The US election is over. Can we get back to travel issues?
Nov 8th 2004, 9:27 pm
#16
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
On 08 Nov 2004 19:38:26 GMT, [email protected]ntiSpam (Aviday Ogelvay)
wrote:
>>A tutorial that a traveler might take to "learn"
>>a language for a trip will often tend to teach us to say:
>> "Hello sir, I'd like to order two glasses of beer please".
>> A local usually just says "two beers?"
>So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone crazy if I had tried
>memorizing a phrase like, "Hello, may I please have two beers?" But in a matter
>of seconds I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
Yeah, I did the same in Poland (where not much english is spoken).
Went to a little fishing village, and forced myself to learn as much
as possible for the rest of the trip. Polish pronounciation is very
difficult, with a nasty combination of rolled r's, and nasalised
sound, plus words completely devoid of vowels.
Just to say 'thank you' is "Dziekuje", pronounced "dzheihnkooyeh" or
something.
---
DFM
wrote:
>>A tutorial that a traveler might take to "learn"
>>a language for a trip will often tend to teach us to say:
>> "Hello sir, I'd like to order two glasses of beer please".
>> A local usually just says "two beers?"
>So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone crazy if I had tried
>memorizing a phrase like, "Hello, may I please have two beers?" But in a matter
>of seconds I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
Yeah, I did the same in Poland (where not much english is spoken).
Went to a little fishing village, and forced myself to learn as much
as possible for the rest of the trip. Polish pronounciation is very
difficult, with a nasty combination of rolled r's, and nasalised
sound, plus words completely devoid of vowels.
Just to say 'thank you' is "Dziekuje", pronounced "dzheihnkooyeh" or
something.
---
DFM
Nov 8th 2004, 9:30 pm
#17
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
On 8 Nov 2004 19:48:32 -0800, [email protected] (Bigben)
wrote:
>Most people also appreciate you making the attempt to communicate with
>them in their native tongue. I believe that you should always learn
>survival phrases before you travel. While you are indulging yourself
>in your beer at the local pub, take the effort to emerge yourself in
>the local language and talk with a local or two.
I agree wholeheartedly, but don't always practice it. In The
Netherlands I don't usually bother, and also in Scandinavia and the
German parts of Switzerland. Anywhere that english is not extensively
spoken, a few basic words are very useful to have.
---
DFM
wrote:
>Most people also appreciate you making the attempt to communicate with
>them in their native tongue. I believe that you should always learn
>survival phrases before you travel. While you are indulging yourself
>in your beer at the local pub, take the effort to emerge yourself in
>the local language and talk with a local or two.
I agree wholeheartedly, but don't always practice it. In The
Netherlands I don't usually bother, and also in Scandinavia and the
German parts of Switzerland. Anywhere that english is not extensively
spoken, a few basic words are very useful to have.
---
DFM
Nov 8th 2004, 10:51 pm
#18
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
"John Owens" wrote
| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
| Aah the essentials of life.
| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
Toilet (sex-specific).
Owain
| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
| Aah the essentials of life.
| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
Toilet (sex-specific).
Owain
Nov 8th 2004, 11:39 pm
#19
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
[email protected] (Bigben) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
> [email protected] (me) wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
[snip]
> > I spent two weeks in a very small town in Italy where I'm not
> > sure anyone spoke english. We shopped for groceries, traveled around,
> > went to restaurants, all without speaking any functional italian.
> > I'm sure some day I'll run into a situation which is dire due to my
> > lack of language skills, but as of yet....
>
> I have also traveled to places where I did not speak the local
> language. Although I was able to provide for my basic necessities like
> food and lodging, I found that touring to see the local sites was not
> as satisfying as being able to experience the local people and
> culture. Learning the local language does open up a wider appreciation
> for the places you visit by allowing you to know the people.
There is no doubt that knowing the local language can allow for
a much greater interaction and immersion in the local culture. But
logistical realities of learning every language to which one might
visit are beyond most of our capabilities. The screed was inspired
by someone asking a question about being able to functionally visit
a place without knowing the language. You can engage a location
quite well without knowing the local language. That experience
will always be improved by an ever increasing knowledge of the language
and customs.
>
> Most people also appreciate you making the attempt to communicate with
> them in their native tongue. I believe that you should always learn
> survival phrases before you travel. While you are indulging yourself
> in your beer at the local pub, take the effort to emerge yourself in
> the local language and talk with a local or two.
