US government demands air travellers' personal data
Feb 26th 2003, 1:57 pm
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
scott wrote:
> "Miguel Cruz" wrote:
>> More importantly, if the UN fails to agree with the US government, then
>> it is "useless". Because, as we all know, everyone else's judgment is
>> wrong and the Bush administration is invariably correct.
> I wonder where these false conclusions came from. Very few, if any, said
> any of the above. Are you guys going to keep making stuff up?
One person you may have heard of who said it was George W. Bush. I believe
the word he used was "irrelevant."
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> "Miguel Cruz" wrote:
>> More importantly, if the UN fails to agree with the US government, then
>> it is "useless". Because, as we all know, everyone else's judgment is
>> wrong and the Bush administration is invariably correct.
> I wonder where these false conclusions came from. Very few, if any, said
> any of the above. Are you guys going to keep making stuff up?
One person you may have heard of who said it was George W. Bush. I believe
the word he used was "irrelevant."
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Feb 26th 2003, 6:59 pm
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:38:13 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>ellie wrote:
>> When I used to travel frequently Boston->London->Dublin back in the late
>> 80's and early 90's, my suitcase and handbag were often opened and
>> inspected at Heathrow.
>I've been to a fair number of airports, and without a doubt the London ones
>stand out as having the most hostile and intrusive immigration and customs
>people. It's the only place I've seen them reduce people to tears on a
>regular basis, and the only place I've had to sit for half an hour while
>customs officers read through andf discussed all the personal letters I was
>carrying (having accumulated a fair number at Poste Restante along a 6-month
>trip) from my girlfriend, parents, and others.
>miguel
As a UK passport holder immigration is not an issue, but in my
experience British customs officers are some of the nastiest of the
species. Three of them spent 45 minutes taking my car apart at Dover
once.
--==++AJC++==--
>ellie wrote:
>> When I used to travel frequently Boston->London->Dublin back in the late
>> 80's and early 90's, my suitcase and handbag were often opened and
>> inspected at Heathrow.
>I've been to a fair number of airports, and without a doubt the London ones
>stand out as having the most hostile and intrusive immigration and customs
>people. It's the only place I've seen them reduce people to tears on a
>regular basis, and the only place I've had to sit for half an hour while
>customs officers read through andf discussed all the personal letters I was
>carrying (having accumulated a fair number at Poste Restante along a 6-month
>trip) from my girlfriend, parents, and others.
>miguel
As a UK passport holder immigration is not an issue, but in my
experience British customs officers are some of the nastiest of the
species. Three of them spent 45 minutes taking my car apart at Dover
once.
--==++AJC++==--
Feb 26th 2003, 7:35 pm
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
In article , AJC
wrote:
> As a UK passport holder immigration is not an issue, but in my
> experience British customs officers are some of the nastiest of the
> species. Three of them spent 45 minutes taking my car apart at Dover
> once.
Reverse is true. US customs are the nice guys while their passport
stampers suck big time.
wrote:
> As a UK passport holder immigration is not an issue, but in my
> experience British customs officers are some of the nastiest of the
> species. Three of them spent 45 minutes taking my car apart at Dover
> once.
Reverse is true. US customs are the nice guys while their passport
stampers suck big time.
Mar 1st 2003, 4:53 am
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
"JF Mezei" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Jo Stoller wrote:
> That is appaling. I suspect Canada and others will be forced to follow
suit.
Guess what?
That's right, the airlaines are being forced to provide this info under pain
of large fines. I saw an interview with an airline rep who mentioned the
figure, but I've misplaced it in memory. Thousands of $$ though, per person.
An airplane full of non-disclosed passengers would have required a huge
payment to the US Gov't.
Since I regularly travel to the USA on an American carrier (UA), they have
had *my* info long ago.
I recently travelled south on a Canadian airline (AC) and found that my
entire itinerary was keyed to my passport #; didn't need my ticket, didn't
need my credit card, didn't need my hotel confirmation - they put in my #
and everything I was doing, including my seat selection was on screen.
And it *ALL* gets reported to the US authorities. When I go through US
Immigration, they regularly ask about colleagues who may be travelling with
me (even when they are not). It's all on file, keyed to my ID.
Makes a second secret passport from some other country sound pretty
attractive.
--
Commander Bob
news:[email protected]...
> Jo Stoller wrote:
> That is appaling. I suspect Canada and others will be forced to follow
suit.
Guess what?
