War without France
Feb 13th 2003, 11:18 am
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
> Turkey is aiding preparations for a war of aggression. They are not
> entitled to a NATO 'defence'.
It's not a question of entitlement it's a question of loyalty, a word which Germany and France seems to have forgotten.
Is it so many years since American blood was spilt on the beaches of Normandy to liberate France?, not so many years since the statement by Kennedy
" Ich bien berlinner" or have the Germans forgotten the umbrella under which they sheltered that was provided by the USA in their hour of need.
At this hour history will judge you, and your ancestors will be ashamed of your selfish reaction, you the country who brought so much despair and
despoliation to Europe are yet again avoiding your responsibilities. Hitler like Sadam depended upon a compliant nation, and you will be judged by
your craven actions.
BJ
> entitled to a NATO 'defence'.
It's not a question of entitlement it's a question of loyalty, a word which Germany and France seems to have forgotten.
Is it so many years since American blood was spilt on the beaches of Normandy to liberate France?, not so many years since the statement by Kennedy
" Ich bien berlinner" or have the Germans forgotten the umbrella under which they sheltered that was provided by the USA in their hour of need.
At this hour history will judge you, and your ancestors will be ashamed of your selfish reaction, you the country who brought so much despair and
despoliation to Europe are yet again avoiding your responsibilities. Hitler like Sadam depended upon a compliant nation, and you will be judged by
your craven actions.
BJ
Feb 13th 2003, 11:22 am
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:03:05 +0000, Jean White wrote:
> This newsgroup has slipped away from its
> intended purpose, i.e., travel in
> Europe, but since this subject has been
> placed into the agenda, here is another
> view on the subject.
>
>
> Subject: French Military Prowess Revisited
Avoiding a long winded argument on the detail of this and that, but
sticking to one example that's clearly inaccurate:
> 14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated
> and on the way to losing, France is
> saved by the United States. Winds up a
> tie for les francaise. Thousands of
> French women find out what it's like to
> not only sleep with a winner, but one
> who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
> the American fascination with personal
> hygiene (a fascination totally foreign
> to French women) incites widespread use
> of condoms by American soldiers, thus
> precluding any improvement in the French
> bloodline.
I don't believe any serious historian would argue that when the US entered
WWI, the wind had already turned against Germany. WWI was by no means a
humiliation for France. Terribly painful for all the European countries
which managed to get themselves involved in the stupid mess, yes. But
that's another story.
(It's actually interesting, when visiting France and going to smaller
towns and villages. The contrast between monuments celebrating WWI and
WWII victims. Often it's as if WWII never took place...)
> This newsgroup has slipped away from its
> intended purpose, i.e., travel in
> Europe, but since this subject has been
> placed into the agenda, here is another
> view on the subject.
>
>
> Subject: French Military Prowess Revisited
Avoiding a long winded argument on the detail of this and that, but
sticking to one example that's clearly inaccurate:
> 14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated
> and on the way to losing, France is
> saved by the United States. Winds up a
> tie for les francaise. Thousands of
> French women find out what it's like to
> not only sleep with a winner, but one
> who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
> the American fascination with personal
> hygiene (a fascination totally foreign
> to French women) incites widespread use
> of condoms by American soldiers, thus
> precluding any improvement in the French
> bloodline.
I don't believe any serious historian would argue that when the US entered
WWI, the wind had already turned against Germany. WWI was by no means a
humiliation for France. Terribly painful for all the European countries
which managed to get themselves involved in the stupid mess, yes. But
that's another story.
(It's actually interesting, when visiting France and going to smaller
towns and villages. The contrast between monuments celebrating WWI and
WWII victims. Often it's as if WWII never took place...)
Feb 13th 2003, 11:24 am
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:26:19 +0000, Gordon Forbess wrote:
> And it looks like France, Germany, and Belgium don't give a f%^k about
> Turkey.
Well, if Turkey wants to participate on an attack against Iraq, claiming
that the NATO treaty applies is at best disingenuous.
Yet another of these Rumsfeld's hypocrisies. Was he a jesuit in a
previous life? Sure looks like one to me.
> And it looks like France, Germany, and Belgium don't give a f%^k about
> Turkey.
Well, if Turkey wants to participate on an attack against Iraq, claiming
that the NATO treaty applies is at best disingenuous.
Yet another of these Rumsfeld's hypocrisies. Was he a jesuit in a
previous life? Sure looks like one to me.
Feb 13th 2003, 11:52 am
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
le Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:18:10 +0000, dans l'article , BJ a dit ...
>> Turkey is aiding preparations for a war of aggression. They are not
>> entitled to a NATO 'defence'.
> It's not a question of entitlement it's a question of loyalty,
It is very much a question of entitlement. Neither the United States nor
Turkey is presently threatened by Iraq. What the former is preparing (with
the material aid of the latter) is a war of aggression. I feel no loyalty
towards aggressors whose actions will result in the death of innocents.
