Siderodromophile

I am planning to travel next year in March through Eastern Europe as
part of a ten-week trip that will include Turkey and the UK as well.

What I need advice on is
timetabling through Romania and which trains offer the most
scenic routes whilst keeping to our time frames.

My intention is to travel Venice-Ljubljana-Zagreb-Budepest-
Bucharest-Istanbul and my main references for doing this are the
Thomas Cook Europe European Train Timetables March 2005
(given me by a friend who recently visited Europe: scarce as hen's
teeth this far south of the equator!) and the excellent online Route
Planner for railways in Europe.

My research tells me that leaving Venice at 9am on the "Goldoni"
(EC53) to Zagreb allows some of the beautiful Slovenian scenery to
be seen. Overnight Zagreb. ( 18th March, 2006)
Then on to Budapest on the Maestral via Balaton leaving Zagreb at
7.10am (D205) arriving into Budapest at 14:23. (19th March)--
overnighting in Budapest.

It is from here that my main question arises:

On the following day (20th March) I can either take the Transbalkan
leaving Budapest at 19:15 (D736) and arriving into Bucharest at
11.04 the next day (21st March) and then take the Bosfor (D499)out
of Bucharest at 14:10. arriving in Istanbul the following morning
(22nd March).

However, I note that the TransBalkan takes a somewhat different
route through Romania (travelling through Petrosani, Filiasi and
Craiova in the early hours of the morning) than does the Dacia
(D738?) which leaves Budapest at around 11pm at night and
travelling along the edge of the Carpathians and through Brasov
getting into Bucharest at 13:30 the following day. This latter looks
(on the Thomas Cook Rail Map of Europe) to be a very scenic route
(and marked as such) which is covered in daylight , at least in part.

I am keen to see some of the countryside, especially the Carpathians,
but am concerned that if I take the Dacia the connection between it
and the Bosfor in Bucharest is only 40 minutes. Is this realistic?
Even assuming that the Dacia gets in smack on the knocker of
13:30? Or am I better to be safe and spend a night in Bucharest and
take the Bosfor the following day or adjust earlier parts of my
schedule accordingly. I *must* be in Istabul on March 22nd (to pick
up a two week tour of Turkey).

What advice can you give me about whether the Trans Balkan or the
Dacia is the better and more scenic route, whether the connections
at Bucharest would work if I took the Dacia, and also what kind of
accomodation should I book for the trip Budapest-Istanbul: sleeper
or couchette.

Thankyou, in anticipation, for your help. This is the first posting to
the group and it is a serious question from an Australian who lives a
*very long way* from Europe and where there is a scarcity of
information about these countries in Eastern Europe. Even on the
Internet, such research as I have done has revealed only a small amount
of information about the realities of travel on trains through Eastern
Europe. (I had one response today from a rail travel agent saying that
he thought that 40 minutes was a reasonable changeover time, but also
admitted that there was no-one in his office who had travelled through
those countries.) So this is why I have sought out this usergroup. I
feel sure that there are people on this group with the kind of
knowledge I need. Please help me if you can, and thankyou in
anticipation.


Alex
"'siderodromophile': one who loves trains!"

Gregory Morrow

[x - posted: misc.transport.rail.europe]

Siderodromophile wrote:

    > I am planning to travel next year in March through Eastern Europe as
    > part of a ten-week trip that will include Turkey and the UK as well.
    > What I need advice on is
    > timetabling through Romania and which trains offer the most
    > scenic routes whilst keeping to our time frames.
    > My intention is to travel Venice-Ljubljana-Zagreb-Budepest-
    > Bucharest-Istanbul and my main references for doing this are the
    > Thomas Cook Europe European Train Timetables March 2005
    > (given me by a friend who recently visited Europe: scarce as hen's
    > teeth this far south of the equator!) and the excellent online Route
    > Planner for railways in Europe.
    > My research tells me that leaving Venice at 9am on the "Goldoni"
    > (EC53) to Zagreb allows some of the beautiful Slovenian scenery to
    > be seen. Overnight Zagreb. ( 18th March, 2006)
    > Then on to Budapest on the Maestral via Balaton leaving Zagreb at
    > 7.10am (D205) arriving into Budapest at 14:23. (19th March)--
    > overnighting in Budapest.
    > It is from here that my main question arises:
    > On the following day (20th March) I can either take the Transbalkan
    > leaving Budapest at 19:15 (D736) and arriving into Bucharest at
    > 11.04 the next day (21st March) and then take the Bosfor (D499)out
    > of Bucharest at 14:10. arriving in Istanbul the following morning
    > (22nd March).
    > However, I note that the TransBalkan takes a somewhat different
    > route through Romania (travelling through Petrosani, Filiasi and
    > Craiova in the early hours of the morning) than does the Dacia
    > (D738?) which leaves Budapest at around 11pm at night and
    > travelling along the edge of the Carpathians and through Brasov
    > getting into Bucharest at 13:30 the following day. This latter looks
    > (on the Thomas Cook Rail Map of Europe) to be a very scenic route
    > (and marked as such) which is covered in daylight , at least in part.
    > I am keen to see some of the countryside, especially the Carpathians,
    > but am concerned that if I take the Dacia the connection between it
    > and the Bosfor in Bucharest is only 40 minutes. Is this realistic?
    > Even assuming that the Dacia gets in smack on the knocker of
    > 13:30? Or am I better to be safe and spend a night in Bucharest and
    > take the Bosfor the following day or adjust earlier parts of my
    > schedule accordingly. I *must* be in Istabul on March 22nd (to pick
    > up a two week tour of Turkey).
    > What advice can you give me about whether the Trans Balkan or the
    > Dacia is the better and more scenic route, whether the connections
    > at Bucharest would work if I took the Dacia, and also what kind of
    > accomodation should I book for the trip Budapest-Istanbul: sleeper
    > or couchette.
    > Thankyou, in anticipation, for your help. This is the first posting to
    > the group and it is a serious question from an Australian who lives a
    > *very long way* from Europe and where there is a scarcity of
    > information about these countries in Eastern Europe. Even on the
    > Internet, such research as I have done has revealed only a small amount
    > of information about the realities of travel on trains through Eastern
    > Europe. (I had one response today from a rail travel agent saying that
    > he thought that 40 minutes was a reasonable changeover time, but also
    > admitted that there was no-one in his office who had travelled through
    > those countries.) So this is why I have sought out this usergroup. I
    > feel sure that there are people on this group with the kind of
    > knowledge I need. Please help me if you can, and thankyou in
    > anticipation.


I am cross - posting this to misc.transport.rail.europe, you should got
loads of good advice on that group...

--
Best
Greg

Siderodromophile

Greg,
Thanks for re posting my request.
I can't seem to find the newsgroups you've cross-posted to. I'm very new
on these groups. Can you help?
Alex

--
Sent via Travel Newsgroups
http://www.travelnewsgroups.com

Gregory Morrow

Siderodromophile wrote:

    > Greg,
    > Thanks for re posting my request.
    > I can't seem to find the newsgroups you've cross-posted to. I'm very new
    > on these groups. Can you help?

The newsgroup is:

misc.transport.rail.europe

If your newsserver does not carry it, it can be accessed through google.com
groups...

AH! I see you are posting through a web interface portal (
http://www.travelnewsgroups.com ) that does not carry the group, therein
lies the problem...you'll have to access it through google.com groups. Or
through your ISP's newsserver (if they have one).

--
Best
Greg


    > Alex
    > --
    > Sent via Travel Newsgroups
    > http://www.travelnewsgroups.com

Igor

Siderodromophile wrote:
    > I am planning to travel next year in March through Eastern Europe as
    > part of a ten-week trip that will include Turkey and the UK as well.
    >
    > What I need advice on is
    > timetabling through Romania and which trains offer the most
    > scenic routes whilst keeping to our time frames.
    >
    > My intention is to travel Venice-Ljubljana-Zagreb-Budepest-
    > Bucharest-Istanbul and my main references for doing this are the
    > Thomas Cook Europe European Train Timetables March 2005
    > (given me by a friend who recently visited Europe: scarce as hen's
    > teeth this far south of the equator!) and the excellent online Route
    > Planner for railways in Europe.
You could also try:
http://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/query.exe/en
It covers all of the trains in Eastern/Central Europe (however you
intend to call it :)) and is always up to date.

    >
    > My research tells me that leaving Venice at 9am on the "Goldoni"
    > (EC53) to Zagreb allows some of the beautiful Slovenian scenery to
    > be seen. Overnight Zagreb. ( 18th March, 2006)
    > Then on to Budapest on the Maestral via Balaton leaving Zagreb at
    > 7.10am (D205) arriving into Budapest at 14:23. (19th March)--
    > overnighting in Budapest.
    >
    > It is from here that my main question arises:
    >
    > On the following day (20th March) I can either take the Transbalkan
    > leaving Budapest at 19:15 (D736) and arriving into Bucharest at
    > 11.04 the next day (21st March) and then take the Bosfor (D499)out
    > of Bucharest at 14:10. arriving in Istanbul the following morning
    > (22nd March).
    >
    > However, I note that the TransBalkan takes a somewhat different
    > route through Romania (travelling through Petrosani, Filiasi and
    > Craiova in the early hours of the morning) than does the Dacia
    > (D738?) which leaves Budapest at around 11pm at night and
    > travelling along the edge of the Carpathians and through Brasov
    > getting into Bucharest at 13:30 the following day. This latter looks
    > (on the Thomas Cook Rail Map of Europe) to be a very scenic route
    > (and marked as such) which is covered in daylight , at least in part.

