Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
Jul 3rd 2003, 7:03 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
Owain wrote:
> It seems to me the rail system has got better since privatisation. There are
> some co-ordination problems arising because it's no no longer one
> organisation, and various bits go bankrupt or get renationalised, but I can
> remember travelling on trains in the late 1980s and they were old, filthy,
> unreliable. I always had to phone long-distance to check train connections
> because I couldn't rely on the information given by the local station, and
> ticketing was so antiquated they were still writing them by hand.
>
> Now the trains are modern, clean, the stations are cleaned and painted with
> nicer shops and coffee bars, the seat reservation system works and when you
> book long-distance trains at the local station you get a nice printout
> listing everything, and the staff generally understand they have to provide
> a customer service in a commercial industry. Some of the improvements are
> down to progress and technology anyway, of course, but there wasn't a lot of
> evidence of that pre-privatisation.
Well, I agree with parts of this, but in fact, reliability is much
poorer now than it was in the 1980s, and perhaps most dispiritingly, the
journey times have increased, probably to give more of a semblance of
being "on time." In addition, average fares have increased well above
inflation, in some cases almost staggeringly so. Yes, there are
generally newer trains- however they get old fast because maintenance is
not always so good. The fragmentisation of the track maintenance has
resulted in a huge increase in costs- a very important lesson to any
other country considering this folly. The government, in an odd way,
wins with this arrangement. Privatisation allowed the conservatives to
wash their hand of direct responsibility- the main reason IMO why the
current labour government will not renationalise it- whatever they might
have said in opposition.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> It seems to me the rail system has got better since privatisation. There are
> some co-ordination problems arising because it's no no longer one
> organisation, and various bits go bankrupt or get renationalised, but I can
> remember travelling on trains in the late 1980s and they were old, filthy,
> unreliable. I always had to phone long-distance to check train connections
> because I couldn't rely on the information given by the local station, and
> ticketing was so antiquated they were still writing them by hand.
>
> Now the trains are modern, clean, the stations are cleaned and painted with
> nicer shops and coffee bars, the seat reservation system works and when you
> book long-distance trains at the local station you get a nice printout
> listing everything, and the staff generally understand they have to provide
> a customer service in a commercial industry. Some of the improvements are
> down to progress and technology anyway, of course, but there wasn't a lot of
> evidence of that pre-privatisation.
Well, I agree with parts of this, but in fact, reliability is much
poorer now than it was in the 1980s, and perhaps most dispiritingly, the
journey times have increased, probably to give more of a semblance of
being "on time." In addition, average fares have increased well above
inflation, in some cases almost staggeringly so. Yes, there are
generally newer trains- however they get old fast because maintenance is
not always so good. The fragmentisation of the track maintenance has
resulted in a huge increase in costs- a very important lesson to any
other country considering this folly. The government, in an odd way,
wins with this arrangement. Privatisation allowed the conservatives to
wash their hand of direct responsibility- the main reason IMO why the
current labour government will not renationalise it- whatever they might
have said in opposition.
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Jul 3rd 2003, 7:27 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
In article , Chris Jones
writes
>France for instance has the TGV train service, and far more miles of
>motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
>an integrated long-term strategy, which the government here doesn't see as a
>vote-winner, since they'll be voted out by the time any results are
>apparent.
As far as motorway is concerned, France is much bigger than the UK and
if we were to have as much motorway per person as they, far too much
countryside would be ruined.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>France for instance has the TGV train service, and far more miles of
>motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
>an integrated long-term strategy, which the government here doesn't see as a
>vote-winner, since they'll be voted out by the time any results are
>apparent.
As far as motorway is concerned, France is much bigger than the UK and
if we were to have as much motorway per person as they, far too much
countryside would be ruined.
--
Marie Lewis
Jul 3rd 2003, 9:49 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0100, "Chris Jones"
> wrote:
>
> >far more miles of
> >motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
> >an integrated long-term strategy,
>
> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
How is Holland doing?
Björn
> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0100, "Chris Jones"
> wrote:
>
> >far more miles of
> >motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
> >an integrated long-term strategy,
>
> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
How is Holland doing?
Björn
Jul 3rd 2003, 11:07 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0100, "Chris Jones"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >far more miles of
>> >motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
>> >an integrated long-term strategy,
>>
>> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
>How is Holland doing?
On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
size of the country, not the population.
On railways, everywhere I've ridden one has been better than the UK,
but then I don't actually see much wrong with the UK ones, it's just
expensive, the serious delays are rare enough IMO.