> a word which Germany and France seems to have forgotten.
, . You can do better than that.
> Is it so many years since American blood was spilt on the beaches of
> Normandy to liberate France?, not so many years since the statement by
> Kennedy " Ich bien berlinner" or have the Germans forgotten the umbrella
> under which they sheltered that was provided by the USA in their hour of
> need.
I feel confident in stating that no one in this fair continent has
forgotten the American contribution to the victory over fascism. Note the
word 'contribution'. Russia paid a much higher price in human terms, and
had that price not been paid, I fear that the result would have been
different.
What riles is the 'if it weren't for us, you'd be speaking German' jibe.
Let no one forget the sacrifice of the United States to guarantee peace and
freedom. Yet does gratitude necessarily entail blind obediance ? Can one
not thank the United States, whilst acting to check its moments of madness?
Isn't that what friends are for ?
> At this hour history will judge you, and your ancestors will be ashamed
> of your selfish reaction, you the country who brought so much despair and
> despoliation to Europe are yet again avoiding your responsibilities.
> Hitler like Sadam depended upon a compliant nation, and you will be
> judged by your craven actions.
I hope that there is a history to judge us. I'll take my chances.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
>> Turkey is aiding preparations for a war of aggression. They are not
>> entitled to a NATO 'defence'.
> It's not a question of entitlement it's a question of loyalty,
It is very much a question of entitlement. Neither the United States nor
Turkey is presently threatened by Iraq. What the former is preparing (with
the material aid of the latter) is a war of aggression. I feel no loyalty
towards aggressors whose actions will result in the death of innocents.
> a word which Germany and France seems to have forgotten.
, . You can do better than that.
> Is it so many years since American blood was spilt on the beaches of
> Normandy to liberate France?, not so many years since the statement by
> Kennedy " Ich bien berlinner" or have the Germans forgotten the umbrella
> under which they sheltered that was provided by the USA in their hour of
> need.
I feel confident in stating that no one in this fair continent has
forgotten the American contribution to the victory over fascism. Note the
word 'contribution'. Russia paid a much higher price in human terms, and
had that price not been paid, I fear that the result would have been
different.
What riles is the 'if it weren't for us, you'd be speaking German' jibe.
Let no one forget the sacrifice of the United States to guarantee peace and
freedom. Yet does gratitude necessarily entail blind obediance ? Can one
not thank the United States, whilst acting to check its moments of madness?
Isn't that what friends are for ?
> At this hour history will judge you, and your ancestors will be ashamed
> of your selfish reaction, you the country who brought so much despair and
> despoliation to Europe are yet again avoiding your responsibilities.
> Hitler like Sadam depended upon a compliant nation, and you will be
> judged by your craven actions.
I hope that there is a history to judge us. I'll take my chances.
--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Feb 13th 2003, 12:43 pm
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
Did you hear about the sale of vintage French army rifles. They're in great
condition - only dropped once!
"Jean White" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This newsgroup has slipped away from its
> intended purpose, i.e., travel in
> Europe, but since this subject has been
> placed into the agenda, here is another
> view on the subject.
> Subject: French Military Prowess Revisited
> President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld
> may be upset that the French are not
> "assisting" us in this fight, but out
> here at the tip of the spear (Somewhere
> in the mideast), there is nothing but
> jubilation at their absence. Last thing
> we need is to be carrying the French on
> our shoulders.
> A cursory review of French military
> history reveals the following:
> 1 - Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose
> ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years
> of French history, France is conquered
> by of all things, an Italian.
> 2 - Hundred Years War - Mostly lost,
> saved at last by a female schizophrenic
> who inadvertently creates The First Rule
> of French Warfare: "French armies are
> victorious only when not led by a
> Frenchman."
> 3 - Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes
> the first and only country to ever lose
> two wars when fighting Italians.
> 4 - Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4
> against the Huguenots.
> 5 - Thirty Years War - France is
> technically not a participant but still
> manages to get invaded. Claims a tie on
> the basis that eventually the other
> participants started ignoring her.
> 6 - War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen
> take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
> 7 - The Dutch War - Tied. Dutch farmers
> and tulip growers are tougher than they
> look.
> 8 - War of the Augsburg League/King
> William's War/French and Indian War -
> Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties
> in a row induces deluded Francophiles
> the world over to label the period as
> the height of French military power.
> 9 - War of the Spanish Succession -
> Lost. The War also gave the French their
> first taste of a Marlborough, which they
> have loved every since.
> 10 - American Revolution - In a move
> that will become quite familiar to
> future Americans, France claims a win
> even though the English colonists saw
> far more action. This is later known as
> "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the
> Second Rule of French Warfare; " France
> only wins when America does most of the
> fighting."
> 11 - French Revolution - Won, primarily
> due the fact that the opponent was also
> French.