That's right, the airlaines are being forced to provide this info under pain
of large fines. I saw an interview with an airline rep who mentioned the
figure, but I've misplaced it in memory. Thousands of $$ though, per person.
An airplane full of non-disclosed passengers would have required a huge
payment to the US Gov't.
Since I regularly travel to the USA on an American carrier (UA), they have
had *my* info long ago.
I recently travelled south on a Canadian airline (AC) and found that my
entire itinerary was keyed to my passport #; didn't need my ticket, didn't
need my credit card, didn't need my hotel confirmation - they put in my #
and everything I was doing, including my seat selection was on screen.
And it *ALL* gets reported to the US authorities. When I go through US
Immigration, they regularly ask about colleagues who may be travelling with
me (even when they are not). It's all on file, keyed to my ID.
Makes a second secret passport from some other country sound pretty
attractive.
--
Commander Bob
Mar 1st 2003, 8:52 am
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
Michael Barrett wrote:
>
> "JF Mezei" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Jo Stoller wrote:
> >
> > That is appaling. I suspect Canada and others will be forced to follow
> suit.
> >
>
> Guess what?
> That's right, the airlaines are being forced to provide this info under pain
> of large fines. I saw an interview with an airline rep who mentioned the
> figure, but I've misplaced it in memory. Thousands of $$ though, per person.
> An airplane full of non-disclosed passengers would have required a huge
> payment to the US Gov't.
> Since I regularly travel to the USA on an American carrier (UA), they have
> had *my* info long ago.
> I recently travelled south on a Canadian airline (AC) and found that my
> entire itinerary was keyed to my passport #; didn't need my ticket, didn't
> need my credit card, didn't need my hotel confirmation - they put in my #
> and everything I was doing, including my seat selection was on screen.
> And it *ALL* gets reported to the US authorities. When I go through US
> Immigration, they regularly ask about colleagues who may be travelling with
> me (even when they are not). It's all on file, keyed to my ID.
>
> Makes a second secret passport from some other country sound pretty
> attractive.
And the new "Department of Home Security" was just "officially"
inaugurated last week! (Think what we have to look forward to.... the
death of American liberty, IMO.)
>
> --
> Commander Bob
>
> "JF Mezei" wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > Jo Stoller wrote:
> >
> > That is appaling. I suspect Canada and others will be forced to follow
> suit.
> >
>
> Guess what?
> That's right, the airlaines are being forced to provide this info under pain
> of large fines. I saw an interview with an airline rep who mentioned the
> figure, but I've misplaced it in memory. Thousands of $$ though, per person.
> An airplane full of non-disclosed passengers would have required a huge
> payment to the US Gov't.
> Since I regularly travel to the USA on an American carrier (UA), they have
> had *my* info long ago.
> I recently travelled south on a Canadian airline (AC) and found that my
> entire itinerary was keyed to my passport #; didn't need my ticket, didn't
> need my credit card, didn't need my hotel confirmation - they put in my #
> and everything I was doing, including my seat selection was on screen.
> And it *ALL* gets reported to the US authorities. When I go through US
> Immigration, they regularly ask about colleagues who may be travelling with
> me (even when they are not). It's all on file, keyed to my ID.
>
> Makes a second secret passport from some other country sound pretty
> attractive.
And the new "Department of Home Security" was just "officially"
inaugurated last week! (Think what we have to look forward to.... the
death of American liberty, IMO.)
>
> --
> Commander Bob
Mar 3rd 2003, 2:44 am
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
wouldn't it be amazing if a terrorist act initiates "1984"? Safety,
Security, BigBrother is watching. BigBrother LOVES you...
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Michael Barrett wrote:
> >
> > "JF Mezei" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Jo Stoller wrote:
> > >
> > > That is appaling. I suspect Canada and others will be forced to follow
> > suit.
> > >
> >
> > Guess what?
> > That's right, the airlaines are being forced to provide this info under
pain
> > of large fines. I saw an interview with an airline rep who mentioned the
> > figure, but I've misplaced it in memory. Thousands of $$ though, per
person.
> > An airplane full of non-disclosed passengers would have required a huge
> > payment to the US Gov't.
> > Since I regularly travel to the USA on an American carrier (UA), they
have
> > had *my* info long ago.
> > I recently travelled south on a Canadian airline (AC) and found that my
> > entire itinerary was keyed to my passport #; didn't need my ticket,
didn't
> > need my credit card, didn't need my hotel confirmation - they put in my
#
> > and everything I was doing, including my seat selection was on screen.
