Barbara Vaughan

cristina wrote:
    >
    > "Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >> I also learned recently that my Italian citizenship papers have been
    > > forwarded from Rome. They now have to take a circuitous route through
    > > some regional government offices, then they'll be sent to my local town
    > > hall, where the town clerk has promised to call me the minute they
    > > arrive.
    >
    > Barbara, what did you get for the fedina penale for your citizenship
    > application?

Is that the document attesting that I haven't committed any crimes in my
home country?

I called the local police station in Princeton NJ, and bless their
hearts, they knew all about it. The woman who answered the phone said
she could produce the required document and told me immediately what it
would cost. (Princeton has many faults, but it certainly is
cosmopolitan.) They produced a very official letter saying that I hadn't
done anything terrible while I lived in their township (for over 20
years). (Actually, they quite gratuitously mentioned an overdue parking
ticket, which annoyed me.) I was afraid the prefettura would ask me for
a similar document from every town where I ever lived, but they didn't.

Barbara

Cristina

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
I was afraid the prefettura would ask me for
    > a similar document from every town where I ever lived, but they didn't.

Thanks, that's great to know :-)

Cristina

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > That's very odd; there are lots of Europeans living in my province,
    > including hundreds, maybe thousands, of Germans. But the only Europeans
    > I've ever seen at the commissariato are from the former Soviet Union or
    > other countries outside the EU. Perhaps they have a streamlined way to
    > get the permesso di soggiorno?

Well they can get the carta di soggiorno instead after a short amount of
time and that is for life so they never have to go back again. My PdiS was
for life too but then we found the error so I had to start from the
beginning. What a pain.

Sjoerd

"Barbara Vaughan" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > cristina wrote:
    > >
    > > "Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > It's for any foreigner who requires a permesso di soggiorno (literally
    > > > "permission to stay), which I believe excludes EU citizens. It would
    > > > also exclude those who don't need a visa (i.e., tourists from
countries
    > > > with a visa waiver.)
    > >
    > > Nope, also EU citizens need a permesso and need to show proof of health
    > > insurance as well. It can be denied as well if the EU citizen is a
felon.
    > > Also, those who are staying longer than 8 days (but less than 90 which
would
    > > mean no visa) would essentially need one but if staying in hotels, the
    > > hotel registers you with the questura and this is then considered
complete.
    > > If not staying in a hotel then you are supposed to go to the questura
and
    > > register yourself (no forms, pictures or money needed for this).
    > That's very odd; there are lots of Europeans living in my province,
    > including hundreds, maybe thousands, of Germans. But the only Europeans
    > I've ever seen at the commissariato are from the former Soviet Union or
    > other countries outside the EU. Perhaps they have a streamlined way to
    > get the permesso di soggiorno?

Probably they just don't bother. I have been to Italy many, many times,
before Schengen. and after Schengen arriving from a non-Schengen country,
and I don't think my (EU, Dutch) passport has ever even been opened by an
Italian officer. So even if I would live in Italy who would ever know that I
had been there for more than 8 days?

Here in the Netherlands citizens from other EEA (EU + Norway, Iceland and
Liechtenstein) countries don't need a residence permit anymore. The law was
changed a few years ago.

Sjoerd

Sjoerd

"Barbara Vaughan" schreef in bericht
news:[email protected]...
    > cristina wrote:
    > >
    > > "Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >> I also learned recently that my Italian citizenship papers have been
    > > > forwarded from Rome. They now have to take a circuitous route through
    > > > some regional government offices, then they'll be sent to my local
town
    > > > hall, where the town clerk has promised to call me the minute they
    > > > arrive.
    > >
    > > Barbara, what did you get for the fedina penale for your citizenship
    > > application?
    > Is that the document attesting that I haven't committed any crimes in my
    > home country?
    > I called the local police station in Princeton NJ, and bless their
    > hearts, they knew all about it. The woman who answered the phone said
    > she could produce the required document and told me immediately what it
    > would cost. (Princeton has many faults, but it certainly is
    > cosmopolitan.) They produced a very official letter saying that I hadn't
    > done anything terrible while I lived in their township (for over 20
    > years). (Actually, they quite gratuitously mentioned an overdue parking
    > ticket, which annoyed me.) I was afraid the prefettura would ask me for
    > a similar document from every town where I ever lived, but they didn't.