> 12 - The Napoleonic Wars - Lost.
> Temporary victories (remember the First
> Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican,
> who ended up being no match for the
> Russian winter, Prussian grenadiers or a
> British footwear designer.
> 13 - The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. For
> the first, but certainly not the last
> time, Germany plays the role of drunk
> frat boy to France 's ugly girl home
> alone on a Saturday night.
> 14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated
> and on the way to losing, France is
> saved by the United States. Winds up a
> tie for les francaise. Thousands of
> French women find out what it's like to
> not only sleep with a winner, but one
> who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
> the American fascination with personal
> hygiene (a fascination totally foreign
> to French women) incites widespread use
> of condoms by American soldiers, thus
> precluding any improvement in the French
> bloodline.
> 15 - World War II - A decisive defeat
> even by French standards. Hitler and the
> German Youth spend Christmas time
> sleeping soundly through the winter,
> then arouse themselves to conquer France
> in six weeks. Hitler dances in front of
> the Eiffel Tower, while the French
> command staff retreats to Algeria to
> institute a crash language program to
> teach French privates how to say "I
> surrender" in German and French generals
> to say "We surrender" in German.
> Conquered French liberated by the United
> States and Britain just as they finish
> learning the Horst Wessel Song and some
> small portion of the German work ethic.
> De Gaulle of it all...
> 16 - First Vietnamese war (in Vietnamese
> circles, known as "the scrimmage", or
> "the exhibition game" where the varsity
> squad is kept on the sideline to see how
> the second string will play) - Lost.
> French soldiers, fresh off their four
> year occupation by the Germans, catch a
> terminal case of Dien Bien Flu.
> 17 - Algerian rebellion - Lost. First
> time an Arab army has beaten a Western
> army since the Crusades, and produces
> the first rule of modern Islamic
> warfare: "We can always beat the
> French." A nice phrase, but it lacks
> something in originality, since it is
> also the first rule of warfare for the
> Italians, Russians, Prussians, Germans,
> English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese,
> Native Americans and capitalists.
> 18 - War on Terrorism - Lost. Incensed
> at not being included in the original
> "Axis of Evil," France refuses to
> participate. When it becomes clear that
> this is a "no-kidding war," Jacques
> Chirac looks at his cards and
> immediately surrenders to that old
> warhorse, Gerhard Schroeder. For good
> measure, he also surrenders to five
> million illegal immigrants from Algeria.
> The moral of the story is - give thanks
> to God on high that the French are not he
condition - only dropped once!
"Jean White" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This newsgroup has slipped away from its
> intended purpose, i.e., travel in
> Europe, but since this subject has been
> placed into the agenda, here is another
> view on the subject.
> Subject: French Military Prowess Revisited
> President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld
> may be upset that the French are not
> "assisting" us in this fight, but out
> here at the tip of the spear (Somewhere
> in the mideast), there is nothing but
> jubilation at their absence. Last thing
> we need is to be carrying the French on
> our shoulders.
> A cursory review of French military
> history reveals the following:
> 1 - Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose
> ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years
> of French history, France is conquered
> by of all things, an Italian.
> 2 - Hundred Years War - Mostly lost,
> saved at last by a female schizophrenic
> who inadvertently creates The First Rule
> of French Warfare: "French armies are
> victorious only when not led by a
> Frenchman."
> 3 - Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes
> the first and only country to ever lose
> two wars when fighting Italians.
> 4 - Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4
> against the Huguenots.
> 5 - Thirty Years War - France is
> technically not a participant but still
> manages to get invaded. Claims a tie on
> the basis that eventually the other
> participants started ignoring her.
> 6 - War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen
> take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
> 7 - The Dutch War - Tied. Dutch farmers
> and tulip growers are tougher than they
> look.
> 8 - War of the Augsburg League/King
> William's War/French and Indian War -
> Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties
> in a row induces deluded Francophiles
> the world over to label the period as
> the height of French military power.
> 9 - War of the Spanish Succession -
> Lost. The War also gave the French their
> first taste of a Marlborough, which they
> have loved every since.
> 10 - American Revolution - In a move
> that will become quite familiar to
> future Americans, France claims a win
> even though the English colonists saw
> far more action. This is later known as
> "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the
> Second Rule of French Warfare; " France
> only wins when America does most of the
> fighting."
> 11 - French Revolution - Won, primarily
> due the fact that the opponent was also
> French.
> 12 - The Napoleonic Wars - Lost.
> Temporary victories (remember the First
> Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican,
> who ended up being no match for the
> Russian winter, Prussian grenadiers or a
> British footwear designer.
> 13 - The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. For
> the first, but certainly not the last
> time, Germany plays the role of drunk
> frat boy to France 's ugly girl home
> alone on a Saturday night.