> > And it *ALL* gets reported to the US authorities. When I go through US
> > Immigration, they regularly ask about colleagues who may be travelling
with
> > me (even when they are not). It's all on file, keyed to my ID.
> >
> > Makes a second secret passport from some other country sound pretty
> > attractive.
> And the new "Department of Home Security" was just "officially"
> inaugurated last week! (Think what we have to look forward to.... the
> death of American liberty, IMO.)
> >
> > --
> > Commander Bob
Security, BigBrother is watching. BigBrother LOVES you...
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Michael Barrett wrote:
> >
> > "JF Mezei" wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > Jo Stoller wrote:
> > >
> > > That is appaling. I suspect Canada and others will be forced to follow
> > suit.
> > >
> >
> > Guess what?
> > That's right, the airlaines are being forced to provide this info under
pain
> > of large fines. I saw an interview with an airline rep who mentioned the
> > figure, but I've misplaced it in memory. Thousands of $$ though, per
person.
> > An airplane full of non-disclosed passengers would have required a huge
> > payment to the US Gov't.
> > Since I regularly travel to the USA on an American carrier (UA), they
have
> > had *my* info long ago.
> > I recently travelled south on a Canadian airline (AC) and found that my
> > entire itinerary was keyed to my passport #; didn't need my ticket,
didn't
> > need my credit card, didn't need my hotel confirmation - they put in my
#
> > and everything I was doing, including my seat selection was on screen.
> > And it *ALL* gets reported to the US authorities. When I go through US
> > Immigration, they regularly ask about colleagues who may be travelling
with
> > me (even when they are not). It's all on file, keyed to my ID.
> >
> > Makes a second secret passport from some other country sound pretty
> > attractive.
> And the new "Department of Home Security" was just "officially"
> inaugurated last week! (Think what we have to look forward to.... the
> death of American liberty, IMO.)
> >
> > --
> > Commander Bob
Mar 9th 2003, 8:02 am
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
Tony wrote:
> If there's one thing that really bothers me is that anybody who disagrees
> with US foreign policy, or says anything whatsoever that doesn't heap praise
> on the US government, is labelled as anti-american.
GOP extremists didn't consider themselves anti-American when
opposing President Clinton, from Kosovo to Monica and all
points around. Fox News Channel also broadcast jokes from
the UK or Canada about Clinton during Monicagate at the end
of "Special Report With Brit Hume", they wern't anti-American
since it was Clinton.
> The current anti-french sentiment stems from the fact that the US expects
> all countries to rubber-stamp any resolution the US puts before the United
> Nations.
The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
gld
> If there's one thing that really bothers me is that anybody who disagrees
> with US foreign policy, or says anything whatsoever that doesn't heap praise
> on the US government, is labelled as anti-american.
GOP extremists didn't consider themselves anti-American when
opposing President Clinton, from Kosovo to Monica and all
points around. Fox News Channel also broadcast jokes from
the UK or Canada about Clinton during Monicagate at the end
of "Special Report With Brit Hume", they wern't anti-American
since it was Clinton.
> The current anti-french sentiment stems from the fact that the US expects
> all countries to rubber-stamp any resolution the US puts before the United
> Nations.
The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
gld
Mar 9th 2003, 8:08 am
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
Will this also apply to "homecoming" US citizens and permanent
residents or will American Qaeds like Walker-Lind, Padilla and
the Lackwanna 8 from suburban Buffalo or Osama's personal
secretary, naturalized citizen Wahdi El-Hage of Texas, still be
able to waltz through like always?
By the way, one of the two Lackawanna 8 members at large
was killed in that Predator attack in Yemen last November.
Interesting how coverage that one of the targets was a born
American was kept to a minimum ...
gld
residents or will American Qaeds like Walker-Lind, Padilla and
the Lackwanna 8 from suburban Buffalo or Osama's personal
secretary, naturalized citizen Wahdi El-Hage of Texas, still be
able to waltz through like always?
By the way, one of the two Lackawanna 8 members at large
was killed in that Predator attack in Yemen last November.
Interesting how coverage that one of the targets was a born
American was kept to a minimum ...
gld
Mar 9th 2003, 9:29 am
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
"Gary L. Dare" wrote:
>
>
> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
Here"!
>
>
> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
Here"!
Mar 9th 2003, 7:33 pm
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
>"Gary L. Dare" wrote:
>> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
>> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
>You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
>scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
>Here"!
Yesterday I spoke on the telephone to an American friend and to my
brother in law, who lives in Los Angeles.
Neither had any idea that the whole of the UK population was NOT
supporting Tony Blair.
