They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Jun 5th 2003, 7:53 am
#1
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They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
government is really fast.
I was not as disturbed by this as I was at the news that they've changed
the renewal process from one in which you waited in a really long line
to one in which they admit a limited number of people each day (I think
I heard 7) on a first-come, first-served basis. I was advised to show up
before 6 AM if I don't want to return another day.
I also learned recently that my Italian citizenship papers have been
forwarded from Rome. They now have to take a circuitous route through
some regional government offices, then they'll be sent to my local town
hall, where the town clerk has promised to call me the minute they
arrive.
Barbara
I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
government is really fast.
I was not as disturbed by this as I was at the news that they've changed
the renewal process from one in which you waited in a really long line
to one in which they admit a limited number of people each day (I think
I heard 7) on a first-come, first-served basis. I was advised to show up
before 6 AM if I don't want to return another day.
I also learned recently that my Italian citizenship papers have been
forwarded from Rome. They now have to take a circuitous route through
some regional government offices, then they'll be sent to my local town
hall, where the town clerk has promised to call me the minute they
arrive.
Barbara
Jun 5th 2003, 9:31 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Barbara Vaughan wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
I bet this requirement doesn't reduce the plagues of "non-European" street
traders who were all over the Desenzano streets in the summer evenings, when we
visited (and probably elsewhere around L Garda). I got the impression that they
were tolerated by the police, and probably running some sort of protection
racket on the restaurants.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
news:[email protected]...
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
I bet this requirement doesn't reduce the plagues of "non-European" street
traders who were all over the Desenzano streets in the summer evenings, when we
visited (and probably elsewhere around L Garda). I got the impression that they
were tolerated by the police, and probably running some sort of protection
racket on the restaurants.
--
M Stewart
Milton Keynes, UK
Jun 5th 2003, 9:32 am
#3
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Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Barbara Vaughan wrote:
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
Well, actually about half of Italian citizens (the male ones) were
already fingerprinted when they had to pass the drafting tests at 18.
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
Well, actually about half of Italian citizens (the male ones) were
already fingerprinted when they had to pass the drafting tests at 18.
--
Luca Logi - Firenze - Italy e-mail: [email protected]
Jun 5th 2003, 11:05 am
#4
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Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Barbara Vaughan writes:
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and
> learned that I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't
> heard any huge outcry from the freedom lovers who were
> castigating the US over this.
In the U.S., schools are fingerprinting students just to allow them to
buy lunch.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and
> learned that I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't
> heard any huge outcry from the freedom lovers who were
> castigating the US over this.
In the U.S., schools are fingerprinting students just to allow them to
buy lunch.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 5th 2003, 2:03 pm
#5
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Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Barbara Vaughan writes:
>
> > I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and
> > learned that I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't
> > heard any huge outcry from the freedom lovers who were
> > castigating the US over this.
>
> In the U.S., schools are fingerprinting students just to allow them to
> buy lunch.
At a public school ?
jay
Thu, Jun 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mxsmanic wrote:
> Barbara Vaughan writes:
>
> > I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and
> > learned that I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't
> > heard any huge outcry from the freedom lovers who were
> > castigating the US over this.
>
> In the U.S., schools are fingerprinting students just to allow them to
> buy lunch.
At a public school ?
jay
Thu, Jun 5, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Jun 5th 2003, 3:24 pm
#6
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Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
In article ,
Mxsmanic wrote:
> In the U.S., schools are fingerprinting students just to allow them to
> buy lunch.
Where in the US is ths being done? Never heard of this and I am familiar
with many school policies and regulations.
--
Nancy Kay
"Patience is a Virtue"
remove no in e-mail address
Mxsmanic wrote:
> In the U.S., schools are fingerprinting students just to allow them to
> buy lunch.
Where in the US is ths being done? Never heard of this and I am familiar
with many school policies and regulations.
--
Nancy Kay
"Patience is a Virtue"
remove no in e-mail address
Jun 5th 2003, 5:23 pm
#7
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Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
"Barbara Vaughan" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
> I was not as disturbed by this as I was at the news that they've changed
> the renewal process from one in which you waited in a really long line
> to one in which they admit a limited number of people each day (I think
> I heard 7) on a first-come, first-served basis. I was advised to show up
> before 6 AM if I don't want to return another day.