> 14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated
> and on the way to losing, France is
> saved by the United States. Winds up a
> tie for les francaise. Thousands of
> French women find out what it's like to
> not only sleep with a winner, but one
> who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
> the American fascination with personal
> hygiene (a fascination totally foreign
> to French women) incites widespread use
> of condoms by American soldiers, thus
> precluding any improvement in the French
> bloodline.
> 15 - World War II - A decisive defeat
> even by French standards. Hitler and the
> German Youth spend Christmas time
> sleeping soundly through the winter,
> then arouse themselves to conquer France
> in six weeks. Hitler dances in front of
> the Eiffel Tower, while the French
> command staff retreats to Algeria to
> institute a crash language program to
> teach French privates how to say "I
> surrender" in German and French generals
> to say "We surrender" in German.
> Conquered French liberated by the United
> States and Britain just as they finish
> learning the Horst Wessel Song and some
> small portion of the German work ethic.
> De Gaulle of it all...
> 16 - First Vietnamese war (in Vietnamese
> circles, known as "the scrimmage", or
> "the exhibition game" where the varsity
> squad is kept on the sideline to see how
> the second string will play) - Lost.
> French soldiers, fresh off their four
> year occupation by the Germans, catch a
> terminal case of Dien Bien Flu.
> 17 - Algerian rebellion - Lost. First
> time an Arab army has beaten a Western
> army since the Crusades, and produces
> the first rule of modern Islamic
> warfare: "We can always beat the
> French." A nice phrase, but it lacks
> something in originality, since it is
> also the first rule of warfare for the
> Italians, Russians, Prussians, Germans,
> English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese,
> Native Americans and capitalists.
> 18 - War on Terrorism - Lost. Incensed
> at not being included in the original
> "Axis of Evil," France refuses to
> participate. When it becomes clear that
> this is a "no-kidding war," Jacques
> Chirac looks at his cards and
> immediately surrenders to that old
> warhorse, Gerhard Schroeder. For good
> measure, he also surrenders to five
> million illegal immigrants from Algeria.
> The moral of the story is - give thanks
> to God on high that the French are not he
Feb 13th 2003, 12:54 pm
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
That is just about the funniest sh*# I have EVER read, my friend.
If you are not a writer, the world is worse for it. If you are, please tell
me where I can read more of your epistles.
And I'm not just saying that because you lambasted my favourite historical
topic. Ever since I was 12 and saw "The World at War" documentary episode
that showed sweet young French fils petulantly beating on Allied soldiers as
the soldiers rounded up their German boyfriends several weeks after D-Day,
my blood has run cold at the mention of Gallic military endeavours. I would
have rounded up all those pretty young girls and trucked them up to the
beaches to bury my soldiers by hand if I had been the commanding Allied
officer.
You have enriched my knowledge immensely, and I thank you.
My apologies to all members of the French Resistance. Not the 10 million who
claim to have been a part of it - the 200 or so who actually were.
"Jean White" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This newsgroup has slipped away from its
> intended purpose, i.e., travel in
> Europe, but since this subject has been
> placed into the agenda, here is another
> view on the subject.
> Subject: French Military Prowess Revisited
> President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld
> may be upset that the French are not
> "assisting" us in this fight, but out
> here at the tip of the spear (Somewhere
> in the mideast), there is nothing but
> jubilation at their absence. Last thing
> we need is to be carrying the French on
> our shoulders.
> A cursory review of French military
> history reveals the following:
> 1 - Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose
> ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years
> of French history, France is conquered
> by of all things, an Italian.
> 2 - Hundred Years War - Mostly lost,
> saved at last by a female schizophrenic
> who inadvertently creates The First Rule
> of French Warfare: "French armies are
> victorious only when not led by a
> Frenchman."
> 3 - Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes
> the first and only country to ever lose
> two wars when fighting Italians.
> 4 - Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4
> against the Huguenots.
> 5 - Thirty Years War - France is
> technically not a participant but still
> manages to get invaded. Claims a tie on
> the basis that eventually the other
> participants started ignoring her.
> 6 - War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen
> take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
> 7 - The Dutch War - Tied. Dutch farmers
> and tulip growers are tougher than they
> look.
> 8 - War of the Augsburg League/King
> William's War/French and Indian War -
> Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties
> in a row induces deluded Francophiles
> the world over to label the period as
> the height of French military power.
> 9 - War of the Spanish Succession -
> Lost. The War also gave the French their
> first taste of a Marlborough, which they
> have loved every since.
> 10 - American Revolution - In a move
> that will become quite familiar to
> future Americans, France claims a win
> even though the English colonists saw
> far more action. This is later known as
> "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the
> Second Rule of French Warfare; " France
> only wins when America does most of the
> fighting."
> 11 - French Revolution - Won, primarily
> due the fact that the opponent was also
> French.
> 12 - The Napoleonic Wars - Lost.
> Temporary victories (remember the First
> Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican,
> who ended up being no match for the
> Russian winter, Prussian grenadiers or a
> British footwear designer.