Both are registered Republicans but both have been utterly appalled by
the anti-French propaganda.
--
Marie Lewis
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
>"Gary L. Dare" wrote:
>> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
>> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
>You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
>scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
>Here"!
Yesterday I spoke on the telephone to an American friend and to my
brother in law, who lives in Los Angeles.
Neither had any idea that the whole of the UK population was NOT
supporting Tony Blair.
Both are registered Republicans but both have been utterly appalled by
the anti-French propaganda.
--
Marie Lewis
Mar 9th 2003, 10:08 pm
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
Marie Lewis wrote:
> In article ,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
>
>> "Gary L. Dare" wrote:
>>> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
>>> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
>> You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
>> scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
>> Here"!
>
>
>
> Yesterday I spoke on the telephone to an American friend and to my
> brother in law, who lives in Los Angeles.
>
> Neither had any idea that the whole of the UK population was NOT
> supporting Tony Blair.
How can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
TV news station and in every major newspaper.
> In article ,
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
>
>> "Gary L. Dare" wrote:
>>> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
>>> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
>> You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
>> scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
>> Here"!
>
>
>
> Yesterday I spoke on the telephone to an American friend and to my
> brother in law, who lives in Los Angeles.
>
> Neither had any idea that the whole of the UK population was NOT
> supporting Tony Blair.
How can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
TV news station and in every major newspaper.
Mar 9th 2003, 11:22 pm
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
In article , ellie
writes
>ow can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
>including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
>TV news station and in every major newspaper.
My brother in law and his wife do not watch TV and my friend watches
it very rarely. Nor do they have time to read newspapers very much.
--
Marie Lewis
writes
>ow can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
>including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
>TV news station and in every major newspaper.
My brother in law and his wife do not watch TV and my friend watches
it very rarely. Nor do they have time to read newspapers very much.
--
Marie Lewis
Mar 10th 2003, 5:12 am
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
ellie wrote:
>
> Marie Lewis wrote:
> > In article ,
> > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> "Gary L. Dare" wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
> >>> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
> >>
> >>
> >> You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
> >> scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
> >> Here"!
> >
> >
> >
> > Yesterday I spoke on the telephone to an American friend and to my
> > brother in law, who lives in Los Angeles.
> >
> > Neither had any idea that the whole of the UK population was NOT
> > supporting Tony Blair.
>
> How can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
> including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
> TV news station and in every major newspaper.
Define "coverage" - I, too, live in Los Angeles. It's true, if you
really HUNT for them, you can find a few balanced reports, but most
reports on the media have very much played down the opposition. (And
how many people watch anything but "News at 11" on one of the major
network channels?)
>
> Marie Lewis wrote:
> > In article ,
> > "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> "Gary L. Dare" wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The Bush administration is also externalizing opposition so that
> >>> rising domestic dissent can be painted as siding with foreigners.
> >>
> >>
> >> You're right, and it's that tactic so beloved of totalitarianism that
> >> scares those of us who do not so sanguinely believe "It Can't Happen
> >> Here"!
> >
> >
> >
> > Yesterday I spoke on the telephone to an American friend and to my
> > brother in law, who lives in Los Angeles.
> >
> > Neither had any idea that the whole of the UK population was NOT
> > supporting Tony Blair.
>
> How can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
> including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
> TV news station and in every major newspaper.
Define "coverage" - I, too, live in Los Angeles. It's true, if you
really HUNT for them, you can find a few balanced reports, but most
reports on the media have very much played down the opposition. (And
how many people watch anything but "News at 11" on one of the major
network channels?)
Mar 10th 2003, 10:40 am
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: US government demands air travellers' personal data
Marie Lewis wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article , ellie
> writes
> >ow can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
> >including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
> >TV news station and in every major newspaper.
> My brother in law and his wife do not watch TV and my friend watches
> it very rarely. Nor do they have time to read newspapers very much.
Ummm... could that be a contributing factor as to why they were uninformed?
How did they get the anti-French propaganda? Word of mouth?
---
DFM
news:[email protected]...
> In article , ellie
> writes
> >ow can this be? There's been coverage of the anti-war protests,
> >including those in England, on every TV network news program, on every
> >TV news station and in every major newspaper.
> My brother in law and his wife do not watch TV and my friend watches
> it very rarely. Nor do they have time to read newspapers very much.
Ummm... could that be a contributing factor as to why they were uninformed?
How did they get the anti-French propaganda? Word of mouth?
---
DFM
