. The problem is that visceral things are in the less sophisticated areas. When you become frightened and the fight/flight response kicks in, your cortex is essentially shut down, you are much less rational and the primitive areas generate the chemicals that allow you to run away from the dinosaur. Becoming sullen, turning inward, being passive, is actually the other end of the same response.

Take a very young black child. He is in a car with his dad. The dad is stopped, searched, shouted at, and verbally abused by a white policeman. The young child may not be able to comprehend it all, but he knows the white man is bad, he hurt his dad. This learning will be stored in his cortex and in the primitive parts of his brain, but in stress he will use the primitive areas faster, these may overwhelm his cortex, he rationally normally hasnt a racist bone in his body, but he has a racist primitive brain stem... As you know babies are frightened of heights at birth, they acquire this from ancestors. Imagine what a black baby whose 10 generations back relative was a slave might be born with?

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140260)

I am white, married to a black lady from Grenada, where i live and have naturally biracial children. To understand how racism is able to be passed on in effect generation to generation where there may be no logical reason, and learned but quite possibly hidden, these were revelations to me, but understandable when explained.

I can confirm mel brooks offended plenty of people, springtime for hitler??

Originally Posted by morpeth (Post 13140324)

And there were others who felt making fun of te Nazis a good thing.

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140276)

Bob Monkhouse on TV vs Bob Monkhouse in real life were 2 very different comedians. One of my favourites was Ken Dodd, he could give Roy Chubby Brown a run for his money in a late night show...

Originally Posted by uk_grenada (Post 13140331)

Springtime for hitler isnt that simple unfortunately - while the whole core of the gag was to make a completely impossible play, supporting nazis, so they could steal the money from backers [what could go wrong], the film makers also succeeded in annoying the jewish community, because the protagonists - were jewish con men.

Do you remember the furore after the monty python team made life of brian? John Cleese actually went on TV with an arch bishop and took the pi.. out of him. 'I mean - he and i share initials, JC'

https://youtu.be/SGI9UevrzGc

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow (Post 13141905)

Digressing for a moment... The other day I sent a photo of a heavily over-crowded Indian train to a friend of mine who hitched from London to Singapore in 1964-5 and asked if he had ever travelled on "one of these". Here's his reply, verbatim.The Taki in the story is a Japanese chap he met up with in Spain. Linda and I bumped into them in Iran for a fifteen-minute conversation. Then they left for Pakistan and we for Iraq. He and I hooked up again in '95 when I visited Australia, and now we chat on WhatsApp once in a while. We were at school together, and met again in London in '63.

Yep! The first attempt we stood back and allowed the women & children get on, as you do, but when we were still on the platform when the train left, guess who was first on when the next train came in the next day.We slept In the waiting room that night and the guards wanted us to leave and then levelled their guns at us to move.All I could think is if they pull their triggers I would have a hole the size of a football where my stomach was. BUT the inscrutable oriental Taki managed to convince the guards that we would leave in the morning, for sure.So we slept there and when the next train came in we were first on.But once on you grabbed the best seat & we sat down.The locals laid down on the seats & did not give a hoot about the locals.First in best dressed attitude. But the other issue was we did not have tickets and when asked for them Taki replied in Japanese and I answered in bad German.but another passenger who was in the same carriage dobbed us in to the conductor saying we spoke English.The end was we travelled for free (yes I know we were tight arses but we were 1 day behind for doing the right thing). In the carriage it is ok to bring the chooks, pigs,children yes anything.I do not know where the toilets were and I dread to think but you could go out on the landing between the carriages and hang on ,,,,,they were very broad minded for that era. Mind you the first class was a lot better which is where we ended up because we did not speak English. That was the only train we took, it was trucks from then on as they were a little faster a little more dangerous, as the road rules had not been written then.

An American couple Linda & I met in Vila in the 1970s (they stayed in our unofficial and illegal "youth hostel") said if we ever got to India we must NEVER buy a third-class ticket on the trains. Second class only, they said. They had ridden a motorbike through India. In Nepal they bought a beautiful local carpet and shipped it back to New York. We all roared with laughter at the prospect of their parents inspecting the carpet: it was decorated with swastikas, and they were all Jewish.

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 13141957)

(The swastika was an ancient Sanskrit sign meaning 'good will' used in India long before Germany.)

Originally Posted by Bipat (Post 13142044)

It doesn't sound real! Certainly cities, towns can be overwhelming to new visitors with the number of people, even large villages but not open countryside.
Would just be occasional people walking or cycling. Nowadays with good roads, car drivers avoid long distance open country areas if they can, as if they break down no help for miles.
Years ago, when overnight bus journeys, they just stopped and men would use the side of the bus! Women just 'waited' or a group find some bushes to go behind!
Now there are service stations!