Don't we all just love these kinds of useless documents? My partner had to
submit a document proving that he is "not married". Eventually he got an
official looking document from his church in a village in Colombia stating
that there is 'no evidence that he is married". This was sufficient for the
Dutch foreigners' police.

Sjoerd

Barbara Vaughan

Sjoerd wrote:

    > Don't we all just love these kinds of useless documents? My partner had to
    > submit a document proving that he is "not married". Eventually he got an
    > official looking document from his church in a village in Colombia stating
    > that there is 'no evidence that he is married". This was sufficient for the
    > Dutch foreigners' police.

I had quite a time with the foreigners police when we lived in the
Netherlands. I was married and divorced when I was quite young. Then I
lived with a man for quite some time, with whom I had two children. The
children had the surname of their father, which apparently wouldn't have
been allowed in the Netherlands (at that time, anyway) unless we were
married. (In the states I lived in, you could pretty much choose
whatever surname you wanted for a baby.)

First of all, the police wanted evidence that I had been divorced. I had
never anticipated that anyone would want to see my divorce certificate,
so I hadn't brought it. It was sheer stupidity that I informed them I
had been married, as none of my documents had any evidence of it. (I had
resumed my birth name, and no American documents have marital status on
them.) I also hadn't brought my marriage certificate, so why did they
want proof of the end of a marriage they had no proof ever existed? I
tried this line of reasoning, but they didn't seem impressed. I got
around it by promising to write to the US to ask for a copy of my
divorce certificate.

The next problem was that my children were born in two different states,
and had two different types of birth certificate. They wanted me to get
the NJ type of certificate for the child born in Pennsylvania. (It had
lots more information on it.) I promised to send for that as well. Then
they wanted the birth dates of all four of my grandparents. I had no
idea; I made up dates, giving one the birthday of George Washington,
another the birthday of Abraham Lincoln, and so forth.

Finally, we seemed to have resolved all issues. The clerk disappeared
into a back room to copy some papers or something of the sort. Then he
re-emerged to ask me, "Ms. Vaughan, who was this Mr. Smith?" (the
surname of my children's father.) I wanted to say, "Oh, just some guy I
met in a bar.", but I refrained.

Barbara

Ken Blake

In [email protected], Barbara Vaughan wrote:

    > Finally, we seemed to have resolved all issues. The clerk
disappeared
    > into a back room to copy some papers or something of the sort.
Then he
    > re-emerged to ask me, "Ms. Vaughan, who was this Mr. Smith?"
(the
    > surname of my children's father.) I wanted to say, "Oh, just
some guy
    > I
    > met in a bar.", but I refrained.


LOL! You showed admirable restraint.

--
Ken Blake
Please reply to the newsgroup

Judith Umbria

"cristina" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >> I also learned recently that my Italian citizenship papers have been
    > > forwarded from Rome.
    > Barbara, what did you get for the fedina penale for your citizenship
    > application? I guess I could go to the consulate and get a fingerprint
card
    > for the FBI but was wondering if there was another way.
    > Cristina

The whole source question seems to depend on where your address of record
is. I was told to get the prints and send them to the West Virginia State
Police. I did my own prints on their form.
My friend from Los Angeles was told she had to submit her prints from a
certified source to the FBI. The Embassy in Rome made an exception and did
them for her. Our local carabinieri or Polizia di Stato would have been my
guess, but no dice.
This unevenness in the application of rules is beginning to be scary.

Luca Logi

Ralph wrote:

    > I'm wondering, actually, whether this is still in concordance with the EU
    > treaties - which state that EU foreigners to a country must not suffer from
    > discriminations that the locals don't have to endure. Usually that refers
    > to economical issues, though. Hm. Better to read up the EU treaties. ;-)

Actually, there was a project to fingerprint all Italians, this being
related to a switch to smart ID cards that will be experimented in the
next years. Half of Italians (the males) have been already fingerprinted
when taking military draft tests.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

Luca Logi

Sjoerd wrote:

    > Probably they just don't bother. I have been to Italy many, many times,
    > before Schengen. and after Schengen arriving from a non-Schengen country,
    > and I don't think my (EU, Dutch) passport has ever even been opened by an
    > Italian officer. So even if I would live in Italy who would ever know that I
    > had been there for more than 8 days?