There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
phrase"?)
> [email protected] (me) wrote in message news:<[email protected] om>...
[snip]
> > I spent two weeks in a very small town in Italy where I'm not
> > sure anyone spoke english. We shopped for groceries, traveled around,
> > went to restaurants, all without speaking any functional italian.
> > I'm sure some day I'll run into a situation which is dire due to my
> > lack of language skills, but as of yet....
>
> I have also traveled to places where I did not speak the local
> language. Although I was able to provide for my basic necessities like
> food and lodging, I found that touring to see the local sites was not
> as satisfying as being able to experience the local people and
> culture. Learning the local language does open up a wider appreciation
> for the places you visit by allowing you to know the people.
There is no doubt that knowing the local language can allow for
a much greater interaction and immersion in the local culture. But
logistical realities of learning every language to which one might
visit are beyond most of our capabilities. The screed was inspired
by someone asking a question about being able to functionally visit
a place without knowing the language. You can engage a location
quite well without knowing the local language. That experience
will always be improved by an ever increasing knowledge of the language
and customs.
>
> Most people also appreciate you making the attempt to communicate with
> them in their native tongue. I believe that you should always learn
> survival phrases before you travel. While you are indulging yourself
> in your beer at the local pub, take the effort to emerge yourself in
> the local language and talk with a local or two.
There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
phrase"?)
Nov 9th 2004, 12:09 am
#20
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
John Owens <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > A local usually just says "two beers?"
>> >
>> So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone crazy if I had
> tried
>> memorizing a phrase like, "Hello, may I please have two beers?" But in a
> matter
>> of seconds I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
> Aah the essentials of life.
> My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
While I'm actually trying to learn German well enough to converse, fuer mich:
Ein Bier und ein Glas Wein, bitte.
and don't forget:
Vielen Dank!
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
>> >
>> > A local usually just says "two beers?"
>> >
>> So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone crazy if I had
> tried
>> memorizing a phrase like, "Hello, may I please have two beers?" But in a
> matter
>> of seconds I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
> Aah the essentials of life.
> My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
While I'm actually trying to learn German well enough to converse, fuer mich:
Ein Bier und ein Glas Wein, bitte.
and don't forget:
Vielen Dank!
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Nov 9th 2004, 3:37 am
#21
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
On 9 Nov 2004 04:39:28 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:
> There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
>two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
>is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
>phrase"?)
Pointing to the beer tap, and indicating "2" with the other hand aint
rocket science, and is unlikely to confuse! Plus anywhere in Europe
saying beer or pivo is likely to see you through!
---
DFM
> There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
>two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
>is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
>phrase"?)
Pointing to the beer tap, and indicating "2" with the other hand aint
rocket science, and is unlikely to confuse! Plus anywhere in Europe
saying beer or pivo is likely to see you through!
---
DFM
Nov 9th 2004, 3:41 am
#22
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:51:48 -0000, "Owain"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"John Owens" wrote
>| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
>| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
>| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
>| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
>| Aah the essentials of life.
>| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
>Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
>the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
>Toilet (sex-specific).
And make absolutely certain when you are in Ireland, and have a belly
full of booze, you don't confuse Mna with Men!
*looks embarrased*
---
DFM
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"John Owens" wrote
>| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
>| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
>| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
>| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
>| Aah the essentials of life.
>| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
>Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
>the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
>Toilet (sex-specific).
And make absolutely certain when you are in Ireland, and have a belly
full of booze, you don't confuse Mna with Men!
*looks embarrased*
---
DFM
Nov 9th 2004, 3:53 am
#23
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
Deep Frayed Morgues <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>And make absolutely certain when you are in Ireland, and have a belly
>full of booze, you don't confuse Mna with Men!
Hey, even when I'm sober, the mná confuse this man.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>And make absolutely certain when you are in Ireland, and have a belly
>full of booze, you don't confuse Mna with Men!
Hey, even when I'm sober, the mná confuse this man.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
Nov 9th 2004, 3:54 am
#24
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:51:48 -0000, "Owain"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"John Owens" wrote
>| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
>| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
>| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
>| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
>| Aah the essentials of life.
>| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
>Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
>the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
>Toilet (sex-specific).
WC will pretty much cover all the local words for toilet. However, the
pronunciation of the "W" will vary.
