Blib

    > I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
    > caravan.
    > I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are), and
    > my family was so boring I always secretly wished
    > I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and
Georgia,
    > so this wasn't very likely to happen.

The nearest you will get, and with a bigoted answer to your question is the
theiving Gypo bastards who own fairgrounds.. in the UK anyway

Thomas

Howard Ino

e-head wrote:

    > The Gypsy/Roma peoples of Europe have been slowly abandoning the traditional
    > lifestyle, and have been absorbed more and more
    > into the local cultures from what I understand.
    > I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
    > caravan.
    > I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are), and
    > my family was so boring I always secretly wished
    > I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and Georgia,
    > so this wasn't very likely to happen.
    > %^)
    > We do have so called Irish Travellers here in the states, or what I always
    > knew as "tinkerers", till it was decided that term was derogatory.
    > (who decides these things anyways ?).
    > Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern europe
    > probably ?
    > Somewhere in the vicinity of Romania, Hungary, or Bulgaria I'm thinking ?
    > Also, just out of curiosity, does the Gypsy language have a multitude of
    > sub-languages and dialects ?
    > Or can a gypsy from England, say, converse with a Gypsy from Slovakia ?
    > cheers,
    > e

Genuine gypsies are getting hard to find these days, especially in UK. Nowadays
all you'll find are the bums that go from place to place leaving filth, damage
and burgled houses in their wake.
You may find some real gypsies in Europe, but most have given up their
traditional ways and settled in houses.
As for language - the genuine ones probably could converse in a Romany language
to a degree.

H
--
24 hours in a day ... 24 beers in a case ... coincidence?

The views and expressions contained in this message do not necessarily coincide
with those of my employer.

E-Head

The Gypsy/Roma peoples of Europe have been slowly abandoning the traditional
lifestyle, and have been absorbed more and more
into the local cultures from what I understand.

I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
caravan.
I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are), and
my family was so boring I always secretly wished
I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and Georgia,
so this wasn't very likely to happen.
%^)

We do have so called Irish Travellers here in the states, or what I always
knew as "tinkerers", till it was decided that term was derogatory.
(who decides these things anyways ?).

Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern europe
probably ?
Somewhere in the vicinity of Romania, Hungary, or Bulgaria I'm thinking ?

Also, just out of curiosity, does the Gypsy language have a multitude of
sub-languages and dialects ?
Or can a gypsy from England, say, converse with a Gypsy from Slovakia ?

cheers,
e

E-Head

"blib" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
    > > caravan.
    > > I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are),
and
    > > my family was so boring I always secretly wished
    > > I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and
    > Georgia,
    > > so this wasn't very likely to happen.
    > The nearest you will get, and with a bigoted answer to your question is
the
    > theiving Gypo bastards who own fairgrounds.. in the UK anyway

Isn't that funny.
The people who run fairgrounds, carnivals, and circuses here in the states
have a reputation for being slightly colorful as well.
"Carnies" is what they are called here.
As well as offering refuge to a few fugitives, these travelling carnivals
seem to attract loosers, rednecks, drop-outs, miscreants,
and I'm sure a poet or two ... %^)

I was doing a little reading, and aparently plenty of gypsies came over to
the new world (many as indentured servants, and a few were
just "dropped off" by the Portugese and English, who didn't want to deal
with them), but apparently they had trouble
maintaining there distinct cultural identity.

Another interesting thing .... apparently the English have there own unique
brand of Gypsy, called the English Roma, or Romanichals.
And there are indeed German Gypsies, also known as the Chicanere. I think
these German Gypsies may also be known as the Black Dutch,
which I would find incredibly interesting because my mother always told me I
was 1/8 Black Dutch !
So I may be a Gypsy after all god damn it ! (pardon my french).

Anyway, I babble ..... I sure would love to have tea with some Gypsies in
Romania.
Perhaps my job is just too boring.
%^)

e-head

    > Thomas

Keith Willshaw

"e-head" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "blib" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > > I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
    > > > caravan.
    > > > I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are),
    > and
    > > > my family was so boring I always secretly wished
    > > > I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and
    > > Georgia,
    > > > so this wasn't very likely to happen.
    > >
    > > The nearest you will get, and with a bigoted answer to your question is
    > the
    > > theiving Gypo bastards who own fairgrounds.. in the UK anyway
    > Isn't that funny.
    > The people who run fairgrounds, carnivals, and circuses here in the states
    > have a reputation for being slightly colorful as well.
    > "Carnies" is what they are called here.
    > As well as offering refuge to a few fugitives, these travelling carnivals
    > seem to attract loosers, rednecks, drop-outs, miscreants,
    > and I'm sure a poet or two ... %^)
    > I was doing a little reading, and aparently plenty of gypsies came over to
    > the new world (many as indentured servants, and a few were
    > just "dropped off" by the Portugese and English, who didn't want to deal
    > with them), but apparently they had trouble
    > maintaining there distinct cultural identity.
    > Another interesting thing .... apparently the English have there own
unique
    > brand of Gypsy, called the English Roma, or Romanichals.
    > And there are indeed German Gypsies, also known as the Chicanere. I think
    > these German Gypsies may also be known as the Black Dutch,
    > which I would find incredibly interesting because my mother always told me
I
    > was 1/8 Black Dutch !
    > So I may be a Gypsy after all god damn it ! (pardon my french).
    > Anyway, I babble ..... I sure would love to have tea with some Gypsies in
    > Romania.
    > Perhaps my job is just too boring.
    > %^)

You'll be lucky

The Roma in continental Europe had a BAD time in
the 20th century. First Herr Hitler put them on his shit
list along with the Jews and then the communists disapproved
of their nomadic life style. As a result they tend to keep a low
profile these days.

