Teenagers in Rome

Old Sep 22nd 2004, 2:10 am
  #61  
Emilia
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Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

"minelli374" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > "Sacha" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:BD76FE46.4827%[email protected] k...
    >> Really? That wasn't my impression of Rome at all nor is it that of
    >> my Italian sister in law. I was thinking of the major and well known
    >> areas, not off in the back streets somewhere and certainly not at
    >> night.
    >
    > I live near Milan and I wouldn't suggest anyone to let a boy alone in
    > an Italian big city. People are not very polite, traffic jam is really
    > dangerous because we don't obey limit and traffic rules and police
    > control il very poor.
    > Italian drivers don't respect light, never stop at crossowalk and so,
    > expecially in the south of the Country.
    > It's plenty of immigrants who spend their days drinkin', pissin' and
    > hanging around.
    > Then you have to consider that people have a strong accent there and
    > the 14 y.o boy doesn't know a word of Italian.
    >
    > I consider Rome one of the less safe city in Italy, after Naples.
    >
    > paola


I think you are exaggerating somewhat! But that is not unheard of from
someone from the north! ;o) The accent isn't a problem is he is learning
Italian there. Maybe he can go home speaking with a Roman accent. There
are worse things in life.

I have walked around in Rome by myself many times & have never ever had
any problem. Mostly in the areas that are popular and filled with people.
Of course I don't walk around in strange areas alone at night, but I
don't do that in most cities.

This does not mean I would let a 14 y.o. hang around by himself. This
will depend where the hotel is, how mature he is, etc.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 2:12 am
  #62  
Minelli374
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Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

"Sacha" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:BD77251C.4875%[email protected] k...

    > I think there's some misunderstanding here and if so it's probably because
I
    > wasn't clear enough. I'm not suggesting just leaving a child and going
off
    > for the whole day so that he is alone.

Yeah, I misunderstood -I apologize.

    > But for something like the Vatican museum and Sistine chapel, I'd say the
    > only choice is he goes with them or stays in the hotel. That took us over
3
    > hours, I think and another time, and if possible, I'd visit the Sistine
    > Chapel only, frankly.

I remember only 3 hrs of queue outside and the faster possible visit indoor.
    :)

paola
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 2:12 am
  #63  
Emilia
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Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

Juliana L Holm <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

    > Q <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I will be travelling to Rome in January with a 14 year old son. He
    >> hates museums, art galleries and the like. Can anyone suggest ideas
    >> of what might appeal to him when we get there so we both have a
    >> reasonable time?
    >
    > Is your son a reader? If so, you might consider getting him Dan
    > Brown's "Angels and Demons". It's a murder mystery that occurs in
    > Rome. You might find yourself heading from obelisk to obelisk and
    > from church to church looking for Bernini statues.
    >
    > He will particularly want to see St. Therese in ecstasy.

There now guided angels & demon tours well.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 2:15 am
  #64  
Minelli374
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Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

"Sacha" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:BD7725E4.4877%[email protected] k...
    > However, I don't know if airlines will
    > permit this any more?

It depends on the air company, first. For example Ryanair doesn't permit it
to children under 12


paola
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 2:33 am
  #65  
Jenn
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Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

Sacha wrote:

    > On 21/9/04 21:15, in article [email protected], "jenn"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Sacha wrote:
    >>>On 21/9/04 19:27, in article [email protected], "jenn"
    >>><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>Sacha wrote:
    >>><snip>
    >>>>>And in our case we'd ALL enjoyed the skiing and son was just being a normal
    >>>>>teenager - he also refused to visit Ephesus when we were in Turkey but that
    >>>>>was on a sailing trip along that coastline, the rest of which he'd
    >>>>>absolutely loved! We weren't doing a sightseeing tour as such on either
    >>>>>occasion because we tend not to do that kind of holiday.
    >>>>ah the joys of vacationing with teens LOL --
    >>>Precisely what the OP was getting at I'd say.
    >>well yeah and I gave him some good advice including not wasting pearls
    >>on swine -- teens who are not pleasant to travel with should not be
    >>taken wonderful places like say Paris -- and why should one have to put
    >>up with ugliness on the way to same place he enjoys?
    >>the world is full of jerks whose parents spent a lot of time struggling
    >>to entertain them
    >
    >
    > I don't know many parents, including myself, who think of their children as
    > swine.
    > But the world is indeed, full of jerks. Including apparently, this group.

you are perhaps unfamiliar with the phrase 'pearls before swine' and
thus take umbrage because of your linquistic skills?