Jim.
>[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
>> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0100, "Chris Jones"
>> wrote:
>>
>> >far more miles of
>> >motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
>> >an integrated long-term strategy,
>>
>> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
>How is Holland doing?
On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
size of the country, not the population.
On railways, everywhere I've ridden one has been better than the UK,
but then I don't actually see much wrong with the UK ones, it's just
expensive, the serious delays are rare enough IMO.
Jim.
Jul 3rd 2003, 11:42 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
Why not try Ryanair? they fly from Stansted to Glasgow Pickwick.
www.ryanair.com
Very cheap
You can also get very cheap train fares on Virgin. they have value fares
which you can book if you book in advance and travel off peak.
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/
"Iain" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Check Easyjet prices on the net. Don't forget the cost of connections and
> taxes.
> the 400 miles takes about 8 hours and is BORING until you reach the
Northern
> bit.
> "alyson" escribió en el mensaje
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Brian Huether" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I just decided that we will drive. We will spend a night in York on
the
> > way,
> > > and then a night in Durham on the way back. That will cut into our
> > Scotland
> > > tour, but hey - there are always tradeoffs, and I don't think seeing
the
> > > region between London and Edinburgh is a bad tradeoff!
> > >
> > > As far as the first class train preference. That came about just
because
> I
> > > want to have a nice comfortable ride. But for all I know the Standard
> > Class
> > > is fine. In any case, it doesn't matter anymore because we are
driving.
> > >
> > > -brian
> > >
> > >
> > I have recently returned to London after a short break in Edinburgh.
The
> > rest of our party went by air but as my partner and myself were in
> > Northumberland the week before, we took the car. We decided against
> > travelling on the motorway as this meant practically crossing the
country
> > over to Carlisle and then a boring long motorway route.
> > Instead we took the A68 from Edinburgh which took a wonderful route
> through
> > beautiful scenery; crossing the border at Carter Bar and then through
part
> > of the Northumberland National Park near Otterburn.
> > As we'd had problems on the way up at the A1 around Newcastle (it can
get
> > very congested there), instead of taking the A69 to meet up with the A1,
> we
> > continued on the A68 until just beyond Durham where we eventually met up
> > with the A1 and stayed on that until we got to London.
> >
> > I recommend stopping in Newark for a meal stop; we ended up in a lovely
> pub
> > situated in a boat on the river. We weren't expecting much of the meal
as
> > it was suspiciously cheap; but it turned out to be really nice
home-cooked
> > food - it made for a pleasant end to our holiday.
> >
> > I would also recommend, if you had the time, seeing some of
Northumberland
> > on your travels - it is my favourite part of England, really beautiful
and
> > peaceful but I guess you're going to have enough to do as it is!
> >
> > We did the whole journey in 1 day, which took about 8 hours and 2 long
> stops
> > (one at a reservoir near the Northumberland border and one in Newark,
> > Notts.) making it about 12 hours in total.
> > It is a long journey, so better to break it up over 2 days if possible
> but
> > I still recommend it as a interesting route to get there.
> >
> > Incidently, we still made it back to London before the rest of our group
> as
> > Easyjet suffered severe delays on their return flight and they ended up
> > stranded in Gatwick airport in the early hours of the morning, with no
> sign
> > of the promised courtesy coach (as all the trains had long gone) nor any
> > staff to help them. In retrospect, I think we made the right choice by
> > driving!
> >
> > --
> > Sent by Aly
> > www.blacksheepglass.co.uk
> > http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/vampyresheep/.
> >
> >
> >
www.ryanair.com
Very cheap
You can also get very cheap train fares on Virgin. they have value fares
which you can book if you book in advance and travel off peak.
http://www.virgintrains.co.uk/
"Iain" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Check Easyjet prices on the net. Don't forget the cost of connections and
> taxes.
> the 400 miles takes about 8 hours and is BORING until you reach the
Northern
> bit.
> "alyson" escribió en el mensaje
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "Brian Huether" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I just decided that we will drive. We will spend a night in York on
the
> > way,
> > > and then a night in Durham on the way back. That will cut into our
> > Scotland
> > > tour, but hey - there are always tradeoffs, and I don't think seeing
the
> > > region between London and Edinburgh is a bad tradeoff!
> > >
> > > As far as the first class train preference. That came about just
because
> I
> > > want to have a nice comfortable ride. But for all I know the Standard
> > Class
> > > is fine. In any case, it doesn't matter anymore because we are
driving.
