Hatunen

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:30:41 -0600, erilar
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
    >the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was reserved
    >or not, just that it MIGHT be.

How did it indicate "might"? Did it use the German for "Thid seat
might be reserved Mannheim Munich", or similar?


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Lennart Petersen

"erilar" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > "erilar" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > The German ICEs (some of them anyway) have little electronic
    > > > > signs above the seats.
    > > >
    > > > Which usually tell you the seat MIGHT be reserved and nothing else.
    > > >
    > > Not at all. It tells you if the particular seat is reserved and between
    > > which stations there's a reservation made.
    > > Sometimes however the person behind the reservation doesn't show up but
    > > that's something else.
    > > Remember you must claim the seat at departure, typically at latest
15min,
    > > otherwise the seat is considered free.
    > >
    > >
    > You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
    > the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was reserved
    > or not, just that it MIGHT be.
No. It's not changed have been so all the time to my experience . Either
the display is black and the seat is free. Or the display do show a
reservation between mentioned stations. Possibly it's not working but
never seen it show "might be reserved", for what reason should it be so ?

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > "erilar" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > The German ICEs (some of them anyway) have little electronic
    > > > signs above the seats.
    > >
    > > Which usually tell you the seat MIGHT be reserved and nothing else.
    > >
    > Not at all. It tells you if the particular seat is reserved and between
    > which stations there's a reservation made.
    > Sometimes however the person behind the reservation doesn't show up but
    > that's something else.
    > Remember you must claim the seat at departure, typically at latest 15min,
    > otherwise the seat is considered free.
    >
    >

You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was reserved
or not, just that it MIGHT be. There was no way to tell unless someone
came along with the card for that seat. This happened to me more than
once, as I had to take alternate trains when one I was on was so late I
missed my planned connection. And when I had a reservation, there was
no indication other than the paper I was carrying, either. I travel on
quite a few trains when I'm in Germany for multiple weeks.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Hatunen

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:47:07 -0600, erilar
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "erilar"
    >> > You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
    >> > the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was
    >> > reserved
    >> > or not, just that it MIGHT be.
    >> No. It's not changed have been so all the time to my experience .
    >> Either
    >> the display is black and the seat is free. Or the display do show a
    >> reservation between mentioned stations. Possibly it's not working but
    >> never seen it show "might be reserved", for what reason should it be so ?
    >>
    >They all had these meaningless letters someone told me meant that; I've
    >forgetten what was being abbreviated. But there were no blank ones even
    >when a car was largely empty and seats remained so on a fairly long
    >journey. I'm referring to ICE and other modern trains in Germany, which
    >DID show the display you describe several years ago when I first rode
    >them. Last year and two years ago, however, no trains I rode had proper
    >working displays. The only trains I rode with the beginning and ending
    >reservations indicated were older ones still using physical cards on
    >each compartment.

But I rode ICEs this past June in which they were working
properly.

************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > "erilar"
    > > You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
    > > the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was
    > > reserved
    > > or not, just that it MIGHT be.
    > No. It's not changed have been so all the time to my experience .
    > Either
    > the display is black and the seat is free. Or the display do show a
    > reservation between mentioned stations. Possibly it's not working but
    > never seen it show "might be reserved", for what reason should it be so ?
    >

They all had these meaningless letters someone told me meant that; I've
forgetten what was being abbreviated. But there were no blank ones even
when a car was largely empty and seats remained so on a fairly long
journey. I'm referring to ICE and other modern trains in Germany, which
DID show the display you describe several years ago when I first rode
them. Last year and two years ago, however, no trains I rode had proper
working displays. The only trains I rode with the beginning and ending
reservations indicated were older ones still using physical cards on
each compartment.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Erilar

In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 15:47:07 -0600, erilar
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >In article <[email protected]>, "Lennart Petersen"
    > ><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> "erilar"
    > >> > You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used
    > >> > with
    > >> > the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was
    > >> > reserved
    > >> > or not, just that it MIGHT be.
    > >> No. It's not changed have been so all the time to my experience .
    > >> Either
    > >> the display is black and the seat is free. Or the display do show a
    > >> reservation between mentioned stations. Possibly it's not working
    > >> but
    > >> never seen it show "might be reserved", for what reason should it be
    > >> so ?
    > >>
    > >
    > >They all had these meaningless letters someone told me meant that; I've
    > >forgetten what was being abbreviated. But there were no blank ones even
    > >when a car was largely empty and seats remained so on a fairly long
    > >journey. I'm referring to ICE and other modern trains in Germany, which
    > >DID show the display you describe several years ago when I first rode
    > >them. Last year and two years ago, however, no trains I rode had proper
    > >working displays. The only trains I rode with the beginning and ending
    > >reservations indicated were older ones still using physical cards on
    > >each compartment.
    >
    > But I rode ICEs this past June in which they were working
    > properly.
    >

