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Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Old Jul 29th 2019, 12:51 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by Richard8655
Not intending to keep resurrecting this informative thread, but things seem a bit worrisome lately (to me, anyway). With Boris Johnson now appearing willing to crash out of the EU by end of October, the Good Friday agreement guaranteeing citizens rights and benefits in both countries doesn't seem quite as solid. Boris has made noises about commitment to the agreement, but there's much unpredictability with him, in my opinion. The Irish prime minister also appears uncomfortable with the new situation.

With both of us having UK citizenship, we're still planning a retirement move to the ROI. We just hope things don't go downhill from here.
That's not what the Good Friday Agreement guarantees. The Common Travel Area is what allows British citizens to live in Ireland and vice versa. Nothing about a 'No Deal' Brexit is going to change anything in that regard other than with the possibility of non-EU spouses of British citizens exercising their freedom of movement rights as noted above.
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 1:53 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by BritInParis
That's not what the Good Friday Agreement guarantees. The Common Travel Area is what allows British citizens to live in Ireland and vice versa. Nothing about a 'No Deal' Brexit is going to change anything in that regard other than with the possibility of non-EU spouses of British citizens exercising their freedom of movement rights as noted above.
Yes thanks, my confusion, CTA future status is what I meant to refer to. I certainly hope Brexit has no impact, but I'm not so certain given the increasing anti-immigration attitudes and policies in the UK.
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 1:53 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by Richard8655
Not intending to keep resurrecting this informative thread, but things seem a bit worrisome lately (to me, anyway). With Boris Johnson now appearing willing to crash out of the EU by end of October, the Good Friday agreement guaranteeing citizens rights and benefits in both countries doesn't seem quite as solid. Boris has made noises about commitment to the agreement, but there's much unpredictability with him, in my opinion. The Irish prime minister also appears uncomfortable with the new situation.

With both of us having UK citizenship, we're still planning a retirement move to the ROI. We just hope things don't go downhill from here.
Anything can happen at this point. Due to Brexit, IDA already announced over 5000 jobs that have been moved over to Ireland. But if the British economy is really hit hard, how many more Brits will leave? It could then well be that many British will just use Ireland as the Gateway to Europe, so maybe fidobsa was right. It really depends on the restrictions (if any) after No Deal. Scotland will still want independence,so too many holes to fill.
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 2:11 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by Richard8655
Yes thanks, my confusion, CTA future status is what I meant to refer to. I certainly hope Brexit has no impact, but I'm not so certain given the increasing anti-immigration attitudes and policies in the UK.
Without wanting to get into a political argument you’ll find there’s a scant evidence of that outside increasingly unhinged Guardian op-eds. Freedom of movement may be ending but there’ll be a liberalisation of immigration across the board under the current post-Brexit immigration white paper. In any case your ability to live in Ireland is contingent on Irish immigration policy, not British.
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 2:11 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by Moses2013
Anything can happen at this point. Due to Brexit, IDA already announced over 5000 jobs that have been moved over to Ireland. But if the British economy is really hit hard, how many more Brits will leave? It could then well be that many British will just use Ireland as the Gateway to Europe, so maybe fidobsa was right. It really depends on the restrictions (if any) after No Deal. Scotland will still want independence,so too many holes to fill.
Yes exactly, and interesting points. Scotland for sure will clamor for another departure referendum and may be successful this time. The UK economy will take a hit, and perhaps for quite a while. In my view, everything is now in question. What a mess the Tories are causing. It's interesting how the desire for self-importance of a long time past may actually cause increased diminishment on the world stage.
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 2:24 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by BritInParis
Without wanting to get into a political argument you’ll find there’s a scant evidence of that outside increasingly unhinged Guardian op-eds. Freedom of movement may be ending but there’ll be a liberalisation of immigration across the board under the current post-Brexit immigration white paper. In any case your ability to live in Ireland is contingent on Irish immigration policy, not British.
Again, I certainly hope your thoughts on maintaining the existing CTA agreement holds up. But I don't see how there can be a liberalization of immigration when freedom of movement with the EU is ending and was a key factor in driving Brexit. (The Guardian in my opinion is not the unhinged newspaper, but rather the tabloids that seem to be experts in this.)
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 11:16 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by Richard8655
Again, I certainly hope your thoughts on maintaining the existing CTA agreement holds up. But I don't see how there can be a liberalization of immigration when freedom of movement with the EU is ending and was a key factor in driving Brexit. (The Guardian in my opinion is not the unhinged newspaper, but rather the tabloids that seem to be experts in this.)
As mentioned, it’s all in the immigration white paper.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...gration-system

Once upon a time that might have been true, but Brexit, Trump and now Boris has driven The Guardian quite mad. That and the ever increasing need for click bait content to keep the ad revenue coming in the face of ever decreasing circulation.