> > >
> > > -brian
> > >
> > >
> > I have recently returned to London after a short break in Edinburgh.
The
> > rest of our party went by air but as my partner and myself were in
> > Northumberland the week before, we took the car. We decided against
> > travelling on the motorway as this meant practically crossing the
country
> > over to Carlisle and then a boring long motorway route.
> > Instead we took the A68 from Edinburgh which took a wonderful route
> through
> > beautiful scenery; crossing the border at Carter Bar and then through
part
> > of the Northumberland National Park near Otterburn.
> > As we'd had problems on the way up at the A1 around Newcastle (it can
get
> > very congested there), instead of taking the A69 to meet up with the A1,
> we
> > continued on the A68 until just beyond Durham where we eventually met up
> > with the A1 and stayed on that until we got to London.
> >
> > I recommend stopping in Newark for a meal stop; we ended up in a lovely
> pub
> > situated in a boat on the river. We weren't expecting much of the meal
as
> > it was suspiciously cheap; but it turned out to be really nice
home-cooked
> > food - it made for a pleasant end to our holiday.
> >
> > I would also recommend, if you had the time, seeing some of
Northumberland
> > on your travels - it is my favourite part of England, really beautiful
and
> > peaceful but I guess you're going to have enough to do as it is!
> >
> > We did the whole journey in 1 day, which took about 8 hours and 2 long
> stops
> > (one at a reservoir near the Northumberland border and one in Newark,
> > Notts.) making it about 12 hours in total.
> > It is a long journey, so better to break it up over 2 days if possible
> but
> > I still recommend it as a interesting route to get there.
> >
> > Incidently, we still made it back to London before the rest of our group
> as
> > Easyjet suffered severe delays on their return flight and they ended up
> > stranded in Gatwick airport in the early hours of the morning, with no
> sign
> > of the promised courtesy coach (as all the trains had long gone) nor any
> > staff to help them. In retrospect, I think we made the right choice by
> > driving!
> >
> > --
> > Sent by Aly
> > www.blacksheepglass.co.uk
> > http://members.ebay.co.uk/aboutme/vampyresheep/.
> >
> >
> >
Jul 4th 2003, 12:44 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
Following up to Chris Jones
>France for instance has the TGV train service, and far more miles of
>motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
>an integrated long-term strategy, which the government here doesn't see as a
>vote-winner, since they'll be voted out by the time any results are
>apparent.
Its also the amount of space in France, UK is more crowded and new
roads/railways mean destroying things.
I think its not so much the long term planning aspect (although we
have just come through a long period of government where planning was
almost a dirty word), more that the two parties have opposite
policies.
Margeret Thatcher took pride in never using a train, Labour feel more
roads just generate traffic. Its taken forever to get the Eurostar
route agreed. I dont think we have a consensus at all on the way
forward.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale,landscape photos,freeware,London & the Thames path etc. "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
>France for instance has the TGV train service, and far more miles of
>motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
>an integrated long-term strategy, which the government here doesn't see as a
>vote-winner, since they'll be voted out by the time any results are
>apparent.
Its also the amount of space in France, UK is more crowded and new
roads/railways mean destroying things.
I think its not so much the long term planning aspect (although we
have just come through a long period of government where planning was
almost a dirty word), more that the two parties have opposite
policies.
Margeret Thatcher took pride in never using a train, Labour feel more
roads just generate traffic. Its taken forever to get the Eurostar
route agreed. I dont think we have a consensus at all on the way
forward.
--
Mike Reid
"Art is the lie that reveals the truth" P.Picasso
Wasdale,landscape photos,freeware,London & the Thames path etc. "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
Spain, food and walking "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" (see web for email)
Jul 4th 2003, 1:28 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
"ramraideruk" wrote
| Why not try Ryanair? they fly from Stansted to Glasgow Pickwick.
| www.ryanair.com
Would that be Prestwick? It isn't really in Glasgow and certainly isn't in
Edinburgh.
Owain
| Why not try Ryanair? they fly from Stansted to Glasgow Pickwick.
| www.ryanair.com
Would that be Prestwick? It isn't really in Glasgow and certainly isn't in
Edinburgh.
Owain
Jul 4th 2003, 5:35 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
Philip George wrote:
> It's not actually that much worse.
It _is_ worse though. The performance of trains now is not as reliable
as it was a decade before. And, as you may very well know, the current
prediction is that it will take about 7 years just to get to the 2000
(pre-Hatfield) performance, and _that_ was worse than 1993...
