Visit Tate Modern
Dec 7th 2004, 12:21 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Visit Tate Modern
The Reids wrote:
>
> The explanations you see certainly just read like bullshit to me.
> When people try and explain science they try and do it simply to
> get the point across, with art they use the most obscure language
> they can muster.
I dispute your claim that people trying to explain science try to do it
simply to get the point across. There are just as many pedants in
science as in the field of art. I think the major difference is that the
laws of physics are ground zero for the scientists whereas the field of
art essentially is grounded in opinion.
The twice-a-month-docent training I receive puts me both at the mercy of
and enthralled by curators and guest lectures. I can say unequivocally
that it isn't necessary to talk/write in "artspeak" to speak
intelligently about art. Frankly, I find it a greater expression of
someone's intelligence for them to explain complex or demanding topics
simply than for someone to deal with the same topics in a complicated way.
I think two issues create a lot of antipathy towards contemporary art:
time and a low tolerance for uncertainty. The average person spends
three seconds only looking at a work of art in a museum. That's too
little time to appreciate a representational work, but, at least, the
viewer can recognize the figure in that brief span. It's a perfectly
worthless amount of time to deal with a piece of contemporary art. I
think that people reject a lot of contemporary art because they don't
understand it and don't feel comfortable with their uncertainty. Taking
this discomfort further, I'm convinced that many people suspect the
artist is telling an inside joke that they don't get or that they are
the butt of the joke itself.
I'd much rather museum visitors make a personal connection to
contemporary art -- however at odds with a curatorial interpretation --
than to stay away from contemporary art. Admittedly, as a docent, I'm in
the educational department and there's often a divide between the points
of view of education departments and curatorial staffs world-wide.
Heading off to the Hirshhorn shortly. Training day today!
Karen Selwyn
>
> The explanations you see certainly just read like bullshit to me.
> When people try and explain science they try and do it simply to
> get the point across, with art they use the most obscure language
> they can muster.
I dispute your claim that people trying to explain science try to do it
simply to get the point across. There are just as many pedants in
science as in the field of art. I think the major difference is that the
laws of physics are ground zero for the scientists whereas the field of
art essentially is grounded in opinion.
The twice-a-month-docent training I receive puts me both at the mercy of
and enthralled by curators and guest lectures. I can say unequivocally
that it isn't necessary to talk/write in "artspeak" to speak
intelligently about art. Frankly, I find it a greater expression of
someone's intelligence for them to explain complex or demanding topics
simply than for someone to deal with the same topics in a complicated way.
I think two issues create a lot of antipathy towards contemporary art:
time and a low tolerance for uncertainty. The average person spends
three seconds only looking at a work of art in a museum. That's too
little time to appreciate a representational work, but, at least, the
viewer can recognize the figure in that brief span. It's a perfectly
worthless amount of time to deal with a piece of contemporary art. I
think that people reject a lot of contemporary art because they don't
understand it and don't feel comfortable with their uncertainty. Taking
this discomfort further, I'm convinced that many people suspect the
artist is telling an inside joke that they don't get or that they are
the butt of the joke itself.
I'd much rather museum visitors make a personal connection to
contemporary art -- however at odds with a curatorial interpretation --
than to stay away from contemporary art. Admittedly, as a docent, I'm in
the educational department and there's often a divide between the points
of view of education departments and curatorial staffs world-wide.
Heading off to the Hirshhorn shortly. Training day today!
Karen Selwyn
Dec 7th 2004, 4:35 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Visit Tate Modern
On Tue, 7 Dec 2004 12:09:56 +0000, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:
><[email protected]> wrote:
>[]
>> My criteria is, would I want to own it, if I was given it free? All
>> too often the answer is NO.
>That's an odd criterion. I wouldn't have the space for most of the
>Jackson Pollocks that I like. Besides, 'An oak tree', if it attracts you
>(I like it, actually)- is dependent on its place. Maybe there would be
>somewhere in the house I could position it that would make it as
>effective- but I doubt it.
It's my criteria, you get your own. I didn't mentioned where I would
keep it. Most masterpieces spend their days unseen in bank vaults.
--
Martin
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) wrote:
><[email protected]> wrote:
>[]
>> My criteria is, would I want to own it, if I was given it free? All
>> too often the answer is NO.
>That's an odd criterion. I wouldn't have the space for most of the
>Jackson Pollocks that I like. Besides, 'An oak tree', if it attracts you
>(I like it, actually)- is dependent on its place. Maybe there would be
>somewhere in the house I could position it that would make it as
>effective- but I doubt it.
It's my criteria, you get your own. I didn't mentioned where I would
keep it. Most masterpieces spend their days unseen in bank vaults.