Maybe they only work during the high tourist season? I usually travel in
September and have not seen working displays in them on my last two
trips, one of which was last September.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar)

You can't reason with someone whose first line of argument
is that reason doesn't count. Isaac Asimov

Erilar's Cave Annex: http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

Ulf Kutzner

erilar schrieb:

    > > > > The German ICEs (some of them anyway) have little electronic
    > > > > signs above the seats.
    > > >
    > > > Which usually tell you the seat MIGHT be reserved and nothing else.
    > > >
    > > Not at all. It tells you if the particular seat is reserved and between
    > > which stations there's a reservation made.
    > > Sometimes however the person behind the reservation doesn't show up but
    > > that's something else.
    > > Remember you must claim the seat at departure, typically at latest 15min,
    > > otherwise the seat is considered free.
    > >
    > >
    >
    > You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
    > the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was reserved
    > or not, just that it MIGHT be. There was no way to tell unless someone
    > came along with the card for that seat. This happened to me more than
    > once

Some of these trains (IC, not ICE) still have paper reservation sheets.

Regards & X-post, ULF

Ulf Kutzner

Lennart Petersen schrieb:

    > > > > > The German ICEs (some of them anyway) have little electronic
    > > > > > signs above the seats.
    > > > >
    > > > > Which usually tell you the seat MIGHT be reserved and nothing else.
    > > > >
    > > > Not at all. It tells you if the particular seat is reserved and between
    > > > which stations there's a reservation made.
    > > > Sometimes however the person behind the reservation doesn't show up but
    > > > that's something else.
    > > > Remember you must claim the seat at departure, typically at latest
    > 15min,
    > > > otherwise the seat is considered free.
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > > You mean it's changed since last September? Not one train I used with
    > > the electronic reservation signs indicated whether the seat was reserved
    > > or not, just that it MIGHT be.
    > No. It's not changed have been so all the time to my experience . Either
    > the display is black and the seat is free. Or the display do show a
    > reservation between mentioned stations. Possibly it's not working but
    > never seen it show "might be reserved", for what reason should it be so ?

For last second reservations or if they could not feed reservation data
into the trainset.

Regards & X-post, ULF

Ulf Kutzner

David Horne schrieb:

    > > >don't think we've got as advanced as little electronic displays yet.
    > >
    > > Tht's because UK trains are nowhere neaar as advanced as German
    > > ICEs.
    >
    > Well, some UK trains do have such a system, and I've recently been on
    > German ICE's which don't- so I don't think it's uniform.

ICE1 (class 401) don't.

Regards & X-post, ULF

Martin Bienwald

Lennart Petersen:
    > erilar:
    >> Hatunen:

    >> > The German ICEs (some of them anyway) have little electronic
    >> > signs above the seats.

    >> Which usually tell you the seat MIGHT be reserved and nothing else.

    > Not at all. It tells you if the particular seat is reserved and between
    > which stations there's a reservation made.

Both true - usually the seats in one car are marked "might be reserved"
to allow for last minute reservations. On other cars, they show the stations
between which the seat is reserved (or nothing for an unreserved seat).

... Martin

Tim Challenger

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:35:32 -0600, erilar wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:21:29 +0100, "Owain"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>"Steven" wrote
    >>>| I've read and heard reservations are not necesary for some
    >>>| trains.
    >>>| However, if you have no reservation, where do you seat?
    >>>| How do you know you are not seating in somebody's place?
    >>>In the UK, there's a card slipped into a slot in the back of the seat
    >>>with
    >>>the sections of journey for which the seat is reserved printed on it. I
    >>>don't think we've got as advanced as little electronic displays yet.
    >>
    >> Tht's because UK trains are nowhere neaar as advanced as German
    >> ICEs.
    >>
    >
    > It's the ICEs where the system has not been working on any train I've
    > traveled on on my last two trips.