> 13 - The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. For
> the first, but certainly not the last
> time, Germany plays the role of drunk
> frat boy to France 's ugly girl home
> alone on a Saturday night.
> 14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated
> and on the way to losing, France is
> saved by the United States. Winds up a
> tie for les francaise. Thousands of
> French women find out what it's like to
> not only sleep with a winner, but one
> who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
> the American fascination with personal
> hygiene (a fascination totally foreign
> to French women) incites widespread use
> of condoms by American soldiers, thus
> precluding any improvement in the French
> bloodline.
> 15 - World War II - A decisive defeat
> even by French standards. Hitler and the
> German Youth spend Christmas time
> sleeping soundly through the winter,
> then arouse themselves to conquer France
> in six weeks. Hitler dances in front of
> the Eiffel Tower, while the French
> command staff retreats to Algeria to
> institute a crash language program to
> teach French privates how to say "I
> surrender" in German and French generals
> to say "We surrender" in German.
> Conquered French liberated by the United
> States and Britain just as they finish
> learning the Horst Wessel Song and some
> small portion of the German work ethic.
> De Gaulle of it all...
> 16 - First Vietnamese war (in Vietnamese
> circles, known as "the scrimmage", or
> "the exhibition game" where the varsity
> squad is kept on the sideline to see how
> the second string will play) - Lost.
> French soldiers, fresh off their four
> year occupation by the Germans, catch a
> terminal case of Dien Bien Flu.
> 17 - Algerian rebellion - Lost. First
> time an Arab army has beaten a Western
> army since the Crusades, and produces
> the first rule of modern Islamic
> warfare: "We can always beat the
> French." A nice phrase, but it lacks
> something in originality, since it is
> also the first rule of warfare for the
> Italians, Russians, Prussians, Germans,
> English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese,
> Native Americans and capitalists.
> 18 - War on Terrorism - Lost. Incensed
> at not being included in the original
> "Axis of Evil," France refuses to
> participate. When it becomes clear that
> this is a "no-kidding war," Jacques
> Chirac looks at his cards and
> immediately surrenders to that old
> warhorse, Gerhard Schroeder. For good
> measure, he also surrenders to five
> million illegal immigrants from Algeria.
> The moral of the story is - give thanks
> to God on high that the French are not he
If you are not a writer, the world is worse for it. If you are, please tell
me where I can read more of your epistles.
And I'm not just saying that because you lambasted my favourite historical
topic. Ever since I was 12 and saw "The World at War" documentary episode
that showed sweet young French fils petulantly beating on Allied soldiers as
the soldiers rounded up their German boyfriends several weeks after D-Day,
my blood has run cold at the mention of Gallic military endeavours. I would
have rounded up all those pretty young girls and trucked them up to the
beaches to bury my soldiers by hand if I had been the commanding Allied
officer.
You have enriched my knowledge immensely, and I thank you.
My apologies to all members of the French Resistance. Not the 10 million who
claim to have been a part of it - the 200 or so who actually were.
"Jean White" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> This newsgroup has slipped away from its
> intended purpose, i.e., travel in
> Europe, but since this subject has been
> placed into the agenda, here is another
> view on the subject.
> Subject: French Military Prowess Revisited
> President Bush and Secretary Rumsfeld
> may be upset that the French are not
> "assisting" us in this fight, but out
> here at the tip of the spear (Somewhere
> in the mideast), there is nothing but
> jubilation at their absence. Last thing
> we need is to be carrying the French on
> our shoulders.
> A cursory review of French military
> history reveals the following:
> 1 - Gallic Wars - Lost. In a war whose
> ending foreshadows the next 2,000 years
> of French history, France is conquered
> by of all things, an Italian.
> 2 - Hundred Years War - Mostly lost,
> saved at last by a female schizophrenic
> who inadvertently creates The First Rule
> of French Warfare: "French armies are
> victorious only when not led by a
> Frenchman."
> 3 - Italian Wars - Lost. France becomes
> the first and only country to ever lose
> two wars when fighting Italians.
> 4 - Wars of Religion - France goes 0-5-4
> against the Huguenots.
> 5 - Thirty Years War - France is
> technically not a participant but still
> manages to get invaded. Claims a tie on
> the basis that eventually the other
> participants started ignoring her.
> 6 - War of Devolution - Tied. Frenchmen
> take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.
> 7 - The Dutch War - Tied. Dutch farmers
> and tulip growers are tougher than they
> look.
> 8 - War of the Augsburg League/King
> William's War/French and Indian War -
> Lost, but claimed as a tie. Three ties
> in a row induces deluded Francophiles
> the world over to label the period as
> the height of French military power.
> 9 - War of the Spanish Succession -
> Lost. The War also gave the French their
> first taste of a Marlborough, which they
> have loved every since.