Last edited by BritInParis; Jul 29th 2019 at 11:20 am.
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Old Jul 29th 2019, 12:30 pm
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by BritInParis
As mentioned, it’s all in the immigration white paper.

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...gration-system

Once upon a time that might have been true, but Brexit, Trump and now Boris has driven The Guardian quite mad. That and the ever increasing need for click bait content to keep the ad revenue coming in the face of ever decreasing circulation.
Ok, thanks for the very informative link. It does help clarify where we are today in policy. Although freedom of EU movement and employment is missing (obviously) and that's definitely not liberalization of what was.

RE: Guardian. Actually Trump has driven most of us on this side of the water quite mad already. Boris, to many of us here, looks like a Brit version of Trump - hair, behavior, attitude, and all! The Guardian is actually quite sane, IMO, and has exposed many of the Brexit myths that Boris & Co. have successfully perpetuated when this all started. But not to do political sparring on this, as your knowledge with these ongoing polices is very helpful.

Last edited by Richard8655; Jul 29th 2019 at 12:57 pm.
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Old Jan 23rd 2020, 6:11 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by BritInParis
As it currently stands, yes. However if the UK ends up in a ‘no deal’ scenario then the SS route could end as early as March 2019.
Hi, I am looking to double check what was previously said on this subject as I have some doubts. I have been putting together an application for the EEA Family Permit in order to follow the Surinder Singh route to moving back to the UK with my wife, She has the "Stamp 4 EU Fam" card and we have been living in Ireland since August 2018, so almost 18 months. I am not too concerned about the process and I believe we should tick all the boxes for the family permit.

What I would like to clarify, is that after speaking with an immigration advisor at the end of last year, I have been under the impression that the deadline for the family permit application to follow the surinder singh route would be brexit day, which at this moment is January 31st 2020. I only today remembered asking the above question and that it would be open until the end of the transition period (unless we have no deal).

Im wondering if something has changed since I asked the question or if I am mixing up my questions and answers somewhere (did cover a lot of subjects in my hour long chat with the advisor) ?

Also, I don't know if the policy mentioned in this link is related in any way to the dates? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...ments-47816000

We would like to stay in Ireland a little longer beyond the end of July as we are quite settled here, but obviously don't want to miss out on the SS route as we want to live in England long term.

Thanks,

Lee


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Old Jan 23rd 2020, 9:49 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by lee8889
Hi, I am looking to double check what was previously said on this subject as I have some doubts. I have been putting together an application for the EEA Family Permit in order to follow the Surinder Singh route to moving back to the UK with my wife, She has the "Stamp 4 EU Fam" card and we have been living in Ireland since August 2018, so almost 18 months. I am not too concerned about the process and I believe we should tick all the boxes for the family permit.

What I would like to clarify, is that after speaking with an immigration advisor at the end of last year, I have been under the impression that the deadline for the family permit application to follow the surinder singh route would be brexit day, which at this moment is January 31st 2020. I only today remembered asking the above question and that it would be open until the end of the transition period (unless we have no deal).

Im wondering if something has changed since I asked the question or if I am mixing up my questions and answers somewhere (did cover a lot of subjects in my hour long chat with the advisor) ?

Also, I don't know if the policy mentioned in this link is related in any way to the dates? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics...ments-47816000

We would like to stay in Ireland a little longer beyond the end of July as we are quite settled here, but obviously don't want to miss out on the SS route as we want to live in England long term.