Its all too easy to confuse genuine Romany with itinerant
tinkers and travellers but the two arent synonymous

The real romany I have met lived in amazingly beautiful
trailers and kept their camps spotlessly tidy.

One of the best venues to see a Romany gathering is the
Appleby horse fair held in early June at Appleby in Westmoreland
in Britain.

http://sca.lib.liv.ac.uk/collections/gypsy/appleby.htm

Keith

Kamm2macd

There is a festival in the Carmague (sp?? sorry in France, a gathering of
the Roma in honor of their patron saint, Black Sarah.... of course, not
sanctified by the bigoted church, but their saint nonetheless. Apparently is a
huge gathering of Roma from all over.

Webpecker

On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:09:25 GMT, "e-head" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern europe
    >probably ?

the most significant gipsy gathering's in the Camargue national park,
South of France, in August I believe...

PS: In Pescara, Abruzzo, Italy (where I live) they're called "pigri"
(Italian for "lazies") because they've been assigned municipal housing
and aren't ro(a)ming anymore (a former city major was married with a
gipsy)...

Derek F

"e-head" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > The Gypsy/Roma peoples of Europe have been slowly abandoning the
traditional
    > lifestyle, and have been absorbed more and more
    > into the local cultures from what I understand.
    > I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
    > caravan.
    > I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are), and
    > my family was so boring I always secretly wished
    > I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and
Georgia,
    > so this wasn't very likely to happen.
    > %^)
    > We do have so called Irish Travellers here in the states, or what I always
    > knew as "tinkerers", till it was decided that term was derogatory.
    > (who decides these things anyways ?).
    > Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern
europe
    > probably ?
    > Somewhere in the vicinity of Romania, Hungary, or Bulgaria I'm thinking ?
    > Also, just out of curiosity, does the Gypsy language have a multitude of
    > sub-languages and dialects ?
    > Or can a gypsy from England, say, converse with a Gypsy from Slovakia ?
    > cheers,
    > e
Come to Appleby in Westmoreland in England for a week in early June when the
Appleby horse fair is on. We went to it this year and it is a great
spectacle with many of the travellers still living in traditional caravans.
Horses to be sold are washed in the river before being raced bareback on the
Flashing track to show off their ability. Their is a big market selling
horse equipment and general items. They also they have a Harness Race
meeting.
Derek.

Dan McLean

At the mouth of the River Rhone they have a large park or protected area
called The Camargue, in this there is a small village called Saintes Maries
de la Mer and every year thousands of gypsies from all over Europe
congregate here to celebrate their saints day as someone else has pointed
out already.

The Camargue area is worth going to see, apart from the wildlife there are
some marvellous protected towns like Aigues Mortes etc. You can see the
famous white horses of the Camargue and the very colourful cowboys who herd
them. This area has been well described in several books and films, I think
a book called Caravan to Vacares may have mentioned the Camargue.

There used to be many gypsies in Slovakia but they seem to have almost
disappeared, I went out to dinner one night in a nice restaurant where a
traditional gypsy band was supposed to be playing but none of the musicians
was a gypsy. I asked them why there were no gypsies in the band and was
told that they get more money for playing in Vienna... to answer your
question the gypsies seem to have become economic migrants into the EU.

Evelynvogtgamble

webpecker wrote:
    >
    > On Tue, 05 Aug 2003 16:09:25 GMT, "e-head" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern europe
    > >probably ?
    >
    > the most significant gipsy gathering's in the Camargue national park,
    > South of France, in August I believe...
    >
    > PS: In Pescara, Abruzzo, Italy (where I live) they're called "pigri"
    > (Italian for "lazies") because they've been assigned municipal housing
    > and aren't ro(a)ming anymore (a former city major was married with a
    > gipsy)...

I think the entire world is just becoming too homogenous - national
differences in customs and dress have all but disappeared in urban
areas, and even more so the individual "flavor" of sub-groups like
gypsies! I remember once, when I was a very little girl, back in the
1940's, there was an encampment of "genuine" gypsies near where one of
my uncles lived - complete with (rather dirty) gaudy clothes and a real
"caravan" (which I promptly wanted one of - it seemed a superior kind of
"playhouse" on wheels to me).

Of course Hitler did his best to rid the world of Gypsies as well as
Jews. Gypsies being fewer, he came closer to his odious goal, I think -
and any who maintain the traditional life-style seem to be a thing of
the past, at least here in the U.S.

Alan Harrison

"Keith Willshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > the 20th century. First Herr Hitler put them on his shit
    > list along with the Jews and then the communists disapproved
    > of their nomadic life style. As a result they tend to keep a low
    > profile these days.