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
> It's not actually that much worse.
It _is_ worse though. The performance of trains now is not as reliable
as it was a decade before. And, as you may very well know, the current
prediction is that it will take about 7 years just to get to the 2000
(pre-Hatfield) performance, and _that_ was worse than 1993...
David
--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.co.uk
davidhorne (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
Jul 5th 2003, 2:15 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0100, "Chris Jones"
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >far more miles of
> >> >motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
> >> >an integrated long-term strategy,
> >>
> >> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
> >
> >How is Holland doing?
>
> On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
> it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
> since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
> size of the country, not the population.
So Russia needs more miles of motorway per person than any other
country, because of all the people who comnute from Moscow to
Vladivostok?
Bjorn
> On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> >> On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 00:50:27 +0100, "Chris Jones"
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >far more miles of
> >> >motorway per person than the UK does. This is all down to transport needing
> >> >an integrated long-term strategy,
> >>
> >> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
> >
> >How is Holland doing?
>
> On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
> it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
> since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
> size of the country, not the population.
So Russia needs more miles of motorway per person than any other
country, because of all the people who comnute from Moscow to
Vladivostok?
Bjorn
Jul 5th 2003, 2:49 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
On 5 Jul 2003 07:15:15 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
>> On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>> >> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
>> >
>> >How is Holland doing?
>>
>> On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
>> it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
>> since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
>> size of the country, not the population.
>So Russia needs more miles of motorway per person than any other
>country, because of all the people who comnute from Moscow to
>Vladivostok?
Your being overly simplistic, but France requires more motorways per
person than the UK, the populations are similar, but the distances
between the major conurbations are larger.
Jim.
>[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
>> On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>> >> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
>> >
>> >How is Holland doing?
>>
>> On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
>> it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
>> since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
>> size of the country, not the population.
>So Russia needs more miles of motorway per person than any other
>country, because of all the people who comnute from Moscow to
>Vladivostok?
Your being overly simplistic, but France requires more motorways per
person than the UK, the populations are similar, but the distances
between the major conurbations are larger.
Jim.
Jul 5th 2003, 7:05 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> On 5 Jul 2003 07:15:15 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> >> On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
> >> >> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
> >> >
> >> >How is Holland doing?
> >>
> >> On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
> >> it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
> >> since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
> >> size of the country, not the population.
> >
> >So Russia needs more miles of motorway per person than any other
> >country, because of all the people who comnute from Moscow to
> >Vladivostok?
>
> Your being overly simplistic,
Moi?
> but France requires more motorways per
> person than the UK, the populations are similar, but the distances
> between the major conurbations are larger.
That's not the same as size of country, and does it anyhow follow with
necessity that the average frenchman needs to travel more miles per
time unit than the average briton?
Another factor, by the way, is that France gets some through traffic
going from, say Britain to Germany or from Italy to Spain. By
comparison, Britain must get very little through traffic.
Bjorn
> On 5 Jul 2003 07:15:15 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Jim Ley) wrote in message news:...
> >> On 4 Jul 2003 02:49:34 -0700, [email protected] (Bjorn Olsson) wrote:
> >> >> Or maybe something to do with it being a lot larger country...
> >> >
> >> >How is Holland doing?
> >>
> >> On miles of motorway per person, I have no idea, I just don't think
> >> it's a useful indicator on the investment in transport infrastructure,
> >> since obviously the length of motorways required will depend on the
> >> size of the country, not the population.
> >
> >So Russia needs more miles of motorway per person than any other
> >country, because of all the people who comnute from Moscow to
> >Vladivostok?
>
> Your being overly simplistic,
Moi?
> but France requires more motorways per
> person than the UK, the populations are similar, but the distances
> between the major conurbations are larger.
That's not the same as size of country, and does it anyhow follow with
necessity that the average frenchman needs to travel more miles per
time unit than the average briton?
Another factor, by the way, is that France gets some through traffic
going from, say Britain to Germany or from Italy to Spain. By
comparison, Britain must get very little through traffic.
Bjorn
Jul 5th 2003, 8:55 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
In article , Bjorn
Olsson writes
>Another factor, by the way, is that France gets some through traffic
>going from, say Britain to Germany or from Italy to Spain. By
>comparison, Britain must get very little through traffic.
France gets a great deal of through traffic.
--
Marie Lewis
Olsson writes
>Another factor, by the way, is that France gets some through traffic
>going from, say Britain to Germany or from Italy to Spain. By
>comparison, Britain must get very little through traffic.