--
Martin
Dec 7th 2004, 9:38 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Visit Tate Modern
Following up to Karen Selwyn
>I think two issues create a lot of antipathy towards contemporary art:
>time and a low tolerance for uncertainty. The average person spends
>three seconds only looking at a work of art in a museum. That's too
>little time to appreciate a representational work, but, at least, the
>viewer can recognize the figure in that brief span. It's a perfectly
>worthless amount of time to deal with a piece of contemporary art. I
>think that people reject a lot of contemporary art because they don't
>understand it and don't feel comfortable with their uncertainty. Taking
>this discomfort further, I'm convinced that many people suspect the
>artist is telling an inside joke that they don't get or that they are
>the butt of the joke itself.
I don't think i'm uncomfortable with my uncertainty. The glass of
water certainly does appear to be an inside joke!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>I think two issues create a lot of antipathy towards contemporary art:
>time and a low tolerance for uncertainty. The average person spends
>three seconds only looking at a work of art in a museum. That's too
>little time to appreciate a representational work, but, at least, the
>viewer can recognize the figure in that brief span. It's a perfectly
>worthless amount of time to deal with a piece of contemporary art. I
>think that people reject a lot of contemporary art because they don't
>understand it and don't feel comfortable with their uncertainty. Taking
>this discomfort further, I'm convinced that many people suspect the
>artist is telling an inside joke that they don't get or that they are
>the butt of the joke itself.
I don't think i'm uncomfortable with my uncertainty. The glass of
water certainly does appear to be an inside joke!
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Dec 8th 2004, 2:44 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Visit Tate Modern
The Reids wrote:
>
> I've read art books, used to paint and read art mags.
Which puts you in an entirely differenct category with repect to
uncertainty -- the topic in another post.
> Airconditionig units or other boxes that are not exhibits
Funny you should mention that! Sunday, I visited the adjunct museum of
the Smithsonian's Air and Space museum, a huge airplane hangar located
near Dulles Airport that is filled with historical planes. One small
area was devoted to a display of airplane engines. As we approached this
area, another member of our group -- a graphic designer -- asked her
pilot husband if he'd like to have one of those engines to display as a
a work of art. I picked one that I coveted -- one that could have been
the product of a contemporary sculptor. Plunked down on a pedestal in an
art museum, no one would have would have felt this utilitarian object
was out of place. Obviously, context and intent are important issues,
but I really can't add anything to the debate over the nature of art
that hasn't been said many times over through the decades.
Karen Selwyn
>
> I've read art books, used to paint and read art mags.
Which puts you in an entirely differenct category with repect to
uncertainty -- the topic in another post.
> Airconditionig units or other boxes that are not exhibits
Funny you should mention that! Sunday, I visited the adjunct museum of
the Smithsonian's Air and Space museum, a huge airplane hangar located
near Dulles Airport that is filled with historical planes. One small
area was devoted to a display of airplane engines. As we approached this
area, another member of our group -- a graphic designer -- asked her
pilot husband if he'd like to have one of those engines to display as a
a work of art. I picked one that I coveted -- one that could have been
the product of a contemporary sculptor. Plunked down on a pedestal in an
art museum, no one would have would have felt this utilitarian object
was out of place. Obviously, context and intent are important issues,
but I really can't add anything to the debate over the nature of art
that hasn't been said many times over through the decades.
Karen Selwyn
Dec 8th 2004, 4:19 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Visit Tate Modern
Following up to Karen Selwyn
>> I've read art books, used to paint and read art mags.
>Which puts you in an entirely differenct category with repect to
>uncertainty -- the topic in another post.
I suspect I will never make my mind up about art, perhaps I don't
need to.
>Funny you should mention that! Sunday, I visited the adjunct museum of
>the Smithsonian's Air and Space museum, a huge airplane hangar located
>near Dulles Airport that is filled with historical planes. One small
>area was devoted to a display of airplane engines.
I think I often appreciate the beauty of practical things more
than contrived art objects, the ones that look right often seem
to work best, although I don't know to what extent we are
conditioned in what a type of object should look like by exposure
to the successful ones?
I'll stop before I start on about steam engines :-)
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>> I've read art books, used to paint and read art mags.
>Which puts you in an entirely differenct category with repect to
>uncertainty -- the topic in another post.
I suspect I will never make my mind up about art, perhaps I don't
need to.
>Funny you should mention that! Sunday, I visited the adjunct museum of
>the Smithsonian's Air and Space museum, a huge airplane hangar located
>near Dulles Airport that is filled with historical planes. One small
>area was devoted to a display of airplane engines.
I think I often appreciate the beauty of practical things more
than contrived art objects, the ones that look right often seem
to work best, although I don't know to what extent we are
conditioned in what a type of object should look like by exposure
to the successful ones?
I'll stop before I start on about steam engines :-)
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Dec 8th 2004, 8:41 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Visit Tate Modern
On Wed, 08 Dec 2004 17:19:49 +0000, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'll stop before I start on about steam engines :-)
better get your anorak.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>I'll stop before I start on about steam engines :-)
better get your anorak.
--
Martin