Thanks,

Lee
HMG has confirmed that you’ll have until 29 March 2022 to return to the UK with your spouse if you are a British citizen exercising your Treaty rights in another EU country, i.e. the Surinder Singh route.

https://assets.publishing.service.go...Accessible.pdf
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Old Jan 25th 2020, 10:48 pm
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Thank you BritInParis, much appreciated. Im assuming this is one of those situations where this is a policy that is not written in to law but would be very unlikely that the government would change their minds on this?
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Old Jan 25th 2020, 11:25 pm
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Originally Posted by lee8889
Thank you BritInParis, much appreciated. Im assuming this is one of those situations where this is a policy that is not written in to law but would be very unlikely that the government would change their minds on this?
The Immigration Rules have been updated to implement this new policy. The government can always change its mind, even if it was primary legislation, but, yes, it’s unlikely to be changed, particularly before the overhaul of the immigration system comes into force on 1 January 2021.
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Old Jan 30th 2020, 10:28 am
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Iv spoken with an immigration advisor over the last couple of days and asked if they had any information on the cut off date for Surinder Singh applications. They were under the impression that the cut off day was 30th June 2021 as the below link to the family permit page shows this date and has nothing under the Surinder Singh sub heading to say any different to that. (Although its not clear if they mean the family permit or the settlement scheme which would be the 2nd step when in the UK?).

https://www.gov.uk/family-permit

I then managed to find the link below which says the final date would be 31st March 2022, the same as the policy paper I posted previously, although again I wouldn't say its clear.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/living-i...tay-up-to-date

Due to the confusion, they decided to call the "EU Settlement Scheme Resolution Centre" (0300 123 7379). The person on the phone really didn't understand what Surinder Singh was and it went back and forth for 20 minutes and we gained no answers at all as they clearly had no idea what we were asking and didn't seem capable to check the web links we gave. So the advisor called a different number today "EU Settlement Resolution Centre" (0300 790 0566) and spoke with someone who fully understood Surinder Singh. They said that their office was unaware of the March 2022 date and they insisted that my wife and I should be in the UK before the 31st of December 2020. They double checked with a manager to confirm this.

So to conclude, it seems that nobody seems to know a definite date for the cut off of the family permit application and it is difficult to trust the policy paper I previously posted, unless we are missing some details that we are unaware of?

Although My wife and I have had an idea to move to Northern Ireland, but continue in the jobs we are enjoying here in ROI whilst obtainng the UK residence card which seems to be viable. If anyones had experience with that we would love to hear how it worked out and any details to consider, mostly thinking about how my wifes permission to work in ROI would continue, perhaps we can have dual residence?
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Old Jan 30th 2020, 2:09 pm
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

I’m not surprised the staff aren’t aware of the changes. Strictly speaking they are correct - Surinder Singh will end on 31 December 2020 as the transition period will have ended and since Surinder Singh was an ECJ ruling, it will no longer apply to the UK. The government has, however, effectively replicated the Surinder Singh route in the UK Immigration Rules for a time limited period.

It’s not a policy paper; it’s an explanatory memorandum for the changes made to the Immigration Rules in September. You can read them for yourself.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigrat...es-appendix-eu

Go to the definition of ‘family member of a qualifying British citizen’ in Annex 1 and you’ll see the 29 March 2022 cutoff date.
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Old Feb 12th 2020, 9:16 pm
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Default Re: Brits in Ireland post Brexit

Hi BritInParis, apologies, I should have replied here sooner. I have been doing more digging on this subject as I have been unable to get anyone to confirm the 29th March 2022 date. I called the previously mentioned helpline myself yesterday and they said to ignore everything other than the main Settlement Scheme page on the Gov website and that the date for cut off is 30th June 2021.

I have also just received an email response from the EUSS department at Advice NI:

https://www.adviceni.net/eu-settlement-scheme

They have said to me the following :

"Hi Lee,

Because we are in the so called implementation period the UK is negotiating with the EU. That is why any advice is based on what has currently been confirmed.

The EUSS scheme at the moment will apply until the end of this year i.e. end of December 2020.

The date of 2022 is for anyone who is already living in the UK and has a close family member who is not in the UK but is looking to join the family member.

From what we know the route you're planning to take would be closed for application at 23:00GMT on 31st December 2020."

This confirms how i had started to view the 2022 date going over all of the various pages, the march 2022 date is applicable if the UK citizen is already in the UK before the end of this year. This is also in line with what the previous advisor on the helpline was trying to say I believe.

We have decided that we are very likely going to move to the North later this year as it makes sense for us, so we are less concerned about the cut off date for our own situation, hence why we were asking on the other thread about what the details would be for cross border work for my wife. But clearly there are still no certainties in my opinion, unless im missing something that BritInParis or anyone else can see or explain?
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