In Italy, toilets are often called "Vahter" (with the "ah" as the "a"
in father.) This is derived from "water closet": The pronunciation is
Italian for "water" and Italians often confuse the modifier with the
thing modified, because they think the first word in a phrase must be
the most important, as it would usually be in Italian. Ergo, "golf"
means a sweater, "smoking" means a tuxedo, and so on.
So, in Italy, you can just ask for the vahter.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"John Owens" wrote
>| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
>| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
>| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
>| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
>| Aah the essentials of life.
>| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
>Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
>the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
>Toilet (sex-specific).
WC will pretty much cover all the local words for toilet. However, the
pronunciation of the "W" will vary.
In Italy, toilets are often called "Vahter" (with the "ah" as the "a"
in father.) This is derived from "water closet": The pronunciation is
Italian for "water" and Italians often confuse the modifier with the
thing modified, because they think the first word in a phrase must be
the most important, as it would usually be in Italian. Ergo, "golf"
means a sweater, "smoking" means a tuxedo, and so on.
So, in Italy, you can just ask for the vahter.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup
Nov 9th 2004, 5:00 am
#25
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
"Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote
in message news:[email protected]...
> On 9 Nov 2004 04:39:28 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:
> > There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
> >two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
> >is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
> >phrase"?)
> Pointing to the beer tap, and indicating "2" with the other hand aint
> rocket science, and is unlikely to confuse! Plus anywhere in Europe
> saying beer or pivo is likely to see you through!
> ---
> DFM
Just be a little careful about which two fingers you hold up. Thumb and
forefinger means 2 in most places, while two fingers up means something
entirely different (and might get you more than a beer!)
Tom
in message news:[email protected]...
> On 9 Nov 2004 04:39:28 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:
> > There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
> >two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
> >is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
> >phrase"?)
> Pointing to the beer tap, and indicating "2" with the other hand aint
> rocket science, and is unlikely to confuse! Plus anywhere in Europe
> saying beer or pivo is likely to see you through!
> ---
> DFM
Just be a little careful about which two fingers you hold up. Thumb and
forefinger means 2 in most places, while two fingers up means something
entirely different (and might get you more than a beer!)
Tom
Nov 9th 2004, 5:26 am
#26
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
"> >A tutorial that a traveler might take to "learn"
>>a language for a trip will often tend to teach us to say:
>> "Hello sir, I'd like to order two glasses of beer please".
>> A local usually just says "two beers?"
> So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone crazy if I had
> tried
> memorizing a phrase like, "Hello, may I please have two beers?" But in a
> matter
> of seconds I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
I was so frustrated learning German at the Goethe Institute here in the U.S.
When we spoke we had to do the full sentence with everything right --
articles and adjectives in their proper endings--so it took me forever to
get through a sentence and I felt like an idiot. When I studied in Germany,
I was forced to communicate and did the best I could. I knew I was
slaughtering the language, but people understood me and my confidence went a
lot further!
>>a language for a trip will often tend to teach us to say:
>> "Hello sir, I'd like to order two glasses of beer please".
>> A local usually just says "two beers?"
> So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone crazy if I had
> tried
> memorizing a phrase like, "Hello, may I please have two beers?" But in a
> matter
> of seconds I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
I was so frustrated learning German at the Goethe Institute here in the U.S.
When we spoke we had to do the full sentence with everything right --
articles and adjectives in their proper endings--so it took me forever to
get through a sentence and I felt like an idiot. When I studied in Germany,
I was forced to communicate and did the best I could. I knew I was
slaughtering the language, but people understood me and my confidence went a
lot further!
Nov 9th 2004, 5:33 am
#27
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
Sarah Banick <[email protected]> wrote:
> I was so frustrated learning German at the Goethe Institute here in the U.S.
> When we spoke we had to do the full sentence with everything right --
> articles and adjectives in their proper endings--so it took me forever to
> get through a sentence and I felt like an idiot. When I studied in Germany,
> I was forced to communicate and did the best I could. I knew I was
> slaughtering the language, but people understood me and my confidence went a
> lot further!
Oh, I can relate. I'm studying at the Goethe Institut here in Washington.
I took a couple years of German elsewhere that helps. I do like the immersion
experience, and I hope to go to Germany in the Fall (2005) to study with
them for 2 months.
The problem is, once you get beyond elementary German, it is difficult to find
a class outside of the Goethe INstitut.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
> I was so frustrated learning German at the Goethe Institute here in the U.S.