I concede that a European parent dragging a snotty teen to Paris on a
vacation is not making the same sort of investment that an American
parent would be -- and thus there is more excuse for wasting the effort
- the effort being so much less. [and the inconvenience of finding
supervision at home factors in] But a teen who has to be carefully
managed and entertained might be better off left at home if that can be
done. Providing treats and expensive opportunities for ungrateful jerks
is what helps them grow from swinish teens to swinish adults. The world
is too full of overindulgent children.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 2:34 am
  #66  
Jenn
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Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

Q wrote:

    > Thank you for these responses. I should have added that he equates old
    > things with museums. He says one old building/ruin is one too many. History
    > as such is a no go area.

that really does boil it down to two options then:

1. put HIM in charge of figuring out what he wants to do
2. make it a 'no go' trip for him


    >
    > "anonymous" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>Hi,
    >>actually you might be suprised what he finds he thinks is interesting. :-}
    >>>>>I will be travelling to Rome in January with a 14 year old son. He
    >
    > hates
    >
    >>>>>museums, art galleries and the like. Can anyone suggest ideas of what
    >
    > might
    >
    >>>>>appeal to him when we get there so we both have a reasonable time?
    >>in Rome I spent a day (at 14) just walking around with a map and a few
    >>million lira (about 10$us).... I -did- make it back to the hotel
    >
    > unassisted.
    >
    >>>A visit to Anzio. Show him how many Yanks and Brit.s died liberating
    >>>Rome.
    >>a must
    >>>A smack on the head using Frommer can be used to control a 14 year
    >>>old. :-)
    >
    >
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 3:55 am
  #67  
nitram
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:12:18 GMT, "minelli374" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >"Sacha" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    >news:BD77251C.4875%[email protected]. uk...
    >> I think there's some misunderstanding here and if so it's probably because
    >I
    >> wasn't clear enough. I'm not suggesting just leaving a child and going
    >off
    >> for the whole day so that he is alone.
    >Yeah, I misunderstood -I apologize.
    >> But for something like the Vatican museum and Sistine chapel, I'd say the
    >> only choice is he goes with them or stays in the hotel. That took us over
    >3
    >> hours, I think and another time, and if possible, I'd visit the Sistine
    >> Chapel only, frankly.
    >I remember only 3 hrs of queue outside and the faster possible visit indoor.

I remember the Sistine Chapel being so crowded with Japanese, that I
could lift my feet off the ground without falling down.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:23 am
  #68  
Sacha
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

On 22/9/04 15:12, in article [email protected],
"minelli374" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    > "Sacha" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    > news:BD77251C.4875%[email protected] k...
    >
    >> I think there's some misunderstanding here and if so it's probably because
    > I
    >> wasn't clear enough. I'm not suggesting just leaving a child and going
    > off
    >> for the whole day so that he is alone.
    >
    > Yeah, I misunderstood -I apologize.

No problem.
    >
    >> But for something like the Vatican museum and Sistine chapel, I'd say the
    >> only choice is he goes with them or stays in the hotel. That took us over
    > 3
    >> hours, I think and another time, and if possible, I'd visit the Sistine
    >> Chapel only, frankly.
    >
    > I remember only 3 hrs of queue outside and the faster possible visit indoor.
    > :)
    >
    > paola
    >
    >
I was on a tour with pre-paid tickets but we did have to wait to get in -
about half an hour I think. We were very aware of being either pushed on or
held back according to how many people were in the Sistine Chapel, which
comes at the very end. And once you get into that, of course you want to
dawdle, gaze and wonder. And the guides are tying to get you out as quickly
as possible.......
I think it may well be a good idea to go very early in the morning, rather
like going to the Accademia to see the David in Firenze. You might get less
people and a little more time to see the Chapel, perhaps.
--

Sacha
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:28 am
  #69  
Sacha
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

On 22/9/04 15:33, in article [email protected], "jenn"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Sacha wrote:
    >
    >> On 21/9/04 21:15, in article [email protected], "jenn"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> Sacha wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> On 21/9/04 19:27, in article [email protected], "jenn"
    >>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> Sacha wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> <snip>
    >>>>
    >>>>>> And in our case we'd ALL enjoyed the skiing and son was just being a
    >>>>>> normal
    >>>>>> teenager - he also refused to visit Ephesus when we were in Turkey but
    >>>>>> that
    >>>>>> was on a sailing trip along that coastline, the rest of which he'd
    >>>>>> absolutely loved! We weren't doing a sightseeing tour as such on either
    >>>>>> occasion because we tend not to do that kind of holiday.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> ah the joys of vacationing with teens LOL --
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Precisely what the OP was getting at I'd say.
    >>>
    >>> well yeah and I gave him some good advice including not wasting pearls
    >>> on swine -- teens who are not pleasant to travel with should not be
    >>> taken wonderful places like say Paris -- and why should one have to put
    >>> up with ugliness on the way to same place he enjoys?
    >>>
    >>> the world is full of jerks whose parents spent a lot of time struggling
    >>> to entertain them
    >>
    >>
    >> I don't know many parents, including myself, who think of their children as
    >> swine.
    >> But the world is indeed, full of jerks. Including apparently, this group.
    >
    > you are perhaps unfamiliar with the phrase 'pearls before swine' and
    > thus take umbrage because of your linquistic skills?