> Barbara
Barbara, I have to re-up in November. I'm not disturbed, as I had to be
fingerprinted for the criminal (non) record in the US to get a visa.
Is this 7 a day rule national? The office here is only open to foreigners
twice a week and there are always at least 24 waiting, so I'd guess you'd
have to show up at 1 AM here.
On the citizenship, will that affect in any way your ability to get SS when
that time comes around? I'm still 7 years from being able to even ask for
it, but that was my only reservation.
news:[email protected]...
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
> I was not as disturbed by this as I was at the news that they've changed
> the renewal process from one in which you waited in a really long line
> to one in which they admit a limited number of people each day (I think
> I heard 7) on a first-come, first-served basis. I was advised to show up
> before 6 AM if I don't want to return another day.
> Barbara
Barbara, I have to re-up in November. I'm not disturbed, as I had to be
fingerprinted for the criminal (non) record in the US to get a visa.
Is this 7 a day rule national? The office here is only open to foreigners
twice a week and there are always at least 24 waiting, so I'd guess you'd
have to show up at 1 AM here.
On the citizenship, will that affect in any way your ability to get SS when
that time comes around? I'm still 7 years from being able to even ask for
it, but that was my only reservation.
Jun 5th 2003, 7:05 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:53:30 +0200, Barbara Vaughan
wrote:
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this.
Is that for all foreigners or just non-EU citizens? Maybe it's a sort of
tit-for-tat thing. (You are from the US aren't you?)
wrote:
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this.
Is that for all foreigners or just non-EU citizens? Maybe it's a sort of
tit-for-tat thing. (You are from the US aren't you?)
Jun 5th 2003, 8:51 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Go Fig writes:
> At a public school ?
Yes, in Akron, Ohio. They've installed a fingerprint identification
system to replace lunch tickets. Each child identifies himself by
putting his finger on the device to buy lunch.
They say it has many advantages. They've overlooked one glaring
problem, though: In an environment where people are about to handle
food, about the last thing you want is for everyone in the school to
touch the same glass plate with a finger. One case of hepatitis, and
the entire school is infected in one afternoon. And the hygiene of
schoolkids is often much worse than that of adults (and adults often
don't have very good hygiene).
Wait for the first epidemic traceable to the fingerprint device, and the
lawsuits will fly!
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> At a public school ?
Yes, in Akron, Ohio. They've installed a fingerprint identification
system to replace lunch tickets. Each child identifies himself by
putting his finger on the device to buy lunch.
They say it has many advantages. They've overlooked one glaring
problem, though: In an environment where people are about to handle
food, about the last thing you want is for everyone in the school to
touch the same glass plate with a finger. One case of hepatitis, and
the entire school is infected in one afternoon. And the hygiene of
schoolkids is often much worse than that of adults (and adults often
don't have very good hygiene).
Wait for the first epidemic traceable to the fingerprint device, and the
lawsuits will fly!
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 5th 2003, 8:56 pm
#10
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Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Nancy Kay writes:
> Where in the US is ths being done?
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/...on/5957915.htm
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Where in the US is ths being done?
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/...on/5957915.htm
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 5th 2003, 9:52 pm
#11
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Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
"Tim" wrote in message
news
prqb3bzriwxhha1@localhost...
> On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:53:30 +0200, Barbara Vaughan
> wrote:
> > I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> > I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> > freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this.
> Is that for all foreigners or just non-EU citizens? Maybe it's a sort of
> tit-for-tat thing. (You are from the US aren't you?)
We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno -we are free to live in
any EU state just like you US citizens.
Ronald
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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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news
prqb3bzriwxhha1@localhost...> On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:53:30 +0200, Barbara Vaughan
> wrote:
> > I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> > I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> > freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this.
> Is that for all foreigners or just non-EU citizens? Maybe it's a sort of
> tit-for-tat thing. (You are from the US aren't you?)
We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno -we are free to live in
any EU state just like you US citizens.
Ronald
---
Outgoing mail is AVG certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.487 / Virus Database: 286 - Release Date: 01-06-2003
Jun 5th 2003, 10:07 pm
#12
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Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
On Fri, 6 Jun 2003 11:52:02 +0200, R@L wrote:
> "Tim" wrote in message
> newsprqb3bzriwxhha1@localhost...
>> On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:53:30 +0200, Barbara Vaughan
>> wrote:
>> > I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
>> > I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from
>> the
>> > freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this.