Actually the law applies not only to foreigners but to Italians also. It
is an old antiterrorism law, dating back to the age of red brigades. If
you are staying in a place long enough, a notice is to be filed to the
police. Usually this is done by the hotel (that's why they are asking
your ID when you arrive), by the landlord if you rent a home, or by the
public notary registering the act if you buy a home. If you stay with a
family long enough, they are also supposed to register you.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]

Devil

On Sat, 07 Jun 2003 12:39:11 +0200, Luca Logi wrote:

    > Ralph wrote:
    >
    >> I'm wondering, actually, whether this is still in concordance with the EU
    >> treaties - which state that EU foreigners to a country must not suffer from
    >> discriminations that the locals don't have to endure. Usually that refers
    >> to economical issues, though. Hm. Better to read up the EU treaties. ;-)
    >
    > Actually, there was a project to fingerprint all Italians, this being
    > related to a switch to smart ID cards that will be experimented in the
    > next years. Half of Italians (the males) have been already fingerprinted
    > when taking military draft tests.

Does Italy still have mandatory military service?

Barbara Vaughan

Luca Logi wrote:
    >
    > Sjoerd wrote:
    >
    > > Probably they just don't bother. I have been to Italy many, many times,
    > > before Schengen. and after Schengen arriving from a non-Schengen country,
    > > and I don't think my (EU, Dutch) passport has ever even been opened by an
    > > Italian officer. So even if I would live in Italy who would ever know that I
    > > had been there for more than 8 days?
    >
    > Actually the law applies not only to foreigners but to Italians also. It
    > is an old antiterrorism law, dating back to the age of red brigades. If
    > you are staying in a place long enough, a notice is to be filed to the
    > police. Usually this is done by the hotel (that's why they are asking
    > your ID when you arrive), by the landlord if you rent a home, or by the
    > public notary registering the act if you buy a home. If you stay with a
    > family long enough, they are also supposed to register you.

However, this is not a permesso di soggiorno. Cristina said that EU
nationals were required to obtain a permesso di soggiorno if they wanted
to stay in Italy. I take that to mean that they have to carry around a
piece of paper entitled "Permesso di Soggiorno" that has their
photograph, their vital statistics, and why they are in Italy, and that
has to be renewed every 2 years.

Is that what you mean, Cristina?

Barbara

Barbara Vaughan

Judith Umbria wrote:
    >
    > "cristina" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >> I also learned recently that my Italian citizenship papers have been
    > > > forwarded from Rome.
    > > Barbara, what did you get for the fedina penale for your citizenship
    > > application? I guess I could go to the consulate and get a fingerprint
    > card
    > > for the FBI but was wondering if there was another way.
    > >
    > > Cristina
    >
    > The whole source question seems to depend on where your address of record
    > is. I was told to get the prints and send them to the West Virginia State
    > Police. I did my own prints on their form.
    > My friend from Los Angeles was told she had to submit her prints from a
    > certified source to the FBI. The Embassy in Rome made an exception and did
    > them for her. Our local carabinieri or Polizia di Stato would have been my
    > guess, but no dice.
    > This unevenness in the application of rules is beginning to be scary.

I was never asked to obtain anything from the FBI.

Barbara

Cristina

"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
    >> Luca Logi wrote:
    >> If you stay with a family long enough, they are also supposed to register
you.
    > However, this is not a permesso di soggiorno. Cristina said that EU
    > nationals were required to obtain a permesso di soggiorno if they wanted
    > to stay in Italy. I take that to mean that they have to carry around a
    > piece of paper entitled "Permesso di Soggiorno" that has their
    > photograph, their vital statistics, and why they are in Italy, and that
    > has to be renewed every 2 years.
    > Is that what you mean, Cristina?

Yep, but I think they are for longer for EU nationals, maybe 5 years. They
can also apply for a carta di soggiorno after a short time (a few years).
By the way the second permeso for an EU national if for life so never has to
be renewed again.

Cristina

Luca Logi

devil wrote:


    > Does Italy still have mandatory military service?


It is being discontinued, but it is a very recent thing, so 18-years-old
boys were drafted till one or two years ago.

--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]