That's true, the Dacia's route is more scenic, especially the
Brasov-Sinaia part of it.
    >
    > I am keen to see some of the countryside, especially the Carpathians,
    > but am concerned that if I take the Dacia the connection between it
    > and the Bosfor in Bucharest is only 40 minutes. Is this realistic?
Not really.

    > Even assuming that the Dacia gets in smack on the knocker of
    > 13:30? Or am I better to be safe and spend a night in Bucharest and
    > take the Bosfor the following day

I would take the Dacia a day earlier and get off in Sighisoara:
http://www.sighisoara.com , than take a local train to Brasov (
http://www.brasov.ro ) and spend the night there. From there in the
morning to Bucharest.

igor

Ross

    > Siderodromophile wrote (seen in Gregory Morrow's post <[email protected]. net> to misc.transport.rail.europe):
    >
[....]
    > > It is from here that my main question arises:
    > >
    > > On the following day (20th March) I can either take the Transbalkan
    > > leaving Budapest at 19:15 (D736) and arriving into Bucharest at
    > > 11.04 the next day (21st March) and then take the Bosfor (D499)out
    > > of Bucharest at 14:10. arriving in Istanbul the following morning
    > > (22nd March).
[....]
    > > I am keen to see some of the countryside, especially the Carpathians,
    > > but am concerned that if I take the Dacia the connection between it
    > > and the Bosfor in Bucharest is only 40 minutes. Is this realistic?

I've never been to that part of the world myself (it's on my "to do"
list) but I've just read a comment in the European Rail Yahoo group
which may be of interest:

    >->> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:53:17 -0000
    >->> From: "caplan_na" <caplan_na@y*h*o.co.uk>
    >->> Subject: MAV/CFR a weekend dash

    >->> I should add that my overnight from Budapest (the one to
    >->> Bucresti Nord) was 44 mins late on the Friday mainly due
    >->> to a long fester at Curtici. The Saturday overnight was 3
    >->> hours late so watch planning any connections off these trains.
    >->> My experience on the overnight was fine, no dodgy character
    >->> or security problems though I did avoid the couchettes and
    >->> you need to be able to put up with everybody smoking!

Given that comment, ...

    > > Or am I better to be safe and spend a night in Bucharest and
    > > take the Bosfor the following day or adjust earlier parts of my
    > > schedule accordingly.

I think it's better to be safe than sorry and to allow the extra time.
--
Ross Hamilton, in Lincoln (UK)
From address *will* bounce

DDT Filled Mormons

On 27 Sep 2005 01:20:18 -0700, "Siderodromophile"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >I am planning to travel next year in March through Eastern Europe as
    >part of a ten-week trip that will include Turkey and the UK as well.

As long as you jump from the UK to somewhere more eastern!

    >What I need advice on is
    >timetabling through Romania and which trains offer the most
    >scenic routes whilst keeping to our time frames.

Well, just look at the map! The mountains are where you want to be.
Central Transylvania is great for mountains, but do you really want to
see it just from a train?

    >I am keen to see some of the countryside, especially the Carpathians,
    >but am concerned that if I take the Dacia the connection between it
    >and the Bosfor in Bucharest is only 40 minutes. Is this realistic?

Well, the (Gara de Nord) station is not that big, but I am not sure I
would rely on the trains.

    >Even assuming that the Dacia gets in smack on the knocker of
    >13:30? Or am I better to be safe and spend a night in Bucharest and
    >take the Bosfor the following day or adjust earlier parts of my
    >schedule accordingly. I *must* be in Istabul on March 22nd (to pick
    >up a two week tour of Turkey).

I would spend a night in Bucharest to be sure. The city is worth a few
hours to look around to see how much damage Ceaucescu really did to
the place.

    >Thankyou, in anticipation, for your help. This is the first posting to
    >the group and it is a serious question from an Australian who lives a
    >*very long way* from Europe and where there is a scarcity of
    >information about these countries in Eastern Europe.

You will find Australians in every country you come across. Buy the
Lonely Planet guide, and it will alleviate your fears.

BTW: There are plenty of sensitive folks around that hate the name
"Eastern Europe", even if it is valid, so watch out!

    >Even on the
    >Internet, such research as I have done has revealed only a small amount
    >of information about the realities of travel on trains through Eastern
    >Europe. (I had one response today from a rail travel agent saying that
    >he thought that 40 minutes was a reasonable changeover time, but also
    >admitted that there was no-one in his office who had travelled through
    >those countries.) So this is why I have sought out this usergroup. I
    >feel sure that there are people on this group with the kind of
    >knowledge I need. Please help me if you can, and thankyou in
    >anticipation.

I have been there too. It's just an adventure, so don't worry!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--