> When we spoke we had to do the full sentence with everything right --
> articles and adjectives in their proper endings--so it took me forever to
> get through a sentence and I felt like an idiot. When I studied in Germany,
> I was forced to communicate and did the best I could. I knew I was
> slaughtering the language, but people understood me and my confidence went a
> lot further!
Oh, I can relate. I'm studying at the Goethe Institut here in Washington.
I took a couple years of German elsewhere that helps. I do like the immersion
experience, and I hope to go to Germany in the Fall (2005) to study with
them for 2 months.
The problem is, once you get beyond elementary German, it is difficult to find
a class outside of the Goethe INstitut.
--
Julie
**********
Check out my Travel Pages (non-commercial) at
http://www.dragonsholm.org/travel.htm
Nov 9th 2004, 5:56 am
#28
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
Tom Bellhouse wrote:
> "Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>On 9 Nov 2004 04:39:28 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:
>>> There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
>>>two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
>>>is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
>>>phrase"?)
>>Pointing to the beer tap, and indicating "2" with the other hand aint
>>rocket science, and is unlikely to confuse! Plus anywhere in Europe
>>saying beer or pivo is likely to see you through!
>>---
>>DFM
>
>
> Just be a little careful about which two fingers you hold up. Thumb and
> forefinger means 2 in most places, while two fingers up means something
> entirely different (and might get you more than a beer!)
>
> Tom
>
What does it mean?
> "Deep Frayed Morgues" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote
> in message news:[email protected]...
>
>>On 9 Nov 2004 04:39:28 -0800, [email protected] (me) wrote:
>>> There is a vast difference between learning a survival phrase or
>>>two, and knowing enough to "talk with a local or two". (And how
>>>is it I always consider knowing how to order a beer a "survival
>>>phrase"?)
>>Pointing to the beer tap, and indicating "2" with the other hand aint
>>rocket science, and is unlikely to confuse! Plus anywhere in Europe
>>saying beer or pivo is likely to see you through!
>>---
>>DFM
>
>
> Just be a little careful about which two fingers you hold up. Thumb and
> forefinger means 2 in most places, while two fingers up means something
> entirely different (and might get you more than a beer!)
>
> Tom
>
What does it mean?
Nov 9th 2004, 6:07 am
#29
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
Ellie C wrote:
> What does it mean?
Similar to the US middle finger.
> What does it mean?
Similar to the US middle finger.
Nov 9th 2004, 9:12 am
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Traveling without language
On Tue, 09 Nov 2004 17:54:17 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:51:48 -0000, "Owain"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>"John Owens" wrote
>>| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
>>| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
>>| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
>>| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
>>| Aah the essentials of life.
>>| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
>>Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
>>the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
>>Toilet (sex-specific).
>WC will pretty much cover all the local words for toilet. However, the
>pronunciation of the "W" will vary.
>In Italy, toilets are often called "Vahter" (with the "ah" as the "a"
>in father.) This is derived from "water closet": The pronunciation is
>Italian for "water" and Italians often confuse the modifier with the
>thing modified, because they think the first word in a phrase must be
>the most important, as it would usually be in Italian. Ergo, "golf"
>means a sweater, "smoking" means a tuxedo, and so on.
A smoking means a tuxedo all over mainland Europe.
--
Martin
>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004 11:51:48 -0000, "Owain"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>"John Owens" wrote
>>| > So true! During a recent trip to Poland I would have gone
>>| > crazy if I had tried memorizing a phrase like, "Hello,
>>| > may I please have two beers?" But in a matter of seconds
>>| > I learned how to say, "Dwa Piwa." Never failed!
>>| Aah the essentials of life.
>>| My command of German rarely went beyond Drei Bieres Bitte!
>>Beer Pizza Taxi Hotel will work almost anywhere in western Europe. To be on
>>the safe side, one should learn to recognise the local words/signs for
>>Toilet (sex-specific).
>WC will pretty much cover all the local words for toilet. However, the
>pronunciation of the "W" will vary.
>In Italy, toilets are often called "Vahter" (with the "ah" as the "a"
>in father.) This is derived from "water closet": The pronunciation is
>Italian for "water" and Italians often confuse the modifier with the
>thing modified, because they think the first word in a phrase must be
>the most important, as it would usually be in Italian. Ergo, "golf"
>means a sweater, "smoking" means a tuxedo, and so on.
A smoking means a tuxedo all over mainland Europe.
--
Martin
