JerseyZA

Hello! (great forum BTW)

I'm a South African citizen and I recently naturalised as a British Citizen in the Channel Islands. One of the down sides of becoming a British Citizen this way is that you have the following in the back of your passport:

The holder is not entitled to benefit from EU provisions relating to employment or establishment

This means that I cannot work or live in the EU.

However...from what I understand...I can live/work in the Republic Of Ireland:

Common Travel Area says the following:

British citizens in Ireland

Under Irish law, all British citizens – including Manx people and Channel Islanders who are not entitled to take advantage of the European Union's freedom of movement provisions – are exempt from immigration control and immune from deportation.[49] They have, with limited exceptions,[50] never been treated as foreigners under Irish law.

All was making sense until I read about the limited exceptions! This is where I became confused!

To quote Wikipedia again...the following is said about the exceptions:

The only exception being that between 1962 and 1999 those British citizens born outside the United Kingdom were not exempt. See the 1952 agreement

So I looked at the 1952 agreement notes in Wikipedia:

The scope of the Irish provision was much more restrictive than the British legislation as it excluded from immigration control only those British citizens born in the United Kingdom, and imposed immigration controls on those born outside the UK. The latter group would have included individuals who were British citizens by descent or by birth in a British colony. This discrepancy between Britain's definition of a British citizen and Ireland's definition was not resolved until 1999


So what I am basically asking is: Can I, as a British Citizen who has naturalised in the Channel Islands (and has the EU restriction stamped in the passport), live/work in the Republic of Ireland?

Just a couple other points:

1) I have contacted the Irish embassy via email and have had not reply to date regarding this

2) And no, I have no ties/links to the UK so I am unable to have the stamp removed from my British passport restricting me from living/working in the EU. The only way to have this removed is for me to live in the UK for 5 years.

Can anyone help? I have Googled this like crazy but cannot find much useful information regarding this.

Thanks for any help. If I have left out some detail then please let me know and I will update the post!

BritInParis

The short answer is yes.

JerseyZA

Thanks BrisInParis!

Care to expand on your answer? I thought the exclusions included me in there for some reason...

BritInParis

As your post mentioned the Irish government clarified the situation in 1999.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1999/en/si/0097.html

"Every person who is a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland is hereby exempted from the application of the provisions of the Aliens Act, 1935 (No. 14 of 1935), and from the application of the provisions of every aliens order made under section 5 of that Act before the making of this order."

Since 1999 therefore any British citizen is no longer considered an alien and not subject to immigration control in the Republic. This makes your lack of EU citizenship irrelevant.

JerseyZA

Many thanks for that BritInParis...that's very encouraging!

Now, a little more detail in my plans. Even though I plan on living in Ireland I don't plan on working there. After 5 years of living there will I be able to naturalise as an Irish citizen? Do I need to get my "Channel Islands" passport stamped upon arrival so that immigration knows when I arrived and how long I have been in the country to determine if I have been there long enough to naturalise?

Thanks for all your help!

PS: Who do these exceptions apply to? Or are they no longer valid since 1999?

BritInParis

Yes. This is important.

http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/WP11000030#Q7

"Permission to remain in the State, evidenced by the Garda National Immigration Bureau placing a permission stamp in the person’s passport, is a matter of vital importance for all applicants for Citizenship. Applicants must ensure that their registration with the Garda National Immigration Bureau, 13/14 Burgh Quay, Dublin 2, is kept up to date during their residency in this country.

Part of the procedure employed to determine an applicants residency, in the processing of Citizenship applications, is a thorough examination of GNIB residency stamps. The requirement to renew GNIB registration at regular periods allows for greater control over the immigration process whereby checks can be carried out to ensure that a person is still meeting the conditions attached to the type of permission he or she was granted.
Work permits, letters from employers, or other Departmental letters are not in themselves evidence of having remained in the State."

As a British citizen however you will need to ask for your passport to be stamped. You also may wish to contact the Garda, inform them about your plans to naturalise and how they would recommend going about proving your residency as a British citizen.

http://www.garda.ie/controller.aspx?page=31

My understanding is that any exceptions concerning British citizens have invalid since 1999.

JAJ

The situation is no different to any other British citizen or EEA/Swiss citizen seeking naturalisation as an Irish citizen. In these cases, other evidence of residence is accepted. It would be a good idea to keep copies of all documents. Not clear if it's a good idea to ask for a permission that's not required.


It's not clear that the "exceptions" were ever enforced before 1999.

It would probably be a good idea to get advice from an Irish immigration lawyer to confirm.

However, as long as it's clear that Irish domestic law exempts ALL British citizens from immigration control, independent of EU/EEA concessions, then the special stamp in a British Islands (Jersey/Guernsey/Isle of Man) passport is irrelevant. It's possible that many Irish officials will even unaware of this distinction and there seems to be no need to advertise it. Especially since relatively few British citizens living in Ireland ever seek naturalisation as Irish citizens.

BritInParis

This is the crux of the problem. It's probably not a situation that comes up very often. Given that there seems be no publicly available information regarding the procedure for those free from immigration control to prove their residency in Ireland for naturalisation purposes then requesting an entry/exit stamp seems to be the only current option unless the OP contacts the Gardai for further clarification. I suggest consulting an immigration lawyer at this point would be unnecessary.

JAJ

Although it's not that common for EU/EEA citizens to naturalise in Ireland, it's not unknown. The naturalisation application form suggests that for EEA citizens, permission stamps are not required and instead, alternative proof of residence is accepted. http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Form%...rch%202013.pdf

The problem with calling the Garda is that they may not know the answer either. That said, I doubt permission stamps are given to other British citizens and there are probably at least a few who have naturalised as Irish citizens over the years.

Perhaps the question would be better directed at the Naturalisation service?

BritInParis

Agreed. That application form suggests that you can use other documents for proof of residency but then also lists your copy of your GNIB card as requirement which is something that a British citizen wouldn't possess. I would suggest the OP would be best to clarify what the requirements before arriving in Ireland.

JAJ

However, application forms are not the law and are rarely designed to cover every possible situation. There's no legal reason why a British citizen should require a GNIB card in order to be naturalised.

He/she can try, but may not be possible to get any kind of response. A phone call, even if correct information can be obtained, is no good. Needs to be in writing to have any value. Advice from an immigration solicitor may be useful, but costs money, and many solicitors don't do research-related issues.

If he or she is moving to Ireland anyway, then it may be possible to write to the Naturalisation service after arriving and ask if a British citizen is expected to have a GNIB card or not. A response in writing confirming that's it's not required can then be saved for later on. However it's possible that they will not respond, so in that case it would be necessary to get the local parliamentary representative (TD) involved to force them to answer. Note that British citizens are eligible to vote in most Irish elections.

BritInParis

The legal requirement would be residence for a prescribed number of years, in this case, five. Proving that on the other hand is a procedural requirement which seems to be a grey area in this case.

A parliamentary complaint will always elicit a prompt response from the civil service but I think that would be getting ahead of ourselves. A simple phone call or letter is likely to suffice for the time being.

JAJ

Irish citizens in the United Kingdom have the same issue - and don't need to provide residence permits, etc, when applying for naturalisation. There are other ways to prove residence/presence in the country. And in the absence of a legal requirement for a British citizen to have GNIB registration (from the Act/Regulations), would there be any reason to expect that such substitute evidence would not be acceptable?

BritInParis

I'm sure it would be - just exactly what would be deemed acceptable is the question

scot47

It comes as a surprise to many to learn that the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are not in the EU.

It would be better to direct a question to the competent authorities inj Dublin, perhaps via a lawyer specialising in Immigration.