You are perhaps just rather rude. On second thoughts - no 'perhaps' about
it.
    >
    > I concede that a European parent dragging a snotty teen to Paris on a
    > vacation is not making the same sort of investment that an American
    > parent would be -- and thus there is more excuse for wasting the effort
    > - the effort being so much less. [and the inconvenience of finding
    > supervision at home factors in] But a teen who has to be carefully
    > managed and entertained might be better off left at home if that can be
    > done. Providing treats and expensive opportunities for ungrateful jerks
    > is what helps them grow from swinish teens to swinish adults. The world
    > is too full of overindulgent children.

The parents of this particular child have explained their reasons for having
their child with them on this particular leg of their journey and asked for
assistance. All you've done is sneer.

Assuming that you mean 'indulged children', one can only assume that your
parents spoiled you dreadfully.
--

Sacha
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:46 am
  #70  
nitram
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:23:52 +0100, Sacha
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >I think it may well be a good idea to go very early in the morning, rather
    >like going to the Accademia to see the David in Firenze. You might get less
    >people and a little more time to see the Chapel, perhaps.

IME the best time to go is just before they close for lunch, there's
nobody behind you pushing.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:50 am
  #71  
Sacha
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

On 22/9/04 18:46, in article [email protected],
"[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 18:23:52 +0100, Sacha
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >> I think it may well be a good idea to go very early in the morning, rather
    >> like going to the Accademia to see the David in Firenze. You might get less
    >> people and a little more time to see the Chapel, perhaps.
    >
    > IME the best time to go is just before they close for lunch, there's
    > nobody behind you pushing.

Ah, lunch. Of course! Silly Io!
--

Sacha
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:50 am
  #72  
Mxsmanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

minelli374 writes:

    > You are crazy! I would never let a 14y.o. boy alone in Rome! You don't know
    > which kind of people are in those zone of Italy! I'm afraid my-self to walk
    > there, expecially at night.

Do you watch a lot of TV?

I've not been to Rome, but I see seven- and eight-year-olds riding the
Métro alone in Paris and they seem to do just fine.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:51 am
  #73  
Mxsmanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

minelli374 writes:

    > I live near Milan and I wouldn't suggest anyone to let a boy alone in an
    > Italian big city. People are not very polite, traffic jam is really
    > dangerous because we don't obey limit and traffic rules and police control
    > il very poor.
    > Italian drivers don't respect light, never stop at crossowalk and so,
    > expecially in the south of the Country.
    > It's plenty of immigrants who spend their days drinkin', pissin' and hanging
    > around.
    > Then you have to consider that people have a strong accent there and the 14
    > y.o boy doesn't know a word of Italian.

You make it sound like 14-year-olds are mentally retarded. I think most
of them can handle rudeness and can figure out when to cross a street.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:53 am
  #74  
Jenn
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

[email protected] wrote:

    > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:12:18 GMT, "minelli374" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>"Sacha" <[email protected]> ha scritto nel messaggio
    >>news:BD77251C.4875%[email protected] .uk...
    >>>I think there's some misunderstanding here and if so it's probably because
    >>I
    >>>wasn't clear enough. I'm not suggesting just leaving a child and going
    >>off
    >>>for the whole day so that he is alone.
    >>Yeah, I misunderstood -I apologize.
    >>>But for something like the Vatican museum and Sistine chapel, I'd say the
    >>>only choice is he goes with them or stays in the hotel. That took us over
    >>3
    >>>hours, I think and another time, and if possible, I'd visit the Sistine
    >>>Chapel only, frankly.
    >>I remember only 3 hrs of queue outside and the faster possible visit indoor.
    >
    >
    > I remember the Sistine Chapel being so crowded with Japanese, that I
    > could lift my feet off the ground without falling down.

but Japanese tourists zip through any museum like the proverbial X
through a goose --- wait 5 minutes and they are gone -- in the Sistine,
we always hover near the benches along the edge and then sit down when
someone moves on -- the ceiling is hard to appreciate unless you are
lying on the floor [strictly prohibited] or sitting on the benches
leaning back -- the older you get the harder it is to see it while standing.
 
Old Sep 22nd 2004, 5:54 am
  #75  
Mxsmanic
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Teenagers in Rome

[email protected] writes:

    > The photos don't do it justice.

So someone photoshopped everything out except a couple scraps from the
foundations?

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
 

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