ICEs are reservation only aren't they?

--
Tim C.

Lennart Petersen

"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:35:32 -0600, erilar wrote:
    > > In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:21:29 +0100, "Owain"
    > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>>"Steven" wrote
    > >>>| I've read and heard reservations are not necesary for some
    > >>>| trains.
    > >>>| However, if you have no reservation, where do you seat?
    > >>>| How do you know you are not seating in somebody's place?
    > >>>
    > >>>In the UK, there's a card slipped into a slot in the back of the seat
    > >>>with
    > >>>the sections of journey for which the seat is reserved printed on it. I
    > >>>don't think we've got as advanced as little electronic displays yet.
    > >>
    > >> Tht's because UK trains are nowhere neaar as advanced as German
    > >> ICEs.
    > >>
    > >
    > > It's the ICEs where the system has not been working on any train I've
    > > traveled on on my last two trips.
    > ICEs are reservation only aren't they?
No, they aren't.

Tim Challenger

On Wed, 01 Sep 2004 14:47:38 GMT, Lennart Petersen wrote:

    > "Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 15:35:32 -0600, erilar wrote:
    >>> In article <[email protected]>, Hatunen
    >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>> On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 13:21:29 +0100, "Owain"
    >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>>"Steven" wrote
    >>>>>| I've read and heard reservations are not necesary for some
    >>>>>| trains.
    >>>>>| However, if you have no reservation, where do you seat?
    >>>>>| How do you know you are not seating in somebody's place?
    >>>>>In the UK, there's a card slipped into a slot in the back of the seat
    >>>>>with
    >>>>>the sections of journey for which the seat is reserved printed on it. I
    >>>>>don't think we've got as advanced as little electronic displays yet.
    >>>> Tht's because UK trains are nowhere neaar as advanced as German
    >>>> ICEs.
    >>> It's the ICEs where the system has not been working on any train I've
    >>> traveled on on my last two trips.
    >> ICEs are reservation only aren't they?
    > No, they aren't.

They used to be. But it's been a number of years since I rode one.

--
Tim C.

Lennart Petersen

"Tim Challenger" <[email protected]> skrev i meddelandet
news:[email protected]...
    > >> ICEs are reservation only aren't they?
    > > No, they aren't.
    > They used to be. But it's been a number of years since I rode one.
    > --
    > Tim C.
No, they have never been.
Exception was a special connection with meal service.
I've travelled them from their start and mostly without a reservation.
Only occasionally I've travelled with a reservation which have never been
compulsory.
Typically resulting in standing passengers in overcrowded trains in peak
travel time.
A supplement have been needed in connection with some tickets not valid for
ICE such as Interrail.

Bjorn Olsson

Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>. ..
    > On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:00:23 -0500, jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Steven wrote:
    > >
    > >> I've read and heard reservations are not necesary for some trains.
    > >> However, if you have no reservation, where do you seat?
    > >> How do you know you are not seating in somebody's place?
    >
    > >reserved seats are posted with little cards and people have to yield to

    > >the people who have the reservation [which is noted on their ticket]
    > >places without such cards are open, but in a crowded train you may be
    > >standing in the aisles for hours
    >
    > Or as happened to us on the train from Brussels to Copenhagen (it
    > was 1996) The people sitting in your seats refuse to get up and
    > you have to hunt up the train conductor to oust them.

Worse yet is the following scenario (which takes place far too often
on swedish trains): Passenger A, travelling without a reservation,
gets on at the first station and grabs the nearest empty seat. At the
next station enters passenger B, in whose seat passenger A is sitting.
Passenger B then, in a foolish attempt to be "nice", says: "Oh no,
don't get up, I'll take this empty seat over here instead". Next
station. Enters passenger C, in whose seat passenger B is now sitting.
In a foolish attempt to be "nice", passenger C utters: "Oh no, don't
get up, I'll take this seat over here instead". At the following three
stations enter passengers D, E and F, all repeating the same silly
procedure. The train then begins to fill up. All seats are taken.
Enters passenger G, in whose seat passenger F is sitting. There are no
other free seats on the train...

Passenger G to passenger F: "I want my seat". Passenger F to passenger
E: "I want my seat". Passenger E to passenger D...

I have observed this domino effect reaching up to half-way through the
alphabet. That's why I'm never "nice" to anyone sitting in my reserved
seat, even if the train is almost empty.

Bjorn