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Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Old Oct 16th 2018, 6:42 pm
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Default Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Hi to all, thought id post about how things have progressed so far for my wife and I since our move to Ireland. Might be useful for anyone thinking about making the move and id be happy to answer any questions. We are following the process of applying for an Irish residence card for my wife through the EU DIRECTIVE 2004/38/EC.

Im a British citizen and my wife is Brazilian. We arrived at Dublin airport on the 18th of August this year, arriving from Toronto, Canada which is where we had been for the last 6 months. We went through the NON EU/EEA passport line and explained our situation and intention to follow directive 2004/38/EC to the immigration officer, who was initially a little negative until we started showing print outs of Article 5 to 10 of the directive and showed we understood the basic procedure of what we needed to do, then she was extremely helpful and informed us that we should make our residence card application ASAP, even if we didnt have all the required documents. Basically have a print out of articles 5 to 10 of the directive with you and know the basic procedure so you can be confident with the immigration officer when explaining the situation. The officer stamped my wifes passport giving her 3 months of time in ROI.

Our next step was to get our EU1 application sent away ASAP. We wrote a short letter explaining our intentions to follow the directive, why we couldnt provide all of the details they asked (Job, permanent address, PPS number) and we were sending the application now as the immigration officer had told us to do so as there was a long waiting time. At time of writing the waiting time is 6 months, and by sending it early we have acknowledgement that they received our application on the 23rd August and our decision date will be the 22nd February. So get the application sent ASAP would be my advice. I was fortunate enough to find a job within 2 weeks of arriving, and we got an apartment rental in the 3rd week. Once you have a job offer you are able to apply for a PPS number. We are living in a small town called Monaghan in Co. Monaghan, close to the border with Northern Ireland. I simply went to the local office with identity documents, proof of address and work. Got the number posted to me within 2 weeks and sent off the additional details for our EU1 application.

We have just received a letter from the EU TREATY RIGHTS DIVISION and they have asked us for a lot more information, including utility bills with both our names, pay slips, colour photocopy of EVERY PAGE in each of our passports (THEY MEAN EVERY PAGE, I SENT JUST THE MAIN AND STAMPED PAGES AND THEY WANT MORE!). And to top it off they want more evidence of our marriage (we already sent our marriage certificate). I will make a separate post on this as im hoping someone else might have some knowledge to share because they are requesting a lot of information which I was not expecting seeing as we are married!

Although the letter doesnt directly tell us to go and register at our local Garda, I assume from reading other peoples stories that because we have a letter showing that we are applying for a residence card we can now go to the Garda to register and apply for the temporary passport stamp to allow my wife to stay up to the decision date in February? If anyone can advise us on that would be great! But were going to go and try on Monday when the immigration department is next open whatever happens.

And this is as far as we have got so far. Any questions are welcome and we would love to hear any advice! Especially on my next post specific to their request for more evidence of our marriage, thats the only thing im worried about currently.
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Old Oct 16th 2018, 6:56 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

As mentioned above, we have been asked for a lot more information, but im a little unsure on how to approach their request for further evidence of our marriage. We have sent them a copy of our marriage certificate, but they are still asking for additional information which im not sure if that should be allowed? Their was no mention of needing to do so when I read the literature on how to apply for the residence card. The full request word for word:

"It is noted that your marriage took place on 05/05/2018 in Canada. Further to this, we require documentary evidence of your relationship prior to your marriage. This documentary evidence should support details of key dates in your relationship e.g.
- How, where and when you met.
- Details of your engagement
- When and where you commenced living together.
This documentary evidence may include photographs with verifiable dates, evidence of joint travel e.g. for holidays or family occasions, dated email or text correspondence, previous letting agreements, shared bank accounts, utility bills and any other document or information you feel is pertinent to your application."

If my wife and I had a fairly standard story with all the obvious evidence I wouldnt be worried, but our situation is not that straight forward! I met Isabel when travelling around Brazil in June 2017. She asked if I wanted to stay at her place for a few nights and that turned in to 5 months in 2 different cities after she moved for work. I had always planned to go to Canada as I had a 2 year working holiday visa and eventually I did in November 2017 when i was short on money. About 2 weeks before I left Isabel decided she would leave her job and come with me, as a tourist initially and then we would figure out a way for her to work. She joined me there in January, but after a lot of research we decided to come to Ireland as it was really difficult for her to get a work permit in Canada (even with a psychology degree and 5 years experience in HR at a multinational company!).