> 10 - American Revolution - In a move
> that will become quite familiar to
> future Americans, France claims a win
> even though the English colonists saw
> far more action. This is later known as
> "de Gaulle Syndrome", and leads to the
> Second Rule of French Warfare; " France
> only wins when America does most of the
> fighting."
> 11 - French Revolution - Won, primarily
> due the fact that the opponent was also
> French.
> 12 - The Napoleonic Wars - Lost.
> Temporary victories (remember the First
> Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican,
> who ended up being no match for the
> Russian winter, Prussian grenadiers or a
> British footwear designer.
> 13 - The Franco-Prussian War - Lost. For
> the first, but certainly not the last
> time, Germany plays the role of drunk
> frat boy to France 's ugly girl home
> alone on a Saturday night.
> 14 - World War I - Invaded, humiliated
> and on the way to losing, France is
> saved by the United States. Winds up a
> tie for les francaise. Thousands of
> French women find out what it's like to
> not only sleep with a winner, but one
> who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly,
> the American fascination with personal
> hygiene (a fascination totally foreign
> to French women) incites widespread use
> of condoms by American soldiers, thus
> precluding any improvement in the French
> bloodline.
> 15 - World War II - A decisive defeat
> even by French standards. Hitler and the
> German Youth spend Christmas time
> sleeping soundly through the winter,
> then arouse themselves to conquer France
> in six weeks. Hitler dances in front of
> the Eiffel Tower, while the French
> command staff retreats to Algeria to
> institute a crash language program to
> teach French privates how to say "I
> surrender" in German and French generals
> to say "We surrender" in German.
> Conquered French liberated by the United
> States and Britain just as they finish
> learning the Horst Wessel Song and some
> small portion of the German work ethic.
> De Gaulle of it all...
> 16 - First Vietnamese war (in Vietnamese
> circles, known as "the scrimmage", or
> "the exhibition game" where the varsity
> squad is kept on the sideline to see how
> the second string will play) - Lost.
> French soldiers, fresh off their four
> year occupation by the Germans, catch a
> terminal case of Dien Bien Flu.
> 17 - Algerian rebellion - Lost. First
> time an Arab army has beaten a Western
> army since the Crusades, and produces
> the first rule of modern Islamic
> warfare: "We can always beat the
> French." A nice phrase, but it lacks
> something in originality, since it is
> also the first rule of warfare for the
> Italians, Russians, Prussians, Germans,
> English, Dutch, Spanish, Vietnamese,
> Native Americans and capitalists.
> 18 - War on Terrorism - Lost. Incensed
> at not being included in the original
> "Axis of Evil," France refuses to
> participate. When it becomes clear that
> this is a "no-kidding war," Jacques
> Chirac looks at his cards and
> immediately surrenders to that old
> warhorse, Gerhard Schroeder. For good
> measure, he also surrenders to five
> million illegal immigrants from Algeria.
> The moral of the story is - give thanks
> to God on high that the French are not he
Feb 13th 2003, 3:57 pm
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:46:06 +0000, Padraig Breathnach
wrote:
>Turkey is quite safe unless the US ****s up the situation in the
>Middle East.
Of course. Because the US is sending in the equipment to protect the
Turks while 3 members of nato engage in symbolic posturing. Deja vu.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Gordon
wrote:
>Turkey is quite safe unless the US ****s up the situation in the
>Middle East.
Of course. Because the US is sending in the equipment to protect the
Turks while 3 members of nato engage in symbolic posturing. Deja vu.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way.
Gordon
Feb 13th 2003, 4:20 pm
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
> Touche, as they say in France...
> How I understand it, is that they don't want to prepare for war, when
> war could still be avoided. When the war starts, they will help Turkey
> to *defend* itself.
Dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. "After it Starts?" Ahh, might
be to late then.... duh... Probably on the first day Saddam will start
launching
missiles full of Toxins, Anthrax, VX, etc... all over the region.
I think their protection is needed before that happens.
Sharing defense-resources is what Nato was created
> for; Nato is *not* about members *having to* support a nato-member that
> wants to attack another country. The way the US deal with the countries
> that are having second thoughts about a possible war is, in my opinion,
> a bit childish and extremely arrogant.
Considering the vote was something like 16-3 in favor of defending Turkey
I think France, Germany, and Belgium's opinion is in the minority and well,
a bit childish and arrogant. This considering for most of the last 40 years
France had no interest in being a big part of NATO during the tough times
in the Cold War. Of course after the Soviet threat was gone
they showed a greater interest in NATO's affairs.
> The US have already stated the *only* reason for this war is to make the
> US influence in the region stronger. Why would we (have to) support
> that?
Sources for this please? One of the main reasons France and Germany are
opposed to this war and fans of letting Iraq off of Sanctions is because
their
countries would gain several Oil Contracts and Reconstruction contracts in
Iraq.
(Russia as well) when/if they are lifted. These deals have already been
"inked"
by your corporations and are contingent on Sanctions being lifted.