France gets a great deal of through traffic.
--
Marie Lewis
Jul 5th 2003, 9:19 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
"alyson" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I have recently returned to London after a short break in Edinburgh. The
> rest of our party went by air but as my partner and myself were in
> Northumberland the week before, we took the car. We decided against
> travelling on the motorway as this meant practically crossing the country
> over to Carlisle and then a boring long motorway route.
> Instead we took the A68 from Edinburgh which took a wonderful route
through
> beautiful scenery; crossing the border at Carter Bar and then through part
> of the Northumberland National Park near Otterburn.
> As we'd had problems on the way up at the A1 around Newcastle (it can get
> very congested there), instead of taking the A69 to meet up with the A1,
we
> continued on the A68 until just beyond Durham where we eventually met up
> with the A1 and stayed on that until we got to London.
...
> I would also recommend, if you had the time, seeing some of Northumberland
> on your travels - it is my favourite part of England, really beautiful and
> peaceful but I guess you're going to have enough to do as it is!
PLEASE - no more recommendations for beautiful Northumberland - some of us
who
know, love and live in it have no wish to have it spoilt by hordes of
tourists. Part of its attraction is the lack of people - long may it last.
Envo
news:[email protected]...
> I have recently returned to London after a short break in Edinburgh. The
> rest of our party went by air but as my partner and myself were in
> Northumberland the week before, we took the car. We decided against
> travelling on the motorway as this meant practically crossing the country
> over to Carlisle and then a boring long motorway route.
> Instead we took the A68 from Edinburgh which took a wonderful route
through
> beautiful scenery; crossing the border at Carter Bar and then through part
> of the Northumberland National Park near Otterburn.
> As we'd had problems on the way up at the A1 around Newcastle (it can get
> very congested there), instead of taking the A69 to meet up with the A1,
we
> continued on the A68 until just beyond Durham where we eventually met up
> with the A1 and stayed on that until we got to London.
...
> I would also recommend, if you had the time, seeing some of Northumberland
> on your travels - it is my favourite part of England, really beautiful and
> peaceful but I guess you're going to have enough to do as it is!
PLEASE - no more recommendations for beautiful Northumberland - some of us
who
know, love and live in it have no wish to have it spoilt by hordes of
tourists. Part of its attraction is the lack of people - long may it last.
Envo
Jul 5th 2003, 8:57 pm
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
In article , Envo
writes
>PLEASE - no more recommendations for beautiful Northumberland - some of us
>who
>know, love and live in it have no wish to have it spoilt by hordes of
>tourists. Part of its attraction is the lack of people - long may it last.
Oh, and I feel just the same about the area I live in, whose name I
shall not mention. Just a clue: Tolkien based "Middle Earth" on it.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>PLEASE - no more recommendations for beautiful Northumberland - some of us
>who
>know, love and live in it have no wish to have it spoilt by hordes of
>tourists. Part of its attraction is the lack of people - long may it last.
Oh, and I feel just the same about the area I live in, whose name I
shall not mention. Just a clue: Tolkien based "Middle Earth" on it.
--
Marie Lewis
Jul 5th 2003, 11:38 pm
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why is London-Edinburgh travel so expensive??
In article , [email protected]
(Marie Lewis) wrote:
> In article , Envo
> writes
> >PLEASE - no more recommendations for beautiful Northumberland - some
> of us
> >who
> >know, love and live in it have no wish to have it spoilt by hordes of
> >tourists. Part of its attraction is the lack of people - long may it
> last.
>
> Oh, and I feel just the same about the area I live in, whose name I
> shall not mention. Just a clue: Tolkien based "Middle Earth" on it.
Which bits did he base on your area (which I shan't mention either!), do
you know? I was always under the impression that the Shire, at least, was
based on the rural West Midlands -- Warwickshire, Worcestershire and so on
-- where Tolkien grew up.
(Marie Lewis) wrote:
> In article , Envo
> writes
> >PLEASE - no more recommendations for beautiful Northumberland - some
> of us
> >who
> >know, love and live in it have no wish to have it spoilt by hordes of
> >tourists. Part of its attraction is the lack of people - long may it
> last.
>
> Oh, and I feel just the same about the area I live in, whose name I
> shall not mention. Just a clue: Tolkien based "Middle Earth" on it.
Which bits did he base on your area (which I shan't mention either!), do
you know? I was always under the impression that the Shire, at least, was
based on the rural West Midlands -- Warwickshire, Worcestershire and so on
-- where Tolkien grew up.