Anyhow, we dont really have a lot of evidence because my name was on nothing in Brazil and Isabel's names was on nothing in Canada. So all we have is photos, maybe card transactions and a whole load of emails and whatsapp messages! Any advice on a good way to approach this is welcomed! I can only think to make long letter/story with photos, flights, bus trips and card transactions. Thanks
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Old Oct 16th 2018, 7:54 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Originally Posted by lee8889
As mentioned above, we have been asked for a lot more information, but im a little unsure on how to approach their request for further evidence of our marriage. We have sent them a copy of our marriage certificate, but they are still asking for additional information which im not sure if that should be allowed? Their was no mention of needing to do so when I read the literature on how to apply for the residence card. The full request word for word:

"It is noted that your marriage took place on 05/05/2018 in Canada. Further to this, we require documentary evidence of your relationship prior to your marriage. This documentary evidence should support details of key dates in your relationship e.g.
- How, where and when you met.
- Details of your engagement
- When and where you commenced living together.
This documentary evidence may include photographs with verifiable dates, evidence of joint travel e.g. for holidays or family occasions, dated email or text correspondence, previous letting agreements, shared bank accounts, utility bills and any other document or information you feel is pertinent to your application."

s
which im not sure if that should be allowed? ...... when dealing with immigration authorities, you should assume any and all information can be asked for.

You met in Brazil 2017 , YOU moved to Canada in November 2017, she joined you in January 2018, got married in May 2018. Very disjointed history.

They are obviously looking for evidence that you have a genuine relationship. You can only present what you have.
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Old Oct 17th 2018, 6:34 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Thanks for the response. I can understand where they are coming from, but my understanding from reading through the literature was that we would only need to provide further evidence of our relationship if we were not married. But it is what it is and im just going to make a running timeline with as much information as possible.

So far I have photos, card transactions and flight/bus tickets. Hoping to get some people we know from Brazil and Canada to make a statement saying they know us and our genuine relationship. If anyone has any good ideas on things to add we would be really grateful!
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Old Oct 29th 2018, 1:44 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Small update:

We visited the Garda last Monday and found out that we do require a letter from Eu Treaty Rights specifically instructing us to register with the Garda. But the chap there was very helpful and informed us that my wife already has permission to stay in Ireland up to the decision date in February, simply from lodging our EU1 application and receiving a letter with a decision date (over ruling the stamp she received on entry). Something we werent aware of from what we had read. He told us to send everything we can as soon as possible and not to worry about everything requested, but obviously the proof of genuine relationship was important. After that we should receive a letter to register with Garda and take things from there. We sent everything on Friday and now waiting for a response.

Can anyone tell us what you receive if registration with the Garda is succesful? Iv read that they will stamp my wifes passport with the "Stamp 4, EUFAM" stamp and then create a temporary residence card for her to collect at a future date.

And does anyone know if its ok for my wife to leave Ireland once registration with the Garda is successful? We would like to visit my family in the UK at christmas.
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Old Oct 29th 2018, 1:46 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

There’s no immigration controls between the UK and the ROI so I can’t imagine a Christmas visit will cause much difficulty.
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Old Oct 29th 2018, 2:01 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Thanks for the response. I read this page of the INIS site: Re-entry visa for an adult with stamp 4 which says;

"You do not need a re-entry visa if you hold a registration certificate (Irish Residence Permit or GNIB card) with stamp 4 EUFam."

Which I assume is what my wife should receive if registering with the Garda is successful? Just havn't found anything online with clear detail as to what my wife will receive.

When you say no immigration control, are you saying that when we arrive in the UK or on our return to Ireland we wont go through the typical passport lines having flown within the common travel area? (Apologies if that is a stupid question, havn't flown between UK and Ireland as we arrived from Canada).

Many thanks for your help.
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Old Oct 29th 2018, 2:31 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Your wife will receive a Stamp 4 Certificate of Registration card if her application is successful. The temporary six month stamp she was given on arrival will allow her to come and go whilst she awaits a decision.

No, it’s treated like a domestic flight.
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Old Oct 29th 2018, 3:01 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Thank you. Can you tell me if you found that information online somewhere regarding the Stamp 4 Certificate of Registration card? Also she only received a 3 month stamp on arrival, which I understood was standard for this scenario. However, the Garda officer told us that she has permission to stay up to the decision date on 22nd February (6 months from EU Treaty Rights receiving our initial EU1 application) merely from us receiving a letter showing recognition of our application and the decision date. So not that its a problem as the end result is she still has permission to stay up to her decision date, just wondering if the literature i'm reading is different to yours? Thanks
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Old Oct 29th 2018, 3:13 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Originally Posted by lee8889
Thank you. Can you tell me if you found that information online somewhere regarding the Stamp 4 Certificate of Registration card? Also she only received a 3 month stamp on arrival, which I understood was standard for this scenario. However, the Garda officer told us that she has permission to stay up to the decision date on 22nd February (6 months from EU Treaty Rights receiving our initial EU1 application) merely from us receiving a letter showing recognition of our application and the decision date. So not that its a problem as the end result is she still has permission to stay up to her decision date, just wondering if the literature i'm reading is different to yours? Thanks
Sorry, you are correct, I conflated two separate procedures.
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Old Nov 25th 2018, 10:03 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Update:

Little overdue with this update, but having sent all the requested documents on the Friday previously mentioned, we received our letter the following week to confirm that eu treaty rights were happy with everything we had sent and that we should visit our local Garda! And after visiting the Garda the following Monday, waiting 2 hours to be seen, then realising we had somehow put my wifes old passport in our file, getting a quick lift in a police car to and from our place to pick up the correct one (really kind of them to do that!) and getting back just in time before immigration finished, we got the stamp in my wifes passport. 2 weeks later we went back and collected a temporary Irish Residence Permit card too. The final decision date for us is February but the card expires in May, so I assume they have given an extra 3 months to allow us to appeal if we dont get a positive outcome in February. So it seems that now we just need to play a waiting game and in the meantime my wife can finally start looking for work!

Again, if anyone is in a similar situation and has any questions about any of the procedures I will be more than happy to help. This whole process has been mystery after mystery with no perfect guide online so we know what you are going through and will take time to help anyone we can.
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 7:35 am
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Originally Posted by lee8889
Update:

Little overdue with this update, but having sent all the requested documents on the Friday previously mentioned, we received our letter the following week to confirm that eu treaty rights were happy with everything we had sent and that we should visit our local Garda! And after visiting the Garda the following Monday, waiting 2 hours to be seen, then realising we had somehow put my wifes old passport in our file, getting a quick lift in a police car to and from our place to pick up the correct one (really kind of them to do that!) and getting back just in time before immigration finished, we got the stamp in my wifes passport. 2 weeks later we went back and collected a temporary Irish Residence Permit card too. The final decision date for us is February but the card expires in May, so I assume they have given an extra 3 months to allow us to appeal if we dont get a positive outcome in February. So it seems that now we just need to play a waiting game and in the meantime my wife can finally start looking for work!

Again, if anyone is in a similar situation and has any questions about any of the procedures I will be more than happy to help. This whole process has been mystery after mystery with no perfect guide online so we know what you are going through and will take time to help anyone we can.
Hey Lee
I read the part "my wife can finally start looking for work!" is it possible to work in ROI with a temporary Irish Residence Permit card?
Thanks for all the updates on your application my girlfriend and I are making the move to ROI on Sunday and you've really helped.
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Old Nov 28th 2018, 8:44 am
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Hi, no problem, glad its been helpful! In my wifes situation yes its possible to work with the temporary residence card. Her card has a section that says she can work, but no idea if all of them have that. Certainly in our scenario explained previously you will have permission to work once you receive the temporary card.

If you can explain your scenario I can take a look if you have any doubts?
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Old Jan 4th 2019, 12:52 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

Quick update, my wife and I went to the UK for a week to visit my family, had no issues at all. Flying out from Dublin we simply showed our passports as an I.D at the departure gate, no other checks were done. When we returned from Bristol we brought a checked bag with us. When checking the bag and getting tickets printed the chap asked to see my wifes temporary residence card and he looked at the related stamp in her passport too. Upon arrival in Dublin there is a passport control, we went through the EU line together with no problem, the chap there asked to see my wifes temporary residence card and asked to confirm our address aswell as checking that we had made an EU1 application. He stamped my wifes passport with a generic arrival stamp too.

So was all straight forward, just needed to have the temporary residence card aswell as passports.

We will take a new copy of my wifes passport showing the updated stamps and send it as part of our EU1 application.
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Old Mar 23rd 2019, 12:46 pm
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Default Re: Moving to ROI with NON-EU/EEA family member, ongoing progress update

So we were supposed to have a decision "due by February 22nd 2019" but we are yet to receive anything. A week after the 22nd we emailed the eu treaty rights division (no contact by telephone as i understand) and had to be a bit pushy to finally get a reason. Without saying it directly they admitted being behind with application decisions and that they strictly work in chronological order. I emailed again a week later pushing for a revised decision date and was told we would definitely hear something before the end of March. Disappointed that we are still waiting and hopefully they stick to their date this time as Im sure the lack of a long term work visa is affecting my wifes employment chances having not been chosen from several interviews.
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