Also, it is widely speculated that both France and Germany have
defied UN sanctions and resolutions in regards to trade with Iraq during
recent years.
Once Iraq is liberated, these secrets are bound to become public and become
an embarrassment to them.
Furthermore, with a large Muslim population, Chirac's Foreign policies are
geared toward
his domestic audience and domestic politics. Same for Schroeder (sp?) in
Germany.
They are not Peacnik's, but leaders looking out for their own asses. Just
like we are as well.
If we don't look out for our own ass, it will be blown off by a weapon
donated to AL Qaeda
from Saddam.
Saddam has had 12 years to disarm and hasn't. How much longer should we give
him?
It's time to get rid of him and do it as quick as possible. Sanctions were a
disaster and just
harmed his people and not him. Even with out a war, more innocent Iraqi's
will die from continued
sanctions. Let's send in the troops and hope for a quick end to this saga.
Amen
> I'm looking forward to what Mr. Blix has to say tomorrow, and the
> reactions of various countries to it.
Me to
> ;-)
> Lourens
> How I understand it, is that they don't want to prepare for war, when
> war could still be avoided. When the war starts, they will help Turkey
> to *defend* itself.
Dumbest thing I have heard in a long time. "After it Starts?" Ahh, might
be to late then.... duh... Probably on the first day Saddam will start
launching
missiles full of Toxins, Anthrax, VX, etc... all over the region.
I think their protection is needed before that happens.
Sharing defense-resources is what Nato was created
> for; Nato is *not* about members *having to* support a nato-member that
> wants to attack another country. The way the US deal with the countries
> that are having second thoughts about a possible war is, in my opinion,
> a bit childish and extremely arrogant.
Considering the vote was something like 16-3 in favor of defending Turkey
I think France, Germany, and Belgium's opinion is in the minority and well,
a bit childish and arrogant. This considering for most of the last 40 years
France had no interest in being a big part of NATO during the tough times
in the Cold War. Of course after the Soviet threat was gone
they showed a greater interest in NATO's affairs.
> The US have already stated the *only* reason for this war is to make the
> US influence in the region stronger. Why would we (have to) support
> that?
Sources for this please? One of the main reasons France and Germany are
opposed to this war and fans of letting Iraq off of Sanctions is because
their
countries would gain several Oil Contracts and Reconstruction contracts in
Iraq.
(Russia as well) when/if they are lifted. These deals have already been
"inked"
by your corporations and are contingent on Sanctions being lifted.
Also, it is widely speculated that both France and Germany have
defied UN sanctions and resolutions in regards to trade with Iraq during
recent years.
Once Iraq is liberated, these secrets are bound to become public and become
an embarrassment to them.
Furthermore, with a large Muslim population, Chirac's Foreign policies are
geared toward
his domestic audience and domestic politics. Same for Schroeder (sp?) in
Germany.
They are not Peacnik's, but leaders looking out for their own asses. Just
like we are as well.
If we don't look out for our own ass, it will be blown off by a weapon
donated to AL Qaeda
from Saddam.
Saddam has had 12 years to disarm and hasn't. How much longer should we give
him?
It's time to get rid of him and do it as quick as possible. Sanctions were a
disaster and just
harmed his people and not him. Even with out a war, more innocent Iraqi's
will die from continued
sanctions. Let's send in the troops and hope for a quick end to this saga.
Amen
> I'm looking forward to what Mr. Blix has to say tomorrow, and the
> reactions of various countries to it.
Me to
> ;-)
> Lourens
Feb 13th 2003, 4:48 pm
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:18:10 +0000, in rec.travel.europe, BJ
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... > Turkey is aiding preparations for a war of aggression. They are not
... > entitled to a NATO 'defence'.
...
... It's not a question of entitlement it's a question of loyalty, a word which Germany and France seems to have forgotten.
... Is it so many years since American blood was spilt on the beaches of Normandy to liberate France?
Given the number of times I see this fact mentioned every day, it looks like yesterday.
You really know how to crawl and beg for thanks ! 60 years of practice makes wonders...
=======
They say the best way to a man's heart is through his stomach. I say it's between his
third and fourth rib at a 45 degree angle.
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... > Turkey is aiding preparations for a war of aggression. They are not
... > entitled to a NATO 'defence'.
...
... It's not a question of entitlement it's a question of loyalty, a word which Germany and France seems to have forgotten.
... Is it so many years since American blood was spilt on the beaches of Normandy to liberate France?
Given the number of times I see this fact mentioned every day, it looks like yesterday.
You really know how to crawl and beg for thanks ! 60 years of practice makes wonders...
=======
They say the best way to a man's heart is through his stomach. I say it's between his
third and fourth rib at a 45 degree angle.