>> Is that for all foreigners or just non-EU citizens? Maybe it's a sort of
>> tit-for-tat thing. (You are from the US aren't you?)
> We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno -we are free to live
> in
> any EU state just like you US citizens.
Actually I'm not American, I was asking if Barbara was. And what you said
can't be true, as Barbara just had to go and renew her "permesso di
soggiorno".
And US citizens are subject to different regulations to EU citizens. That's
whay I was asking.
For example, EU citizens DO need an "Aufenthaltserlaubnis" in Germany,
although it's just a formality, and they get one automatically. That was
the situation some time ago.
Similarly in Austria everyone has to register their permanent address, and
get a form to prove it (Meldezettel). When applying for this form you have
to show either proof of EU citzenship, or residents' permit. So it
obviously differs from country to country. Tim.
> "Tim" wrote in message
> news
prqb3bzriwxhha1@localhost...>> On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 21:53:30 +0200, Barbara Vaughan
>> wrote:
>> > I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
>> > I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from
>> the
>> > freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this.
>> Is that for all foreigners or just non-EU citizens? Maybe it's a sort of
>> tit-for-tat thing. (You are from the US aren't you?)
> We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno -we are free to live
> in
> any EU state just like you US citizens.
Actually I'm not American, I was asking if Barbara was. And what you said
can't be true, as Barbara just had to go and renew her "permesso di
soggiorno".
And US citizens are subject to different regulations to EU citizens. That's
whay I was asking.
For example, EU citizens DO need an "Aufenthaltserlaubnis" in Germany,
although it's just a formality, and they get one automatically. That was
the situation some time ago.
Similarly in Austria everyone has to register their permanent address, and
get a form to prove it (Meldezettel). When applying for this form you have
to show either proof of EU citzenship, or residents' permit. So it
obviously differs from country to country. Tim.
Jun 5th 2003, 10:16 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
> We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno -we are free to
> live in any EU state just like you US citizens.
Your first statement is not true. Thanks to the EU, we are indeed free to
choose where we want to live and work ("freedom of movement", as guaranteed
in the Amsterdam(?) EU treaty). But the member states are still allowed to
ask you to register and get an official approval. They cannot deny it to
you, though - strange but true.
As a EU-citizen in Italy, I think you'd have to register after one week
already.
Cheers,
Ralph
> live in any EU state just like you US citizens.
Your first statement is not true. Thanks to the EU, we are indeed free to
choose where we want to live and work ("freedom of movement", as guaranteed
in the Amsterdam(?) EU treaty). But the member states are still allowed to
ask you to register and get an official approval. They cannot deny it to
you, though - strange but true.
As a EU-citizen in Italy, I think you'd have to register after one week
already.
Cheers,
Ralph
Jun 5th 2003, 10:22 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
Hi,
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
I find that disturbing, actually. It wouldn't happen, though, if it wasn't
for that right-wing Berlusconi regime.
I'm wondering, actually, whether this is still in concordance with the EU
treaties - which state that EU foreigners to a country must not suffer from
discriminations that the locals don't have to endure. Usually that refers
to economical issues, though. Hm. Better to read up the EU treaties. ;-)
R
> I went yesterday to renew my "permesso di soggiorno" and learned that
> I'll have to be fingerprinted. I haven't heard any huge outcry from the
> freedom lovers who were castigating the US over this. As a matter of
> fact, I knew that such a measure was being discussed, but didn't realize
> that it had already been implemented. In some things, the Italian
> government is really fast.
I find that disturbing, actually. It wouldn't happen, though, if it wasn't
for that right-wing Berlusconi regime.
I'm wondering, actually, whether this is still in concordance with the EU
treaties - which state that EU foreigners to a country must not suffer from
discriminations that the locals don't have to endure. Usually that refers
to economical issues, though. Hm. Better to read up the EU treaties. ;-)
R
Jun 5th 2003, 10:53 pm
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: They're fingerprinting foreigners in Italy now
R@L writes:
> We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno
> -we are free to live in any EU state just like you
> US citizens.
States of the European Union are sovereign. States of the United States
of America are not.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> We, EU citizens, do not need a permesso di soggiorno
> -we are free to live in any EU state just like you
> US citizens.
States of the European Union are sovereign. States of the United States
of America are not.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