The Tankies did disapprove of the nomadic lifestyle, but, to be fair, they
also suppressed a lot of the anti-Romany shite which Gypsies have suffered
in recent years in the Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. A
Google search for the names "Nora Novakova" and "Richard Samko" might prove
interesting...

Alan Harrison

E-Head

    > I think the entire world is just becoming too homogenous - national
    > differences in customs and dress have all but disappeared in urban
    > areas, and even more so the individual "flavor" of sub-groups like
    > gypsies! I remember once, when I was a very little girl, back in the
    > 1940's, there was an encampment of "genuine" gypsies near where one of
    > my uncles lived - complete with (rather dirty) gaudy clothes and a real
    > "caravan" (which I promptly wanted one of - it seemed a superior kind of
    > "playhouse" on wheels to me).
    > Of course Hitler did his best to rid the world of Gypsies as well as
    > Jews. Gypsies being fewer, he came closer to his odious goal, I think -
    > and any who maintain the traditional life-style seem to be a thing of
    > the past, at least here in the U.S.

I agree with you completely.
I think here in America this Homogeneity process is even more apparent.
We are such a hodgepodge of different cultures that I have no idea what it
means to be American.
I mean, the stereotypical things considered "American", like baseball and
apple pie, dont really mean a whole lot to me.

Personally, I feel absolutely no connection with any sort of "larger"
tradition or continuity.
I dont feel like a "southerner", even though I was raised in the south.
I dont really feel like an "American" either, I just happened to be born
here.
In it's defense, I will say this great "melting pot" that is America has
been quite an experiment !
It is interesting to see people's from all over the world living together in
a city like NY or D.C.

But I hate to see colorful cultures and traditions discarded in other parts
of the world just to become more "modern".

I read an article on the BBC about how "strip malls" were becoming more and
more popular in the UK, and that the
days of people shopping at quaint locally owned shops in the center center
were numbered.
God, lets hope not !

I personally find the American subburb, with all its shopping malls and fast
food chains, too depressing beyond belief.
One of the things I loved most about Spain was that out
20th-century-junk-culture of pre-fabbed-mass-produced shops and
cookie-cutter-chain-stores
had yet to make much inroads in Catalunya.

To think all of Europe could become like Orange county in L.A., or Arlington
here outside D.C., is very dreary.

e

Keeger

"e-head" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern europe
    >probably ?
    >Somewhere in the vicinity of Romania, Hungary, or Bulgaria I'm thinking ?

I just saw an episode of Globe Trekker last night and host Ian Wright
attended an authentic Gypsy festival in Bistrita, Romania. I believe
this festival took place in September. Here are details on the show.
Hopefully you can find it in your local TV listings. A DVD is also
available from the site.

http://www.pilotguides.com/tv_shows/...nd_romania.php

K

John Bermont

I saw and photographed a 'traditional Gypsy caravan' in Romania about 10
years ago. There were a half dozen Conestoga type horse drawn wagons in
a field with a camp fire going. In the big cities of southern and
eastern Europe you'll see large groups of them now and then, hanging out
and ready to grab your wallet. I've had several encounters with them
in different countries.

John Bermont
http://www.enjoy-europe.com/

e-head wrote:
    > The Gypsy/Roma peoples of Europe have been slowly abandoning the traditional
    > lifestyle, and have been absorbed more and more
    > into the local cultures from what I understand.
    >
    > I'm just curious where one is most likely to see a traditional Gypsy
    > caravan.
    > I was always fascinated with gypsies as a kid (I'm sure all kids are), and
    > my family was so boring I always secretly wished
    > I would be abducted by Gypsies ... Of course I grew up in Texas and Georgia,
    > so this wasn't very likely to happen.
    > %^)
    >
    > We do have so called Irish Travellers here in the states, or what I always
    > knew as "tinkerers", till it was decided that term was derogatory.
    > (who decides these things anyways ?).
    >
    > Would one be more likely to see a bona-fide Gypsy caravan in eastern europe
    > probably ?
    > Somewhere in the vicinity of Romania, Hungary, or Bulgaria I'm thinking ?
    >
    > Also, just out of curiosity, does the Gypsy language have a multitude of
    > sub-languages and dialects ?
    > Or can a gypsy from England, say, converse with a Gypsy from Slovakia ?
    >
    > cheers,
    > e
    >
    >

Howard Sternak

There is this website http://www.romani.org

When we were in Paris a month ago, a Romani got on board and pulled
various musical pipes out of his bag and started playing working his
way up to a big bagpipe. He was very good. We gave him a Euro.

Someone I met there said generally you need to stay away from "gypsies"
because if you get too close, if theyre the criminal kind, theyll get your
stuff.
He had seen several incidents of this either of a guy surrounded by them
and had to give up his wallet and one where a little baby a woman was
carrying
got too close and grabbed his jacket and wouldnt let go. They emptied his
pockets
while he was trying to get the baby loose. We were told to be careful at
Sacre Couer because
the little gypsy kids surround you and pick your pockets but we didnt run
into any there.

David
http://www.worldwidecat.com/travel/