Feb 13th 2003, 4:58 pm
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 05:20:43 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Jim Morris"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... Considering the vote was something like 16-3 in favor of defending Turkey
... I think France, Germany, and Belgium's opinion is in the minority and well,
... a bit childish and arrogant. This considering for most of the last 40 years
... France had no interest in being a big part of NATO during the tough times
... in the Cold War. Of course after the Soviet threat was gone
... they showed a greater interest in NATO's affairs.
The funniest part is that Turkey is not arming itself with plastic and duct tape...
you are.
=======
They say the best way to a man's heart is through his stomach. I say it's between his
third and fourth rib at a 45 degree angle.
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
... Considering the vote was something like 16-3 in favor of defending Turkey
... I think France, Germany, and Belgium's opinion is in the minority and well,
... a bit childish and arrogant. This considering for most of the last 40 years
... France had no interest in being a big part of NATO during the tough times
... in the Cold War. Of course after the Soviet threat was gone
... they showed a greater interest in NATO's affairs.
The funniest part is that Turkey is not arming itself with plastic and duct tape...
you are.
=======
They say the best way to a man's heart is through his stomach. I say it's between his
third and fourth rib at a 45 degree angle.
Feb 13th 2003, 5:09 pm
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
Jim Morris wrote:
> If we don't look out for our own ass, it will be blown off by a weapon
> donated to AL Qaeda from Saddam.
> Saddam has had 12 years to disarm and hasn't.
He's also had 12 years to donate weapons to al Qaeda and hasn't. Instead,
both Saddam and al Qaeda use weapons donated to them by the United States.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> If we don't look out for our own ass, it will be blown off by a weapon
> donated to AL Qaeda from Saddam.
> Saddam has had 12 years to disarm and hasn't.
He's also had 12 years to donate weapons to al Qaeda and hasn't. Instead,
both Saddam and al Qaeda use weapons donated to them by the United States.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Feb 13th 2003, 8:42 pm
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
In news: [email protected],
BJ typed:
> Heard on Fox news this morning;
> "French tanks are designed with six gears, five reverse and one
> forward in case they get attacked in the rear."
Oh well. Yet another journalist who doesn't have a clue as to what (s)he's
talking about. So what ?
Jeff
)
BJ typed:
> Heard on Fox news this morning;
> "French tanks are designed with six gears, five reverse and one
> forward in case they get attacked in the rear."
Oh well. Yet another journalist who doesn't have a clue as to what (s)he's
talking about. So what ?
Jeff
)
Feb 13th 2003, 10:05 pm
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
In article , Desmond Coughlan
writes
>What riles is the 'if it weren't for us, you'd be speaking German' jibe.
>Let no one forget the sacrifice of the United States to guarantee peace and
>freedom. Yet does gratitude necessarily entail blind obediance ? Can one
>not thank the United States, whilst acting to check its moments of madness?
>Isn't that what friends are for ?
You are so right.
An analogy might be:
A friend saves my life.
I therefore have to support him for the rest of that life regardless of
whether he is in the right or the wrong. I even have to help him in
crimes.
People in Europe are grateful to the USA but! they will not support it
for ever in doing things they know are illegal and inhuman.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>What riles is the 'if it weren't for us, you'd be speaking German' jibe.
>Let no one forget the sacrifice of the United States to guarantee peace and
>freedom. Yet does gratitude necessarily entail blind obediance ? Can one
>not thank the United States, whilst acting to check its moments of madness?
>Isn't that what friends are for ?
You are so right.
An analogy might be:
A friend saves my life.
I therefore have to support him for the rest of that life regardless of
whether he is in the right or the wrong. I even have to help him in
crimes.
People in Europe are grateful to the USA but! they will not support it
for ever in doing things they know are illegal and inhuman.
--
Marie Lewis
Feb 13th 2003, 10:07 pm
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
In article , BJ
writes
>Heard on Fox news this morning;
>"French tanks are designed with six gears, five reverse and one forward
>in case they get attacked in the rear."
>BJ
>(Antispam, drop pants to EMail)
>All outgoing Emails checked for Virus with Norton.
A typical Fox News item. I have nothing but scorn for that network.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>Heard on Fox news this morning;
>"French tanks are designed with six gears, five reverse and one forward
>in case they get attacked in the rear."
>BJ
>(Antispam, drop pants to EMail)
>All outgoing Emails checked for Virus with Norton.
A typical Fox News item. I have nothing but scorn for that network.
--
Marie Lewis
Feb 14th 2003, 12:12 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War without France
> He's also had 12 years to donate weapons to al Qaeda and hasn't.
How would you know?
Instead,
> both Saddam and al Qaeda use weapons donated to them by the United States.
What weapons has the US given Saddam and AL Qaeda in the last 12 years?
> miguel
> --
> Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
How would you know?
Instead,
> both Saddam and al Qaeda use weapons donated to them by the United States.
What weapons has the US given Saddam and AL Qaeda in the last 12 years?
> miguel
> --
> Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
