JAJ

They have it. You can apply for it by registration, it seems.

dunroving

My mother's mother was Irish. If I applied for Irish citizenship on this basis, would I then be eligible to apply for the US GC Diversity lottery? Or is this only for Irish-born people?

JAJ

Eligibility for the DV is based on birthplace (normally), not citizenship.

dunroving

Thanks, Jeremy, I was afraid of that. Back to plan A, then (EB-1A).

MandyNi

Ah sure we haven't seen you fer years!

Jez, isn't our wee island mega popular when it comes to trying to get visas around the world! There's always a huge urge, despite what the regs. say to declare ...... If you weren't born in Ireland then yer not Irish!!!!

No worries folks, but if your going to claim it, come and visit BOTH north and south at least once!

Slainte!

dunroving

So if you had a child born in VA, would you tell him/her when she's old enough that she's not Irish?

Cynicism disguised as humour ...

MandyNi

LOL, awhh don't be cynical. because no, I wouldn't tell them they were Irish, I'd tell them they were American with irish genes.

dunroving

I think the pot is calling the kettle black. Your post presumes a lot about me and my motivations for asking my earlier question.

You know nothing about my Irish heritage beyond the little information in my earlier post, nor my underlying motivations for applying for Irish citizenship, nor what other avenues I have pursued in order to live and work in the States. Nor do you know how many times I have visited Ireland (north and south).

So to me your funny little gibe just reads like a cynical nationalistic excuse for humour. If someone posted "Jeez, here's another Brit gal snaring an American husband just so she can liive on America", that would be equally ignorant and unfunny.

The idea that someone isn't Irish (or English, or American) unless they were born on that soil is a pretty narrow-minded viewpoint, especially appearing on a site that is dedicated largely to immigration issues and the legalities of citizenship.

OK, now tell me "It was just a joke, get over it!"

MandyNi

Jez, isn't our wee island mega popular when it comes to trying to get visas around the world! There's always a huge urge, despite what the regs. say to declare ...... If you weren't born in Ireland then yer not Irish!!!! No worries folks, but if your going to claim it, come and visit BOTH north and south at least once!

Wow, well now where the heck did that come from!? If you have taken this as a personal attack on you then I apologise as it wasn't meant for any one person and certainly not at you. I was expressing my view as I believe I am entitled to do, and did so without feeling the need to get nasty or personal.

Did you notice the embarassed smiley in the original post, why would I put that in? well because I was making fun of my own country as it does indeed seem that an irish passport is given by the Irish for even the most tenuous links - kind of .. if it suits us then yeah we're happy to have you! I did say "no worries folks" as an acknowledgement that that element is a non-issue for me. I was trying to express was a genuine desire for people who want to take advantage of their right to an Irish passport to actually visit the place - that does annoy me, a bit like when I get lots of very strong views and comments on irish politics when in the States, and when you ask, they've never been to the place and only know if it what they see on CNN/Fox etc! As you rightly point out I have no idea whether you've been here or not but again, these comments were not directed at you!

You find my view that those not born in the country are not in fact Irish narrow-minded, fine, perhaps it is. Would I suggest stopping individuals who have a legal right under whatever constitution/law claiming what they are entitled too? Absolutely not.

Unfunny .... well the unfunny I can live with because of course we all have varying senses of humour and it can be easy to get crossed wires using just this written medium. Ignorant, cynical, nationalist. Again you base this on what you seemingly viewed as a personal attack, it might have been good to discuss and debate a bit more before you made huge assumptions about me and my motivations for posting what I did.

I wish you well in your journey, I hope it all works out for you.

dunroving

The BNP says things like "If you're not born in Britain, you're not British", and regardless of whether they follow with a smiley face, I think most people wouldn't find that kind of comment from them funny.

I think you and I must simply have a different perspective on immigration and a different sense of humour because I still don't understand what was so funny or what your point was, even after your explanation above.

But I appreciate you trying to explain nonetheless.

MandyNi

Ok not to worry, humour and my point was obviously not well enough articulated for you.

Most people know where BNP are coming from so we understand the inferences of what they would mean by such a statement. You didn't actually ask me anything other than one direct question which I answered in a direct way.

You don't know and haven't sought my views on immigration and you are the one who continues to make HUGE assumptions. To suggest that I am some sort of nationalistic white supremisist in the same league as BNP - your have no idea how far off the mark you are. That is out of order, and highly offensive.

dunroving

By taking offence you illustrate two points made previously, namely (a) as you pointed out, meaning can get lost when put into text-bites on the internet, and (b) as I stated, we seem to be on a completely different wavelength - we seem to get further apart in understanding where each of us is coming from with every subsequent post.

So here's my main point: Many forums on BE involve people asking for help with understanding the legalities of immigration and related topics (citizenship, permanent residence, right to work, visas, etc.). I dare say you have received some very good advice on the US forum from threads asking for similar advice about US residence and/or citizenship. For some reason, in a thread where people were asking for advice on obtaining Irish citizenship you posted a completely unhelpful (and inaccurate) comment that only people born in Ireland are Irish. You really don't seem to see why this would cause someone asking for such advice to take exception - and you think that putting a smiley face in the post explains everything.

My point in drawing your attention to the similarity with nationalist statements made by the BNP was not to say that you are some sort of white supremacist (more than a slight over-interpretation, IMO), but to say "Look, what you said is the kind of statement usually made by people who are anti-immigration" (because up to that point, you just didn't seem to see anything exceptional about saying this).

As you said, you are entitled to your opinion (in this case, on who is allowed to call themselves Irish). Having grown up in a British city that has had a substantial number of immigrants since the 1960s, my opinion is that anyone who is legally entitled to UK citizenship is entitled to say they are British. I also think that anyone who believes they shouldn't describe themselves as British would be being petty and exclusionary. That's just my opinion, but as you say, we're entitled to express our opinions.

By extension, and to keep on-topic with the thread, I'd say if you have citizenship of Ireland then you're Irish!!!

Londonuck

You're British anyway

dunroving

Ouch!

MandyNi

It seems I pushed your button, you pushed mine Having been stared at in the street, tutted at and verbally abused as one half of an interracial relationship, the BNP reference really stung .. anyway that's a whole other thread I think lol.

Ok, in expressing my simplistic opinion about being irish, and the frustration with people who express lots of views and opinions on Ireland (particularly my own fair Northern Ireland) or who say they are irish but have never been here, I accept that there probably wasn't sufficient involvement or information from me previously which might give a more true picture of my thoughts or feeling on the issue.

I actually suspect our views are not that far apart. If what I'd written suggested exclusion, let me just clarify. I am absolutely not against immigration etc. in to or out of our group of islands, or any other for that matter (I'm doing it myself obviously). In fact I wish Ireland was more diverse than it is. I think the learning and exposure to different cultures and mind sets is important (especially here in Ireland). I will defend anyone's right to be here (so long as they're legal obviously), and have welcomed the changing (albeit pretty small at the moment) demographic in the country.

I have many many friends who live in the UK but were born outside the UK. Would I ever suggest they didn't call themselves British - absolutely not, because I fully accept and understand that here is so much more to being Irish/British/American/French than how we look or where we were born.

My view on being born here is as I have said just a simplistic view, however ultimately I respect a person's right to choice and to describe and determine their nationality/citizenship just how they want to.

Hope I've managed to express myself better this time!

Now as for as for Londonuck's point ......... I am so not going to go there. That's a whole political area that I won't touch with a 10ft pole. Caused way too much grief here in NI and I'm just not a political person.

And yes please, I think I took this thread way too far off. Apologies for that.